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STern announcing cancellation of more games saying 82 game season not possible now
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CrushAlot
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10/28/2011  6:37 PM
Also said that the owners would have to recalculate their offer based on the enormous losses they are facing.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
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martin
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10/28/2011  6:38 PM
Stern: "Its not practical, possible or prudent to have a full season now..There will not be a full NBA season under any circumstance."
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Silverfuel
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10/28/2011  7:02 PM
Wow, doesn't this ****ing suck!
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
arkrud
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10/28/2011  7:15 PM
So now it is Owners against Agents.
No more idiots in the room.
Both sides can project 20 years in the future and so one season is irrelevant.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
CrushAlot
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10/28/2011  7:40 PM
ChrisMannixSI Chris Mannix
Sources briefed on the process expect next wave of cancellations to include games through the Christmas holidays.
» ChrisMannixSI Chris Mannix
Next key date will be in early November, when the league can no longer feasibly start a season by mid-December.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
nixluva
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10/28/2011  8:42 PM
This is just ridiculous!!! To not be able to close a $100 mil gap at this point makes no sense. Do the owners and players not see how bad this is for them? Neither side will come out of this looking good. They're blowing all the goodwill they built up from such a good season last year. It's sad and I'm sure fans are getting angry with the games! Saying they are close and then breaking off talks over and over.
CrushAlot
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10/28/2011  9:46 PM
It seems like the tone last night was that this would get done. The players were locked in at 53%BRI for a long time. They dropped to 52. It seems like the logical compromise that should have been proposed by the owners was 51%. Neither side is going to make up the money lost by their rigid stance. This is just stupid at this point.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
nixluva
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10/28/2011  10:06 PM
CrushAlot wrote:It seems like the tone last night was that this would get done. The players were locked in at 53%BRI for a long time. They dropped to 52. It seems like the logical compromise that should have been proposed by the owners was 51%. Neither side is going to make up the money lost by their rigid stance. This is just stupid at this point.

The players came way down on BRI and gave back $800,000 on MLE and only 3 yrs max on MLE. So far I don't see where the owners are really making a real effort to compromise. Understand that back in 2005 the players split in BRI was 53%! The owners agreed to raising it to 57%. Why did the owners do this if they weren't profitable during the last CBA where the players got 53%? See the owners had other concerns namely small market owners were trying to block big market owners from stealing their players. It's never been about owners vs players! It's always been owners vs owners and still is. Players already gave back the $280mil they got in the last CBA so all this arguing is not about that. The small market beats the big market if they can shrink players take at the same time get a harder cap which will stifle the big markets from building powerhouse teams.
The players are merely unwitting pawns in this ongoing battle.

ItalianStallion
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10/28/2011  10:39 PM
nixluva wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:It seems like the tone last night was that this would get done. The players were locked in at 53%BRI for a long time. They dropped to 52. It seems like the logical compromise that should have been proposed by the owners was 51%. Neither side is going to make up the money lost by their rigid stance. This is just stupid at this point.

The players came way down on BRI and gave back $800,000 on MLE and only 3 yrs max on MLE. So far I don't see where the owners are really making a real effort to compromise. Understand that back in 2005 the players split in BRI was 53%! The owners agreed to raising it to 57%. Why did the owners do this if they weren't profitable during the last CBA where the players got 53%? See the owners had other concerns namely small market owners were trying to block big market owners from stealing their players. It's never been about owners vs players! It's always been owners vs owners and still is. Players already gave back the $280mil they got in the last CBA so all this arguing is not about that. The small market beats the big market if they can shrink players take at the same time get a harder cap which will stifle the big markets from building powerhouse teams.
The players are merely unwitting pawns in this ongoing battle.


A lot of the owners probably weren't making money at 53%, but the economy, stock market etc.. were booming and prices of businesses were rising. So even though they were losing cash, they felt OK about it because the team was worth more. The problem is that it was a lot like the DOT.COM bubble in the late 90s where stupid people kept paying higher and higher prices for businesses that were not worth it. It was the greater fool theory. Then it all crashed. That's where the owner are now. They want earnings and they are 100% justified in that.

The implication that the players have done a lot of bending and that the owners haven't done enough misses the whole point. The owners were losing a ton of money at 57% and will be barely profitable at 50%. So in reality, even a 50-50 split could be a bad deal for the owners unless there is huge growth in revenue in coming years. That may be likely, but it's not guaranteed in this economy.

The NBA is NOT a wealth transfer system where the "super rich" owners are required give welfare checks to the "merely rich" players. It's a business where owners put up hundreds of millions of dollars of capital that could easily be invested in stocks, bonds, or other businesses earning them a lot more money instead. To make it worthwhile to own a basketball team, it has to have as good a chance of earning a profit as those other investments.

Nothing else should even be on the table until the revenue split is at a level that makes it fairly likely that the owners in aggregate will make an adequate profit in the typical economic environment. Under that scenario, well run teams in major markets will do great, well run teams in smaller markets will do OK, and poorly run teams will lose money.

It's the players have to give more.

I know it's hard to root for super rich guys, but this is basic business and economics. The rich make investments, start businesses, and create the jobs and goods/services for the rest of us. They do it to make even more money. If they don't make more money, they take their ball and go home. The rest of us work hard, save, invest etc.. and slowly move up the ladder until we can become owners and on and on up we go. Just like MJ used to be a player and is now an owner etc...

Nalod
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10/28/2011  10:56 PM

The players are merely unwitting pawns in this ongoing battle.

You really think they are victims don't you?

"occupy NBA"!

CrushAlot
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10/28/2011  11:26 PM
Nalod wrote:
The players are merely unwitting pawns in this ongoing battle.

You really think they are victims don't you?

"occupy NBA"!

The best option for the players economically no matter how this deal breaks down is to play in the NBA. They can withhold the 'product' but they don't have the assets that the owners have. At some point it seems like the owners need to accept the concessions that the players made and start the season. There had to be changes made but at some point you have to treat the other side with some respect and dignity.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
CrushAlot
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10/28/2011  11:26 PM
Nalod wrote:
The players are merely unwitting pawns in this ongoing battle.

You really think they are victims don't you?

"occupy NBA"!

The best option for the players economically no matter how this deal breaks down is to play in the NBA. They can withhold the 'product' but they don't have the assets that the owners have. At some point it seems like the owners need to accept the concessions that the players made and start the season. There had to be changes made but at some point you have to treat the other side with some respect and dignity.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
nixluva
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10/29/2011  12:19 AM
Nalod wrote:
The players are merely unwitting pawns in this ongoing battle.

You really think they are victims don't you?

"occupy NBA"!

How do you continually miss the main point being made every time? It's not about players being victims! It's about the fallacy that this is a fight between the players and owners!

Missed point #1.
the owners felt comfortable in giving the players 57% when they had previously had a smaller share. If all those teams were hemorrhaging money or they anticipated that they would, the owners never would've given the players that %.

Missed point #2.
the owners gave the players 57% cuz they weren't concerned about the split but were more concerned with limiting player movement from small to big markets. They felt limiting the top salaries and increasing Luxury Tax would slow down the stars moving to big markets and they made the additional error of putting in the MLE.

All the CBA changes the owners made last time and the impasse of these negotiations are about owners vs owners. Split of BRI Up or down is a smokescreen. The only real way to guarantee a small market profit is to guarantee they have one of the few marquee talents! If that elite talent bunches up on just a few teams it guarantees a lot of teams losing money or unable to turn a profit. NO Stars, no profits for small market teams.

Nalod
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10/29/2011  2:23 AM    LAST EDITED: 10/29/2011  2:28 AM
nixluva wrote:
Nalod wrote:
The players are merely unwitting pawns in this ongoing battle.

You really think they are victims don't you?

"occupy NBA"!

How do you continually miss the main point being made every time? It's not about players being victims! It's about the fallacy that this is a fight between the players and owners!

Missed point #1.
the owners felt comfortable in giving the players 57% when they had previously had a smaller share. If all those teams were hemorrhaging money or they anticipated that they would, the owners never would've given the players that %.

Missed point #2.
the owners gave the players 57% cuz they weren't concerned about the split but were more concerned with limiting player movement from small to big markets. They felt limiting the top salaries and increasing Luxury Tax would slow down the stars moving to big markets and they made the additional error of putting in the MLE.

All the CBA changes the owners made last time and the impasse of these negotiations are about owners vs owners. Split of BRI Up or down is a smokescreen. The only real way to guarantee a small market profit is to guarantee they have one of the few marquee talents! If that elite talent bunches up on just a few teams it guarantees a lot of teams losing money or unable to turn a profit. NO Stars, no profits for small market teams.

Oh jeez, this again!

Yes, nobody says your wrong.

Pt 1: The owners made a mistake. They used to put Cocaine in Coca COla. Now they don't. Things change. Just cuz they did once don't make it right.

Pt 2. They don't like stars leaving and want to inhibit without compensation. We get it.

Owners don't agree across the board. We get it. We get it.

Nix, the players are not being punished for doing something wrong. Its just math. They don't owner the team. They get paid what the man says. If they don't like it then they negotiate the best they can. Nothing more. and the more games missed, the less the players will get. Right or wrong this is how its been put on the table from day one. miss games is missed revenue.

It gets real ugly going forward. Nobody should be surprised. Stern has been communicating this for some time.

nixluva
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10/29/2011  3:21 AM
The rules the owners put in before didn't stop players from moving and IMO they shouldn't be able to restrict movement. The owners that lost money took a risk and partly due to the recession, partly due to their own incompetence and mismanagement they lost money. The $100 mil they're fighting over along with the Hard Cap still won't guarantee all teams make a profit!

Stern and the owners will be successful in reducing the players share and contract lengths but the real issue is how will they keep CP3 in NO, Howard in Orl and how do they make teams like the Bobcats successful? You do realize that owners already trimmed payrolls on most of the teams in the league? In 2012-13 only 4 teams are currently scheduled to be at or over the cap! EVERYONE ELSE IS BELOW THE CAP! Revenue sharing would take care of any balance owed to the players if the owners were serious about dealing with their problems. As for small markets becoming profitable that should be addressed by changing the draft to favor the bad teams even more. They need cheap talent to work with. Great talent at a discount is what the draft and rookie scale is all about.

Nalod
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10/29/2011  9:50 AM
Nix, I think the trifecta of a player leaving and getting to a city he wants, getting the money he wants, and walk into a fully stacked winning team is the problem. Players say they want to "win" but they want to get paid too. I think a franchise tag for two years and if a player wants to leave he can force a trade. If a player wants to forgo the money to win, then maybe that can work.

Don't you think if they owners gain $100 mil they stand a better chance than not?

STern announcing cancellation of more games saying 82 game season not possible now

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