One thing that I tried to stress was that the owners have used the financial downturn as a reason for the need to have drastic change but they know full well that things are already improving and that the new TV deal will make things even better! Also this is mostly about re-establishing control. The owners don't want the players to have any say in matters. They know they can't go back to the old days of locking players in so they've got this new tactic of limiting movement thru financial limits. They want to make it financially impossible for players to go where they want to. No more pairing up to form better teams by players and big market owners. Let's remember this is still owner vs big mkt owner too!

In the end tho players should take the deal. 50% of billions us better than 100% of nothing. Can't let pride cloud the truth. There will be other ways to make the owners pay for their hard stance.

nixluva wrote:I want to hear more details on the owners offer.

Stern said the owners went along with a proposal based on concepts suggested by Cohen, who spent three days presiding over talks two weeks ago and was invited back into the process by the union. Cohen presented "what ifs" that the owners accepted as framework for a 10-year deal, which included:

-- League Revenue Split: 49-to-51 percent range, which would be based on revenue performance. Union president Derek Fisher dismissed this, saying it is in reality a 50-50 deal because, "There's no way in the world we'd ever get to 51 percent. It's not a band." The players instead offered a 51-49 split of league revenue -- a 1.5 percent concession from their previous offer -- and said that one percent would be set aside for pension and medical benefits for retired players. Currently, pensions and retired player benefits are funded mostly by union dues.

-- Luxury Tax: Extra $1 for every $1 over tax threshold for teams who pay tax in three out of five years. The union wants 50 cents.

-- Mid-Level Exception: $5 million annually, with maximum length allowed per team alternating annually from four years to three years. And a "mini" Mid-Level Exception for luxury tax paying teams of $2.5 million annually with a two-year maximum. The union wants a full mid-level exception for all teams, with a maximum length of four years.

-- Sign and Trades: Not permitted for teams that are over tax threshold.

-- Luxury Tax "Cliff": Non-taxpaying teams that are eligible would share revenue from tax payments at a higher rate than those who are taxpayers.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball/nba-offers-players-deal-with-wednesday-deadline-1.3299972

AnubisADL wrote:The funny thing is that limiting player movement will just result in more Danny Granger's AND Andre Igoudala's getting max deals.

Ha, you're probably right. I look at those proposals and I think "is that really the best system they could come up with?". A shame as if they'd genuinely negotiated, the owners and players could have come up with much more inventive and beneficial system changes than they'll end up with.- it's pretty obvious the BRI split was all about money, and the system issues were actually all about jealousy- particularly of the Heat and the Lakers. Sad really- like i said in another thread, the lakers lose the ablity to do a S&T trade for Dwight Howard, lose the ability to replace their aging role players (stuck with a paltry 2.5 mil 2 year to offer FA's), get stung with a HUGE luxury tax bill, get stung again in 3 years with the extra tax punishment AND on top of that have to pay more to the other owners via revenue sharing. I'm sorry, but the other owners are essential stealing from them because they can't field a team as good as them. Sad.

But yep, players need to accept this crap deal, and hope either the owners will shoot themselves in the foot with stupid decision making (as they did following the 1999 CBA), or opt out in 6 years, by which time the worst hardline owners should have sold their teams by then for a big profit (which is really what this lockout was all about), and so maybe a more reasonable ownership will be in place. Also some owners have been so spiteful and short sighted, they'll suffer in the long term- guys like Dan Gilbert, who should have a nice crop of future stars if his drafting works out- shame he won't be able to keep them all due the CBA he pushed for just to get back at Lebron.

Banning luxury tax teams from S&T's is stupid- it means Orlando will have fewer offers to sift through for Dwight Howard, but it will affect very few players (when was the last time a top FA went to a luxury tax paying team via a S&T? Besides, I think the days where a lot of teams were over the luxury tax were just about coming to a close anyways, so the players are wasting time fighting over these kinds of issues. Fighting for the full MLE for tax paying teams is a waste of time too- the tax is so heavy (remember they get the added penalty after 3 years on top of the big sums anyway), that I don't think any luxury tax paying team would even use it.

If they put it to a vote of the players, the deal will be accepted.

Eddy Curry to the Knicks (HA!)
THE Marco jaric to Memphis
THE Kwame Brown to the Lakers
Shawn Marion to Mavs
Turkoglu to Suns (that can't be right)

Why on earth are either side pushing this irrelevant issue? Kind of shows boths sides have lost perspective and it's become more about one side trying to crush the other.

smackeddog wrote:Also, just out of curiosity- could the players accept the agreement Wednesday, then push for decertification? That way they could be playing and getting paid while the issue goes to court- not saying they should, I'm merely wondering.

ItalianStallion wrote:

nixluva wrote:

ItalianStallion wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:Its not sounding good. There seems to be more talk of decertification. It sounds like Hunter is spent. The only silver lining is MJ is getting called out for who he really is.

What's that?

A guy that has millions of dollars invested in a business and thinks he should be able to control his costs enough to make a profit from it. lmao

Please stop comparing the NBA to a regular business!!! These owners can sell their team at a MASSIVE profit anytime they want. I'm not talking about the newest owners who assumed the risk knowing they could make a profit or a suffer losses depending on the talent on the team. That's the thing tho, talent isn't guaranteed and it's limited in supply so not every team can have winning, profit generating talent!

So teams fight over the limited talent and that is the real reason teams lose and lose money. They can't legislate guaranteed profit or success in the way they've been trying. The answer to success for small markets is thru the draft and always has been. Just spending the most money doesn't guarantee titles or profits.

Owners plans won't work anyway. Forcing the players to swallow this CBA is a huge mistake too. The players are the product more than any other league. When u only have 5 men on the court 1 or 2 great players have a greater impact so you can't minimize them as you can in other sports. Owners are making a huge mistake.

The value of many basketball teams would fall sharply if the owners don't get the deal they want and continue to lose money as a result. It's not just a handful of badly managed teams that are losing money. That would be an acceptable situation. A new owner might be willing to buy a money losing team if he thought he could do a better job running it. He could also move the team to a different city. But the league as a whole is losing it's shirt. That means it's not a management issue. It's a system issue.

Imagine working for a company with 10 departments and each of them started to bid away employees from each other with higher salaries. That would be both retarded and financial suicide for the company. That's why it doesn't work that way. In most businesses, employees can move around a company and get promotions, but that only happens when it's in the best interests of the whole company, not just because an employee wants it.

So you really believe the LEAGUE is losing $300 mil as they claim? I'm telling you right now that the LEAGUE isn't losing money only certain teams are losing money and some teams are very close to being profitable and their only problem is the lack of a talent that would draw more fans. This is not to mention that you have no idea what others expenses each team has and if they're running efficient operations or wasting funds!

Here's the kicker! Teams can hide money very easily and they do! The Knicks a haven't been required to even state exactly how much they make from TV! Instead they get to estimate it based on an old Lakers TV deal. The top teams likely make enough to easily cover the $300 mil losses claimed by the league.

The owners already have been lowering team payrolls and the trend is going to continue. The league will get big new TV deal and the owners will have set themselves up to rake in the cash. All of this has been orchestrated for years!