[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

The Payroll and Competitive Balance Myth
Author Thread
nixluva
Posts: 56258
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
10/26/2011  1:20 PM
This ESPN article by Tom Haberstroh is really at the heart of the matter and many of us have been saying the same thing. The Draft is how you start a franchise on the path to profitability in a small market. Being wise with spending and use the draft. If the league focuses more attention on this it could help teams in trouble. There's a chart on the website so go check it out.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/32841/the-payroll-and-competitive-balance-myth

If you followed NBA commissioner David Stern’s media tour last week, you probably heard him recite the following statement ad nauseum in one form or another:

The Lakers have a payroll of $110 million while the Sacramento Kings only have a payroll of $45 million. This is a real competitive balance issue that desperately needs fixing.

Stern is incredibly gifted when it comes to these things. He knows that the casual fan will look at those two figures and arrive at the tidy conclusion that the Kings simply cannot compete with the Lakers. I mean, look at that payroll disparity! Stern’s pitch is that the success of a team is directly tied to how much money they spend. And if you look at his example, how could you possibly disagree with him?

But then you look at the standings.

You notice that Stern did not sell the unfairness of payroll disparity by pitting the Orlando Magic against the Chicago Bulls. The Magic spent $110 million last season (the same as the Lakers) and the Bulls shelled out a lowly $55 million, or half as much as its Eastern conference foe. And the result? The poor Bulls won more games than any other team and reached the Eastern Conference Finals. The Magic? The nine-figure payroll bought them an embarrassing first-round exit.

If you scan through team payrolls, you begin to see that money doesn’t decide games. If cash was king, then the Bulls wouldn’t have a chance against the Magic. If spending power ruled all, how do we explain the Utah Jazz and their $80 million payroll winning 16 fewer games than the Oklahoma City Thunder, who spent just $58 million? The Toronto Raptors boasted a higher payroll than the Miami Heat, so why did the Raps lose 60 games while the Heat came within two games of a title?

The NBA has brought up the fact that the last four champions are big major market teams who spent a lot of money. While this is factually accurate, four consecutive years does not make a trend. Consider this: the previous five champions were smaller market teams (Spurs, Pistons and Heat). Evidently, the lesson changes as you slide the endpoints to make your argument. If we look over the past decade, the tally marks for titles between big market teams and small markets teams are equal at five.

The NBA is a complicated place, but when you cut through the rhetoric and look at the track record of the league, this much is clear: payroll doesn’t matter nearly as much it seems.

It’s about the draft, not dollars
Want to win games? Win the draft first. There you’ll find the breeding ground for championship teams. Dirk Nowitzki was drafted by the Mavericks (in a draft-day trade). Tim Duncan was drafted by the Spurs. Kobe Bryant was drafted by the Lakers (in a draft-day trade). Michael Jordan was drafted by the Bulls. Dwyane Wade and the Heat, Hakeem and the Rockets, so on and so forth.

There are some rare exceptions (e.g. the 2004 Pistons), but if you flip through through the title winners every season, you’ll find that the championship blueprint usually begins with hitting a home run on draft night.

To see why this is the case, consider the paths of two conference finalists last season. Going forward, the Bulls and the Thunder have a leg up on just about every team in the NBA, not because they spend a lot (which they don’t), but because they drafted a superstar and don’t have pay him superstar money.

Thanks to the rookie scale that keeps salaries artificially depressed for several years, the Thunder paid Kevin Durant, the NBA’s leading scorer, about a third of what the Jazz paid for Andrei Kirilenko last season. Similarly, the Bulls paid Derrick Rose, the league’s official MVP, about a third of what the Magic paid Gilbert Arenas, the league’s unofficial LVP.

Paying Durant $6 million is an enormous competitive advantage on its own, but the real benefit here is that it frees up Oklahoma City GM Sam Presti to spend money elsewhere when he needs to. The opportunity cost of paying Arenas is that you forfeit the chance to use that money on other things (like a James Harden or a Serge Ibaka or a Russell Westbrook).

This concept isn’t unique to NBA general managers. Do you pony up $30,000 for a fancy car or do you buy a slightly less fancy car and deposit the leftover cash into a savings account to help send your child to college? NBA teams face a similar choice when choosing to spend their money.

With a soft cap on payroll, it becomes imperative to spend your money wisely, and if you study successful franchises, those who spend money wisely seem to be bargain shopping at the draft.

The data reveals the truth
So, a couple franchises got lucky with drafting superstars and now they happen to possess bright futures and tight budgets. Big whoop, you say.

I’m with you. Just like I’m not satisfied with reducing a complicated topic to a line about the Lakers and Kings, pointing to the draft successes of the Thunder and the Bulls shouldn’t sit well with the rational reader.

So let’s roll up our sleeves and dig deeper. Many people have claimed that the draft is incredibly important to long-term success but the trouble has been backing up that assertion with hard data. Before we can talk about the significance of the draft, we first must have the tools to accurately measure draft success and go beyond anecdotal evidence.

To that end, it’s worth pulling up the draft value database behind the D.R.A.F.T. Initiative project from a couple years ago, which was an ESPN.com Insider series that analyzed the value of the NBA draft. The study tried to learn about the draft by tracking the career paths and production of every player drafted since 1989.

One of the discoveries during that project was that the Spurs and Lakers were huge winners on draft day. Apparently, finding Tony Parker at No. 28, Manu Ginobili at the end of the second round and plucking Kobe and Andrew Bynum without picking in the single-digits helps lay down a dynasty foundation. But if you look at the list of the most efficient drafting teams (as in, making the most out of where they picked), you’ll notice that the best drafting teams tend to also be the best teams of the past decade. On the flipside, the basement-dwellers of recent times found themselves routinely striking out on the draft.

Here is an updated chart of the best drafting teams and the worst drafting teams over the past decade, along with their winning percentage and dollars spent over that time. Also, it is color-coded to make visualizing the data easier (greater the number, greener the cell).
Chart
What do we find? New Orleans, San Antonio and Cleveland have done the most with the draft over the past decade. The Hornets built a perennial playoff team on the cheap by picking Chris Paul at No. 4 and finding an All-Star at No. 18 in David West. They squeezed out 18.5 wins above what we’d expect from their draft slots over the years. The Spurs built a championship core out of their picks. And, yes, the Cavaliers may have lucked into LeBron James, but they also found Anderson Varejao at No. 30 and Carlos Boozer in the second round.

More importantly, notice that four of the top six drafting teams have won a title this past decade while the other two have come very close to playing for the Larry O’Brien trophy.

And the worst drafting teams? Yikes. The Clippers, Timberwolves, Wizards and Bobcats represent the doormats of the NBA and it’s no surprise that they’ve been drafting terribly as well. Many of these teams have been gift-wrapped prime opportunities to draft franchise players, and instead, they selected Adam Morrison and Jonny Flynn. Even drafting an MVP in Rose didn't completely erase all the misfires the Bulls made in the early 2000s.

Now, the colors tell an important story. Strictly looking at the draft value and win percentage, you’ll notice lost of greens clustered together and reds clustered together. This hints that the two go pretty much hand in hand. If you draft efficiently, chances are you’ll be in good hands.

But look at the third column of data which tells us how much money they’ve spent over that time. It’s subtle, but the pigments aren’t as closely connected.

What we’re seeing is a strong tie between drafting efficiency and win percentage, but not so much for winning and payroll. In fact, draft efficiency alone explains 34 percent of the variability in a team’s record over the past decade. How much does payroll explain?

Just 7 percent -- a tiny amount in comparison.

Many economists have studied the issue of payroll and competitive balance. Andrew Zimbalist, an economist at Smith College who has written several books on sports economics, recently told the New York Times, “The statistical correlation between payroll and win percentage is practically nonexistent.” That 7 percent is what he’s talking about.

What it means for competitive balance
Of course, we knew all along that the draft is important, but now we see it as an absolutely critical ingredient to the championship recipe. If payroll predicted championships, then the Knicks would have a dynasty by now. Instead, they largely ignored the draft, sold the lottery picks to other teams and look what it got them: a blood-red cell in the winning percentage column.

In order to be competitive in the NBA, you don’t necessarily need to have a lot of money, but you absolutely need to be smart with your money. And the smart money tends to be in the draft. When Stern says the system is broken because of the disparity in payroll, feel free to listen to the Lakers-Kings comparison but also note that the Thunder has been able to fast track success in a supposedly broken system.

Stern strives for a hard cap (or a punitive luxury tax disguised as one) and claims his pursuit is for the good spirit of competitive balance, but a closer examination shows that payroll and winning are not directly correlated.

What we've learned is that spending is cyclical. The smart organizations, like all businesses, try not to spend until they need to. As an example, the Boston Celtics' payroll the year before they formed their Big Three? It ranked 19th in the NBA. The year before that it was 21st. They lost over 100 games over those two seasons.

The NBA might contend that the Celtics weren’t winning because they weren't spending. But we must be careful about confusing cause and effect here. It may also be the case that the Celtics weren’t spending because they weren’t winning. Why throw big money at free agents when it won't really move the needle for title contention? Perhaps it is better to keep costs low until you can swing a big trade or increase your chances to land a superstar in the draft (see: Thunder, Spurs, Bulls).

Teams run into trouble by buying average players in a free agency market that usually comes with a "winner's curse" premium. If you spend money just to spend it, you find yourself in the in-between world that the Detroit Pistons, Toronto Raptors and Golden State Warriors currently occupy. As we’ve seen time and time again, if you want to be competitive, follow the lead of most champions: build through the draft and be smarter with your cash.

Of course, it helps to have more cash, which allows teams to be more flexible and spend when they need to spend. But if there’s a disparity of haves and have-nots in the NBA, the real disparity can be found in management, not dollars.

AUTOADVERT
eViL
Posts: 25412
Alba Posts: 9
Joined: 1/21/2004
Member: #561
USA
10/26/2011  2:10 PM
knicks should be rated absolute worst in drafting simply because they chose to trade two first round lottery picks for eddy curry. i know it's technically not drafting but it's like saying, "we think eddy curry is better than two lottery picks..." trrbl SMH
check out my latest hip hop project: https://soundcloud.com/michaelcro http://youtu.be/scNXshrpyZo
eViL
Posts: 25412
Alba Posts: 9
Joined: 1/21/2004
Member: #561
USA
10/26/2011  2:18 PM
and yeah, the article is pretty on the money. this is why adding a draft pick compensation aspect for teams who lose big time free agents is a good idea. i think basketball could operate a lot like baseball and be even more competitive.

there should be a pool of picks that rest between the lottery and the playoff team's picks. it can vary from year to year, but my idea is that you'd have the lottery teams pick from 1-13, and then you'd have however many compensation picks there are for any given year, and then you have the playoff teams pick after that. a team that picks up a big time free agent forfeits their first round pick, unless its in the lottery, in which case, the pick goes to the team that lost the free agent, and there is no compensation pick in the pool for that particular transaction.

oh, and also - you get rid of the cap and the max salary, MLE and other exceptions because you won't need exceptions because there'd be no cap.

that's my idea. i think it'd fix the NBA. and yeah, i just came up with that. so i'm sure there are a hundred loop holes that need sealing.

check out my latest hip hop project: https://soundcloud.com/michaelcro http://youtu.be/scNXshrpyZo
eViL
Posts: 25412
Alba Posts: 9
Joined: 1/21/2004
Member: #561
USA
10/26/2011  2:31 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/26/2011  2:34 PM
This would have been last year's draft order. Oh, I added the fact that teams that give up picks as compensation get a pick between the first round and the second round unless they would not have had a pick due to a prior trade, in which case they get no pick at all.

1 Cavaliers
2 Timberwolves
3 Jazz
4 Cavaliers
5 Raptors
6 Wizards
7 Kings
8 Pistons
9 Bobcats
10 Bucks
11 Warriors
12 Jazz
13 Suns
14 Rockets
15 Cavaliers
16 Raptors
17 Jazz
18 Suns

19 Pacers
20 76ers
21 Wizards
22 Bobcats
23 Timberwolves
24 Trail Blazers
25 Nuggets
26 Rockets
27 Thunder
28 Celtics
29 Mavericks
30 Nets
31 Spurs
32 Knicks
33 Bulls

maybe mid level free agent signings require 2nd round pick compensation.

check out my latest hip hop project: https://soundcloud.com/michaelcro http://youtu.be/scNXshrpyZo
smackeddog
Posts: 38389
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 3/30/2005
Member: #883
10/26/2011  2:34 PM
Thanks for the article- the problem is that the teams that tend to draft badly, tend to be owned by morons who don't realise why they keep losing or how to start winning, and so like to blame being in a small market etc.

Also for the most Hawkish owners, this isn't even about parity, but rather inflating their franchise value for when they re-sell it. They use the parity argument to conceal their greed. They aren't actually interested in making a more effective system, but rather a system that will make them more attractive to buyers.

Finally some owners are just angry at losing their star players and want to put a stop to that (jilted lover syndrome).

I think at this point the problem is these three different types of owners are all united, and so are blocking a deal. Maybe if the morons realise their being tricked by the hawkish owners, and the jilted owners start seeing sense and move on, then maybe the numbers stack up to get a deal done, until then, we're screwed!

nixluva
Posts: 56258
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
10/26/2011  4:12 PM
My only problem with the whole thing is that they did this to themselves and yet they try to shift blame to the players. At what point have the players ever had the hammer in these CBA negotiations so that they could demand more money than they should get? It was the owners and Stern that came up with the last CBA and basically forced more concessions on the players. They are the businessmen in this arrangement and I think they've failed to figure out the answer to a very difficult problems, so the easiest thing to do is look at the players who make a lot of money and say that is the source of our problems. Then they look at the big market owners and say the same thing. Those "fat cats" are the source of our problems! The argument should be more about how can we improve the profitability and competitiveness of the small markets. To me the answer seems clear that it has to be in the draft. That's the one low cost way to improve any franchise and it's always been there, but no one has addressed making a change to make the draft more of a resource for losing teams.
Nalod
Posts: 71155
Alba Posts: 155
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
10/26/2011  4:18 PM
Nix be hating an owner!
nixluva
Posts: 56258
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
10/26/2011  6:42 PM
Nalod wrote:Nix be hating an owner!

Nalod be an obtuse fool for the owners! Owners limited top salaries and thus spread the share of BRI to the middle class payers of the NBA and onto the books of teams that are losing and not making enough to pay. Back when only the top players got big contracts the small markets or losing teams didn't have to bare that burden of carrying overpaid middle class NBA players. The OWNERS/Stern created this mess with Max salary limits on players and bigger contracts to low level All Stars and MLE contracts given to players that didn't deserve it. They artificially moved the cost burden away from the few Stars who deserved the big contracts and their teams that could afford to pay cuz they had fans, to now so many teams that don't have the means to overpay mediocre talent.

If you're a small market but have a Duncan or Durant you can make money and afford to pay that player, but now mediocre players get paid too much and their on teams that can't afford to pay them. That's what the Owners/Stern's move have done. Do you get it yet???

Nalod
Posts: 71155
Alba Posts: 155
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
10/26/2011  7:43 PM
I get it, Nix be hating a "Fat Cat" owners!

Nix be repeating himself over and over again.

Nix, you got your view. Enjoy it. Its cool, really, just have it.

It ain't about fault. Its about what it is. Its the owners league to phuch it up as they wish.

Nobody buys a biz with negative cash flow.

Don't tell me about waiting to sell it down the road for a profit cuz if they don't get the cash flow right, then it ain't going to appreciate.

I don't care if its a rental property, dividend paying stock, or a professional basketball team.

And if the players don't like it, then they can sign autographs until nobody asks anymore.

Is that being a fool? Thats just what it is. In the end they will compromise. Both will claim victory.

I'll be the bad guy.

nixluva
Posts: 56258
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
10/26/2011  8:39 PM
Nalod wrote:I get it, Nix be hating a "Fat Cat" owners!

Nix be repeating himself over and over again.

Nix, you got your view. Enjoy it. Its cool, really, just have it.

It ain't about fault. Its about what it is. Its the owners league to phuch it up as they wish.

Nobody buys a biz with negative cash flow.

Don't tell me about waiting to sell it down the road for a profit cuz if they don't get the cash flow right, then it ain't going to appreciate.

I don't care if its a rental property, dividend paying stock, or a professional basketball team.

And if the players don't like it, then they can sign autographs until nobody asks anymore.

Is that being a fool? Thats just what it is. In the end they will compromise. Both will claim victory.

I'll be the bad guy.


I'm not just repeating myself. I'm trying to educate you, but your a dense student. The BUSINESSMEN have done a horrid job of running the business!!! Nothing you say ever addresses this core fact. The players just play. It's up to the owners to set the business plan and make the league profitable. The changes that the owners and Stern have instituted haven't worked. The players just helped the league to have one of it's best seasons, so it's not their fault in regards to what their job is. Then you look at the way owners ran their franchises and you see mismanagement and failed CBA rules that have caused small markets to suffer. When the owners/Stern forced the players to accept max contract limits and in addition raised the pay of the mediocre players in the league, it caused teams with poor rosters to have to bare a larger % of the BRI as opposed to when teams paid the players that deserved it more of the money.

When only the players that draw fans get paid big dollars a larger % of the players money goes to teams that have winning players and can afford to pay. Rather than paying guys like Jared Jeffries making $5 mil or DeSagana Diop being paid $6,925,400 & $7,372,200 this year and next, you'd have only player worth a big salary getting those contracts. A larger % of BRI would be concentrated in fewer players, those players being able to draw fans and help their teams be profitable, like the days when Jordan, Shaq and KG made huge contracts, but mediocre players didn't. The owners did this to themselves.

Nalod
Posts: 71155
Alba Posts: 155
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
10/27/2011  7:20 AM    LAST EDITED: 10/27/2011  7:30 AM
We don't disagree on most points.

I agree the Owners need to fix it. They are trying.

The owners did this to themselves.

Yes they did. They are trying to fix it.

Someone is going to make less money. Its not gonna be the guys putting up the capital.

In europe countries have great deficits and employing austerity measures to reduce spending. Who takes the burden? The workers. Did they do anything wrong? No, they worked by the rules. It was the fault of the government. Who pays the price? The workers! Is that right? Not really. They are Losing benefits. Maybe its benefits they should not have had before. If they did not have it, would they have missed it?

So is the glass half full or half empty. Players/workers received an inflated benefit or being asked to sacrifice?

Nix sees it as sacrifice, maybe I see it as they received an inflated salary (or as you say: Bad deal!)

So what gives?

Can we agree to disagree or are you gonna call me names and repeat yourself?

jrodmc
Posts: 32927
Alba Posts: 50
Joined: 11/24/2004
Member: #805
USA
10/27/2011  10:01 AM
Nalod wrote:We don't disagree on most points.

I agree the Owners need to fix it. They are trying.

The owners did this to themselves.

Yes they did. They are trying to fix it.

Someone is going to make less money. Its not gonna be the guys putting up the capital.

In europe countries have great deficits and employing austerity measures to reduce spending. Who takes the burden? The workers. Did they do anything wrong? No, they worked by the rules. It was the fault of the government. Who pays the price? The workers! Is that right? Not really. They are Losing benefits. Maybe its benefits they should not have had before. If they did not have it, would they have missed it?

So is the glass half full or half empty. Players/workers received an inflated benefit or being asked to sacrifice?

Nix sees it as sacrifice, maybe I see it as they received an inflated salary (or as you say: Bad deal!)

So what gives?

Can we agree to disagree or are you gonna call me names and repeat yourself?

I'm willing to invest some serious capital that it's going to be the name calling and repeating hisself.
Some folks just be talented that way...

Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
10/27/2011  10:32 AM
jrodmc wrote:
Nalod wrote:We don't disagree on most points.

I agree the Owners need to fix it. They are trying.

The owners did this to themselves.

Yes they did. They are trying to fix it.

Someone is going to make less money. Its not gonna be the guys putting up the capital.

In europe countries have great deficits and employing austerity measures to reduce spending. Who takes the burden? The workers. Did they do anything wrong? No, they worked by the rules. It was the fault of the government. Who pays the price? The workers! Is that right? Not really. They are Losing benefits. Maybe its benefits they should not have had before. If they did not have it, would they have missed it?

So is the glass half full or half empty. Players/workers received an inflated benefit or being asked to sacrifice?

Nix sees it as sacrifice, maybe I see it as they received an inflated salary (or as you say: Bad deal!)

So what gives?

Can we agree to disagree or are you gonna call me names and repeat yourself?

I'm willing to invest some serious capital that it's going to be the name calling and repeating hisself.
Some folks just be talented that way...


If you think Nixluva is the only one repeating himself, you're crazy. At this point, virtually all discussion of the situation is repetitive.
jrodmc
Posts: 32927
Alba Posts: 50
Joined: 11/24/2004
Member: #805
USA
10/27/2011  11:31 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
Nalod wrote:We don't disagree on most points.

I agree the Owners need to fix it. They are trying.

The owners did this to themselves.

Yes they did. They are trying to fix it.

Someone is going to make less money. Its not gonna be the guys putting up the capital.

In europe countries have great deficits and employing austerity measures to reduce spending. Who takes the burden? The workers. Did they do anything wrong? No, they worked by the rules. It was the fault of the government. Who pays the price? The workers! Is that right? Not really. They are Losing benefits. Maybe its benefits they should not have had before. If they did not have it, would they have missed it?

So is the glass half full or half empty. Players/workers received an inflated benefit or being asked to sacrifice?

Nix sees it as sacrifice, maybe I see it as they received an inflated salary (or as you say: Bad deal!)

So what gives?

Can we agree to disagree or are you gonna call me names and repeat yourself?

I'm willing to invest some serious capital that it's going to be the name calling and repeating hisself.
Some folks just be talented that way...


If you think Nixluva is the only one repeating himself, you're crazy. At this point, virtually all discussion of the situation is repetitive.

It was more of a wager of sorts, not a blanket pardon of the rest of the board in general. Pointless repetition is an offshoot of the lockout and provides folks with the valuable ability to hone their spelling and logic skills, not to mention post count.
It's just some posters are more adept at repetition than others.

Plus some of this financial analysis shit is just dayum funny.

nixluva
Posts: 56258
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
10/27/2011  12:52 PM
To Nalod and company that think i'm arguing some moral issue of good and evil. I'll try to explain this to you once again:

The real damage to the league system came in the last 2 CBA's.

1999 2005 Maximum salaries; Mid-Level exception; Escrow & luxury tax.
2005 2011 Luxury tax in effect every season; Reductions in contract lengths & raises.

These new measures didn't have the desired effect the owners expected. The Max Salaries actually caused many players to get more than they were worth. ie Joe Johnson, Rashard Lewis etc. MLE of course was a misused and abused option by teams. The Luxury Tax was steep enough to really prohibit teams nor supplement teams to help them out. The Max salary is the main culprit cuz it flattens the salary landscape and low level All Stars make almost as much as the Elite. MLE also helped to ruin teams. If they had left things the way they were when Superstars made huge contracts then even tho the league paid the players 53% of BRI, it wasn't spread as much to the small market or losing teams, cuz they didn't have an Elite player or overpaid mediocre players up and down their roster. The % of BRI wasn't an issue so long as salaries were concentrated to where they could be afforded. Mostly teams with Stars that made their teams lots of money and of course big markets. However even small markets benefited from the old system. It was small market jealously that made them change things for the worse and so they suffered in the last CBA trying so hard to limit the Large Market from taking their star players. Truth is that wasn't really a big problem as they made it out to be.

Nalod
Posts: 71155
Alba Posts: 155
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
10/27/2011  1:10 PM

Nix, please. Your as clear as mud.

eViL
Posts: 25412
Alba Posts: 9
Joined: 1/21/2004
Member: #561
USA
10/27/2011  1:18 PM
Nix is right. many of the owners past proposed "solutions" only caused more problems. MAX salaries and MLE were the two biggest failures of the recent era. it seems like the owners are going more in the direction of trying to rig the NBA economy when, in my opinion, the NBA would benefit from a loosening of the reins.
check out my latest hip hop project: https://soundcloud.com/michaelcro http://youtu.be/scNXshrpyZo
eViL
Posts: 25412
Alba Posts: 9
Joined: 1/21/2004
Member: #561
USA
10/27/2011  1:20 PM
Nalod i know you are subtly trying to make the point that the owners made mistakes and that they are trying to fix them now and hence the battle with the players over salaries. Nix point is that the owner's previous "solutions" have done nothing to fix the league. why should we believe that continuing in the direction that the owners want to go in will work?
check out my latest hip hop project: https://soundcloud.com/michaelcro http://youtu.be/scNXshrpyZo
Nalod
Posts: 71155
Alba Posts: 155
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
10/27/2011  1:29 PM
eViL wrote:Nalod i know you are subtly trying to make the point that the owners made mistakes and that they are trying to fix them now and hence the battle with the players over salaries. Nix point is that the owner's previous "solutions" have done nothing to fix the league. why should we believe that continuing in the direction that the owners want to go in will work?

You don't. Its theres to break or fix. Its all based on theory.

IF its not working, why continue? Players know its broken. Im not taking sides BTW, just an observer.

nixluva
Posts: 56258
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
10/27/2011  1:48 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/27/2011  1:50 PM
Nalod wrote:
eViL wrote:Nalod i know you are subtly trying to make the point that the owners made mistakes and that they are trying to fix them now and hence the battle with the players over salaries. Nix point is that the owner's previous "solutions" have done nothing to fix the league. why should we believe that continuing in the direction that the owners want to go in will work?

You don't. Its theres to break or fix. Its all based on theory.

IF its not working, why continue? Players know its broken. Im not taking sides BTW, just an observer.

eViL is speaking to my point that the owners have been messing up the system and it's their own fault that things didn't work out financially. They didn't enact the new rules due to a lack of profit, but rather to try and limit the power of the large markets. The league was making money before they made those changes, which is why they agreed to giving the players such a large portion of the BRI!!! What the owners didn't account for was the way their new ideas would impact the way teams gave players contracts. The new Max Contract and MLE only served to hurt the small market teams tho they intended that it would take away the advantages of the large markets. The big market teams still had an advantage in that the Luxury Tax wasn't stiff enough and on top of that the Max Contract and MLE served to spread the cost of Labor away from the big market teams down to the small market teams.

Case in point. If the small market teams lower their salaries in an effort to save money, they still get hit cuz the 57% BRI split had to be met and so the money came from a collective pool of all owners. Now in the past the successful teams that could afford to have a Superstar would be paying that player more money since they didn't have a Max on the top salary and thus the Elite players took up a larger % of the total BRI split and the small teams didn't have to carry that burden. There was no MLE and so mediocre players didn't get overpaid on losing teams. Guys like Rashard Lewis would tend not to get the same kind of money as elite players cuz the market didn't have artificial prices set by the new Max Contract levels. Now any player who is a low level All Star or just one of the best players on his team thinks he's a Max Level player and teams felt compelled to pay at or near max levels. So now the owners are back with new ideas. How do we know they know what they're doing any better than before? I don't think they do.

The Payroll and Competitive Balance Myth

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy