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Why start with Paul, not Chandler?
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rvwink
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12/10/2011  10:57 AM
If the goal is to win a championship, Chandler fixes a lot more than Paul does for the Knicks. If you get Paul, the Knick's weak interior defense remains in place for opponents to take advantage of. Dallas has been a powerful offensive team, unable to seriously compete for an NBA championship BC. (Before Chandler that is) It would seem that the Mavericks pointed to way toward the Knick's acquiring Chandler. Do you agree or disagree that Chandler seems a much more advantageous acquisition for the Knicks than Paul?
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CashMoney
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12/10/2011  11:01 AM
The Chandler signing is definately more advantageous. The Knicks lacked size and an inside defensive presence. Chandler solves the problem. Melo creates his own shots and doesn't need a PG to feed him. You can say the same thing about STAT. The Knicks don't need a superstar PG, but decent PG who can play some D, knock down the 3 and run the offense efficiently. I would have been more than happy to have Paul on the Knicks but I'm much more happy with the Chandler signing.
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Rookie
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12/10/2011  11:05 AM
most teams in the NBA do not have a PG that can stop the elite PG's in the game from scoring....now, they will run smack into a 7'1" beast with Amare and Melo hawking them from behind. Team Defense is the key here and players knowing their assignments. We are in win now mode and not chasing next year. Next year we can concentrate on adding needed depth....it's good to be a NYK fan again! I like the signing
Nalod
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12/10/2011  11:09 AM
Creating own shot is stagnant and makes everyones job harder.

Ball movement is the key to easy baskets and MDA needs a strong facilitator.

Does not have to be a star PG to do this. Look what he did with Felton last year. After 13 games he thrived feeding the team.

Nash became a two time MVP in his system.

I would not discount TD if he can run the system. He has the physical tools to run the system.

We asked him to run the pt last year and it was not a good situation with new players and him injured.

Im not advocating for him, and I don't know if he can do it, but he will get a chance.

Billups has a nice resume and he was effective but we basically did not run SSOL at the end of the season due to injury and they guys were run down.

New season.

And, its gonna be ugly for a while.
Rookie
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12/10/2011  11:14 AM
Nalod wrote:

New season.

And, its gonna be ugly for a while.

my biggest concern is the schedule and keeping everyone fresh and healthy for the playoffs.
BigSm00th
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12/10/2011  11:18 AM
Rookie wrote:most teams in the NBA do not have a PG that can stop the elite PG's in the game from scoring....now, they will run smack into a 7'1" beast with Amare and Melo hawking them from behind. Team Defense is the key here and players knowing their assignments. We are in win now mode and not chasing next year. Next year we can concentrate on adding needed depth....it's good to be a NYK fan again! I like the signing

not to mention douglas plays excellent D on opposing PGs.

#Knickstaps
CrushAlot
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12/10/2011  11:21 AM
BigSm00th wrote:
Rookie wrote:most teams in the NBA do not have a PG that can stop the elite PG's in the game from scoring....now, they will run smack into a 7'1" beast with Amare and Melo hawking them from behind. Team Defense is the key here and players knowing their assignments. We are in win now mode and not chasing next year. Next year we can concentrate on adding needed depth....it's good to be a NYK fan again! I like the signing

not to mention douglas plays excellent D on opposing PGs.

And you hear nothing but positives in regards to his tremendous work ethic and character. He deserves the shot.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Bonn1997
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12/10/2011  2:27 PM
We could easily have had both if it hadn't been for the Melo trade
nixluva
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12/10/2011  2:33 PM
If we had gotten CP3 there would've been tons of complaints about how much it cost us and the fact that CP3 has high risk Knee issues. In the end the front office did their due diligence. There was a slim chance to get Paul. They gave their best offer and waited as long as necessary and then went to plan B. This is no different than the Lebron sweepstakes. Same approach. Go for the best player available, but when it fall apart go to plan B with a vengeance. They executed their tasks flawlessly both times.
tj23
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12/10/2011  2:35 PM
Nalod wrote:Creating own shot is stagnant and makes everyones job harder.

Ball movement is the key to easy baskets and MDA needs a strong facilitator.

Does not have to be a star PG to do this. Look what he did with Felton last year. After 13 games he thrived feeding the team.

Nash became a two time MVP in his system.

I would not discount TD if he can run the system. He has the physical tools to run the system.

We asked him to run the pt last year and it was not a good situation with new players and him injured.

Im not advocating for him, and I don't know if he can do it, but he will get a chance.

Billups has a nice resume and he was effective but we basically did not run SSOL at the end of the season due to injury and they guys were run down.

New season.

And, its gonna be ugly for a while.

Exactly. I'm afraid this group is one of the less intelligent cores in the league and we have no facilitators. Fields will still be lost in iso bball. Bibby won't help. Shumpert might get to the basket but how good of a passer is he exactly? We overpaid for our 3rd "star" and now we are left with an unbalanced team with an ugly backcourt, 2 scorers who are almost redundant, and no pnr off.
tj23
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12/10/2011  2:37 PM
BigSm00th wrote:
Rookie wrote:most teams in the NBA do not have a PG that can stop the elite PG's in the game from scoring....now, they will run smack into a 7'1" beast with Amare and Melo hawking them from behind. Team Defense is the key here and players knowing their assignments. We are in win now mode and not chasing next year. Next year we can concentrate on adding needed depth....it's good to be a NYK fan again! I like the signing

not to mention douglas plays excellent D on opposing PGs.


No he doesn't. I'm sorry but the guy is almost always behind the play. He can be a tremendous defender but he has to learn discipline.
nixluva
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12/10/2011  2:43 PM
tj23 wrote:
Nalod wrote:Creating own shot is stagnant and makes everyones job harder.

Ball movement is the key to easy baskets and MDA needs a strong facilitator.

Does not have to be a star PG to do this. Look what he did with Felton last year. After 13 games he thrived feeding the team.

Nash became a two time MVP in his system.

I would not discount TD if he can run the system. He has the physical tools to run the system.

We asked him to run the pt last year and it was not a good situation with new players and him injured.

Im not advocating for him, and I don't know if he can do it, but he will get a chance.

Billups has a nice resume and he was effective but we basically did not run SSOL at the end of the season due to injury and they guys were run down.

New season.

And, its gonna be ugly for a while.

Exactly. I'm afraid this group is one of the less intelligent cores in the league and we have no facilitators. Fields will still be lost in iso bball. Bibby won't help. Shumpert might get to the basket but how good of a passer is he exactly? We overpaid for our 3rd "star" and now we are left with an unbalanced team with an ugly backcourt, 2 scorers who are almost redundant, and no pnr off.

It is strange to have a team with no PURE passer on the roster, but I wouldn't exaggerate how that will effect the teams chances of winning. There are other examples of teams playing well without a bonafide pure PG leading the team.
Also it's still VERY early. They could still end up adding another PG if it becomes necessary.

What has happened tho is that this team is MUCH improved defensively. This is a much bigger team now after the trades. I would say that this team is more in the Lakers size range now. We have a 6-7 SG in Landry and a 6-6 PG in Iman, if we go big.
Bonn1997
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12/10/2011  2:53 PM
tj23 wrote:
Nalod wrote:Creating own shot is stagnant and makes everyones job harder.

Ball movement is the key to easy baskets and MDA needs a strong facilitator.

Does not have to be a star PG to do this. Look what he did with Felton last year. After 13 games he thrived feeding the team.

Nash became a two time MVP in his system.

I would not discount TD if he can run the system. He has the physical tools to run the system.

We asked him to run the pt last year and it was not a good situation with new players and him injured.

Im not advocating for him, and I don't know if he can do it, but he will get a chance.

Billups has a nice resume and he was effective but we basically did not run SSOL at the end of the season due to injury and they guys were run down.

New season.

And, its gonna be ugly for a while.

Exactly. I'm afraid this group is one of the less intelligent cores in the league and we have no facilitators. Fields will still be lost in iso bball. Bibby won't help. Shumpert might get to the basket but how good of a passer is he exactly? We overpaid for our 3rd "star" and now we are left with an unbalanced team with an ugly backcourt, 2 scorers who are almost redundant, and no pnr off.


I've been worried about that too. Our two top scorers are bad passers and do a lot of iso playing. You need your top scorers to be good passers and team play-makers. A Kobe-Gasol offense has the kind of flow that you need (and the Lakers are very fortunate the league saved them from their stupidity).
SupremeCommander
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12/10/2011  3:09 PM
tj23 wrote:
Nalod wrote:Creating own shot is stagnant and makes everyones job harder.

Ball movement is the key to easy baskets and MDA needs a strong facilitator.

Does not have to be a star PG to do this. Look what he did with Felton last year. After 13 games he thrived feeding the team.

Nash became a two time MVP in his system.

I would not discount TD if he can run the system. He has the physical tools to run the system.

We asked him to run the pt last year and it was not a good situation with new players and him injured.

Im not advocating for him, and I don't know if he can do it, but he will get a chance.

Billups has a nice resume and he was effective but we basically did not run SSOL at the end of the season due to injury and they guys were run down.

New season.

And, its gonna be ugly for a while.

Exactly. I'm afraid this group is one of the less intelligent cores in the league and we have no facilitators. Fields will still be lost in iso bball. Bibby won't help. Shumpert might get to the basket but how good of a passer is he exactly? We overpaid for our 3rd "star" and now we are left with an unbalanced team with an ugly backcourt, 2 scorers who are almost redundant, and no pnr off.

I share many of the same concerns, but not "the overpaying for the 3rd 'star'" bit... Chandler was Dallas' second best player in the playoffs. He'll be the Knicks' third and he's complimentary

Agree with the other bits

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
rvwink
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12/10/2011  4:14 PM
"Exactly. I'm afraid this group is one of the less intelligent cores in the league and we have no facilitators. Fields will still be lost in iso bball. Bibby won't help. Shumpert might get to the basket but how good of a passer is he exactly? We overpaid for our 3rd "star" and now we are left with an unbalanced team with an ugly backcourt, 2 scorers who are almost redundant, and no pnr off."

Amare was the star of the Phoenix team that came very close to winning the championship. Melo was the star of the Denver team and he had a very positive effect on that team's winning. Chandler was specifically the key that allowed Dallas to finally win a championship. So now you are worried that our core isn't intelligent enough? Be specific, who?

I don't agree with any of your "bits" either. Fields is most definitely not an iso player. He is an excellent team player with exceptional energy. Clearly you don't know how good a passer Shumpert is. Both Shumpert and Donnie Walsh thought he could handle the point guard position. what makes you think otherwise?

We didn't overpay for Chandler. Golden State was willing to pay more then the Knicks did, and Chandler declined to listen to the new offer. The Nets are paying more than what the Knicks paid for Nene.

What ugly back court? Fields was a highly successful player last year. You can't know how Shumpert will play, so calling it ugly is based on what insight? No Pnr? How do you know?

It seems to me that you simply have a "the sky is falling" mentality.
tj23
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12/10/2011  7:09 PM
Nah I like this team but I think it's better on paper than in actuality. Melo and stat NEED to play off each other. There's nothing really wrong with iso ball IF YOU PLAY CORRECTLY. Melo was lost against Boston when they doubled him. He HAS to make those passes. Fields struggled after the melo trade and must adapt. I really like iman but there's a lot riding on either him or Douglas developing. I don't think this team is a contender right now. I think they are very similar to the hawks.
rvwink
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12/10/2011  7:39 PM
"I like this team but I think it's better on paper than in actuality."

Its really hard to figure that information out. Its an extremely complicated calculation. Neither of us know whether Fields will return to the high level he played at earlier in the season and then get even better. Neither of us know whether Melo is a talented enough passer to successfully make pick and rolls plays with team mates. Neither of us know whether the Iman is as good as Donnie Walsh and MDA thought he was when they drafted him. I think we both know who Amare and Tyson are, and how valuable they both will be to this Knick team.

Miami was perhaps worse than people expected early in the season, and then they ended up doing quite well getting to the finals. It doesn't matter all that much how good the Knicks in the first half of the season. That's why I hope they play Iman a lot of minutes because he could become a valuable contributor later in the year. Ultimately I don't think they couldn't have picked a better team mate for Amare and Melo, then Tyson. I sincerely believe they will win at least one if not two rounds of the playoffs. If they play Boston in the play offs, I think they win this year. But I respect your right to think otherwise. Fact is we are just thinking we our guts, and neither have sufficient evidence to back up our opinions.
knicks1248
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12/10/2011  7:50 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/10/2011  7:52 PM
Melo avg 5 ast in the playoffs against boston, this guy can pass, im not sure what melo some of you were looking at.

MDA can turn any pg into a solid pg..

ES
nixluva
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12/10/2011  8:10 PM
I think the Knicks were very eager to get off the "next year" merry go round. I think they knew they weren't getting Paul and I think they looked at each other and said they didn't want to wait any longer. The need at Center was HUGE and with Tyson available that had to take priority. Paul was always a long shot fantasy.

Now this team seems set to be a deep playoff team. It's hard to know for sure, but I think it will work. Mainly cuz this team is set to be much improved defensively. This team will score regardless, but being able to get stops and turnovers is a big deal.
Bonn1997
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12/10/2011  8:11 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/10/2011  8:11 PM
knicks1248 wrote:Melo avg 5 ast in the playoffs against boston, this guy can pass, im not sure what melo some of you were looking at.

MDA can turn any pg into a solid pg..


I don't doubt that if you look at his whole 600 game career you'll find several 4 game samples with good assist numbers. That's a bad way to evaluate a player though.
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