Next will have to come the movement, the tipping point that pushes the negotiations to the point of compromise. And that point did not come Friday, when stars like LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Carmelo Anthony, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen got to see for themselves what the owners are asking of them as they seek a system that gives all 30 teams an opportunity to compete and be profitable.

After some initial ugliness -- a person familiar with what happened in the negotiating room told CBSSports.com that some players were initially taken aback by how little the owners' stance has changed -- the bargaining session took on a tone of cooperation that signaled to some players that a deal was within reach.

UPDATE: But not before it appeared that Friday's bargaining session would be short-lived, and that there wouldn't be any more talking this weekend.

According to a person familiar with the negotiations, the owners and players met initially at about 2 p.m. ET and broke up to discuss the situation privately among themselves. The players, furious at seeing first hand the owners' offer of 46 percent of basketball-related income (BRI) -- down from their previous level of 57 percent -- were unanimous about what to do.

"Let's go," one of the players said, according to a source. "There's no reason to go back in there."

At that point, union chief Billy Hunter and commissioner David Stern met privately, seeking a way to calm nerves and preserve the rest of the negotiations. Hunter, according to the person with knowledge of the talks, convinced the players to go back in -- selling them on the idea that the negotiating process had to be respected and telling them that the two sides would switch from the split of basketball-related income (BRI) to system issues.

It was after session that began at 6 p.m. and ran for about an hour that the two sides agreed to return to the bargaining table Saturday.

Both sides, however, tamped down expectations that a deal had to be achieved by the end of the weekend to prevent cancellation of some -- and perhaps all -- regular season games. Deputy commissioner Adam Silver said, "There are a lot of issues on the table," and questioned whether a deal could be consummated by Sunday strictly from the standpoint of "the number of hours in the day."

The rhetoric about the entire season being in jeopardy if a deal wasn't reached this weekend was "ludicrous," commissioner David Stern said Friday -- just two days after pointing out that there would be "enormous consequences" from a lack of progress and that they "won't be a question of just starting the season on time."

The two sides will meet again Saturday morning with nearly the full committee of owners and multiple players on hand in addition to the National Basketball Players Association's executive committee.

Joining the big stars with Fisher, Hunter, and several committee members in the union's post-meeting news conference were Elton Brand, Ben Gordon, Andre Iguodala, and others as Fisher challenged those who've questioned the involvement of the game's biggest names in the bargaining process.

"Some of our guys have been questioned in terms of their commitment to this process, to the players' association and to the game," Fisher said. "Their presence here today, we all know for picture’s sake says a lot. These guys have always been with us."

James, Wade and Anthony abruptly left the news conference without speaking with reporters, climbing together into an idling SUV waiting for them outside the hotel.

But their presence, without question, was felt in the bargaining room. According to two people involved in the talks, several owners who typically are the most boistrous in the meetings -- including Cavs owner Dan Gilbert and Suns owner Robert Sarver -- were noticably subdued. "Much tamer," said one of the soruces. "They know it's time."

The owners were represented by nine of their 11 committee members, with Celtics owner Wyc Grousbeck and Mavericks owner Mark Cuban absent. Heat owner Micky Arison, facing the potential destruction of his Big Three (two of them being in the room), was the only owner not on the committee who attended.

http://ken-berger.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/11838893/32397186?source=rss_blogs_NBA

Wade is a brilliant basketball player and perhaps a mistake to make these guys sit at a negotiating table with captains of industry. Their place is on the court, not in the board room. Money creates power and these players are used to owners and fans offering them the world. Wade wanted respect because he got kids?

Hey, I get in Dwaynes world he was disrespected but he was not dissed on the court or in the night club......These guys are paid for playing basketball and using their bodies. The mind does not expand with ones bank account.

As for wade, I have very little respect for him outside of basketball. His attention seeking documentary during the summer of Lebron using his kids as the reason he wanted to maybe play in Chicago I thought was kind of tacky.

In the end we saw three players collude in their desire to TAKE A PAY CUT and play together.

They are not in a profit sharing argument its about revenue. The owners are simply in the drivers seat until the Euroleague can match them for salary. Players can get mad and go play else where but not for the same money. Starting their own league won't yield them that kind of money either.

Im sure I would be mad if I had a 100 million dollar contract and thought I'd only get 80%. Thru the years we have heard players say "its my money" regarding the contracts.

True the owners have made bone head contract moves in attempt to either fulfill a financial model or a winning model and some of those deals have fallen thru. The star players will get hurt and they have a lot to lose. Maybe more than others. Them being passive up until now has raised questions.

Bottom line is they can stop negotiation because they are being disrespected but its about leverage. The owners know where they are going with this and where it will could end. The players have all been "prepared" and many will never feel the hurt. But many will.

Wade cracked. Maybe it was a calculated move by Stern. Stern don't care what people think of him. Don't forget, he works for the owners, not players. He gets paid 8 million a year. This is the owners game, not his. He is just a player.

smackeddog wrote:ken berger has been doing a great job covering these negotiations- his articles and twitter updates (KBergCBS) have been great- I never really rated him before this lockout, but he's done a good job.

I support the players in this dispute, mainly because the owners proposals seem unfair in many different ways- you can say the players are rich anyways, but really expecting your employees to take a pay cut from 57% of BRI to 46% is ridiculous in itself, but then when you throw in shorter contracts, a hard cap, salary rollbacks (why should anyone have to give back money someone agreed to give them when nothing has changed economically than when the contract was signed?) etc etc- it's a joke, I don't think any employees have ever accepted such a claw back as the one the owners are proposing, and it would be a bad precident, in my opinion.

Negotiations are just that and I don't think the owners really are thinking they get everything.

Im not taking sides, I simply want to understand the business model as it is, and could be without all the "who is rich/who is greedy".

Both parties are very successful people. This is a tough business.

Lets put it this way, sure I can feel for the players being asked to make a cut and at the same time nobody put a gun to an owners head and made him buy a team. Nobody ever wants to take a cut but if the model fails then everyone will pay. What is the truth on that? I don't know. Is it more greed vs what is fair?

All I know that until there is a true competitor to the NBA these players can't make the money elsewhere thus they lose leverage. They work hard to get to where they are and this is not a question of what is fair or not. Its not even for us to judge if a team is a viable investment or a hobby. It is what it is and in the absence of competition for the players they don't have the leverage. Both sides will get hurt.

I have not seen were the owners are being stupid or the players are yet.

All I know is when you let emotions get in the way your not going to make progress.

The fans lose but lets not be too sensitive here. It would suck but there are other things to do.

SupremeCommander wrote:I didn't understand why people cared about the nuts and bolts with the NFL dispute. I'm just as puzzled with this one, if not moreso.

TheGame wrote:THe players really need to look into starting the ground work for their own league. There have got to be some billionaires out there willing to support that effort. Instead of replacement players, the NBA players should look for replacement owners. It will take them 2-3 years to recover, but in the long-run, a league that is not saddled in franchise fee debt and with a better TV deal, could net the players more money or at least the same money. It would be the ultimate screw you. I would call the owners bluff and basically say, we are willing to go down to 52%, and you either agree to that, our we will start our own damn league.

The billionaires would want a return on investment. The Billionaires borrow money for ventures like this.

And your right back where you started but 2-3 years went by. Top star players then are doing what? Making 1/3rd in euroleague?

But, if it could work there is only one man cunning enough to pull it off! Isiah Lord himself!

The commish for a rogue league!

DrAlphaeus wrote:I hear you SupremeCommander, I can't get it up for this accounting stuff. I'll occasionally read Larry Coon articles when he gets posted up here and try understand the salary cap but it's all calculus to this art major.

I'm with the players in this, even if this includes obnoxious millionaire divas like LeBron. They are the reason I watch the game. I'm not a "pure" hoops fan who can be just as happy with a 60-54 NCAA Patriot League game with amateur players I never heard of. First team I loved was the Globetrotters because they did tricks, had a cartoon and were on Gilligan's Island; second team was the Lakers in grade school when I thought the whole league was Kareem, Magic, Dr. J & Larry Bird; and then I became a fan of Ewing, the Knicks and the Jordan-era NBA as a teenager. It sure as hell wasn't Dolan I was watching sweating buckets for 38 MPG and icing his knees down every night, even if he did sign the checks with money from his Long Island cable monopoly.

Considering the accounting shenanigans highlighted in the Gladwell article re: the Nets real estate boondoggle, the whole Sonicsgate debacle, and two decades of embarrassing tabloid back pages chronicling the utter dysfunction of Dolan and his front office, I can't get behind the owners. They give lip service to the community and then use public money to fatten their private coffers.

Twitter reports from Hahn and Broussard say things got heated between Stern & Wade. Supposedly Stern pointed at and talked down to Wade and Wade lashed back, saying something like "don't talk to me like I'm a child, I have kids." I just don't trust Stern and the league, period, with these news reports of a cancelled season if players don't bow down this weekend, followed by the obligatory denial of this, while still threatening "enormous consequences". Mad shady.

As Knicks fans, haven't we already been watching D-leaguers flounder in blue & orange for the last decade? Our team finally gets good, all for the league to not bargain in good faith and break the union? You can have that league Vmart. I'd probably just say F it and get my b-ball fix watching games at Chrystie Street courts or the W. 4th Cage or something.

the fans are a third party to this... I am for my own interests!

This is totally a tangent but...

What about the public, that owns the debt on these stadiums? The owners locked the players out?! WTF!!! Where the bond indentures specify, I think these municipalities should sue the NBA for damages. The idea is the public owns the debt so the team brings in business... but how can you bring in business when you knowingly and willingly jeopardize a season?

SupremeCommander wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:I didn't understand why people cared about the nuts and bolts with the NFL dispute. I'm just as puzzled with this one, if not moreso.

It represents a broader battle in our country that many here are passionate about: working employees vs. corporate owners.

I personally think that is misguided, but get your point.

I am taking the third side--the side of the fan--in this one. Just like when Goldman Sachs decided not to pay bonuses due to public ire. I didn't side with the corporation, and I didn't side with the employees of the corporation. I thought hey were both greedy ****s that couldn't relate to me at all.

I get that some fans are infatuated with grown men but come on. If we go without a season then a ton of fans are going to sour on basketball like people did in 94 with baseball, only this time they're testing for steriods and HGH.

I don't care about the team's business model. I don't care about the content being supplied. I certainly didn't pick Netflix or the content providers. I just will decline the service all together.

Why pick a side contrary to your own interests

Bonn1997 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:I didn't understand why people cared about the nuts and bolts with the NFL dispute. I'm just as puzzled with this one, if not moreso.

It represents a broader battle in our country that many here are passionate about: working employees vs. corporate owners.

I personally think that is misguided, but get your point.

I am taking the third side--the side of the fan--in this one. Just like when Goldman Sachs decided not to pay bonuses due to public ire. I didn't side with the corporation, and I didn't side with the employees of the corporation. I thought hey were both greedy ****s that couldn't relate to me at all.

I get that some fans are infatuated with grown men but come on. If we go without a season then a ton of fans are going to sour on basketball like people did in 94 with baseball, only this time they're testing for steriods and HGH.

I don't care about the team's business model. I don't care about the content being supplied. I certainly didn't pick Netflix or the content providers. I just will decline the service all together.

Why pick a side contrary to your own interests

Of course, we all support fans' interests. Saying that doesn't get you anywhere, though. It doesn't give you any new insights into the issues being debated by the two sides. It's basically the same as just saying "we should all ignore the issues."

well I disagree with the "we should all ignore the issues" bit because I think the issues have been completely misrepresented. This article did a fantastic job of discussing that. I think paying attention to these issues is akin to picking a side in a high school cafeteria he-said-she-said dispute. Both sides are BS. None of us have access to the real info, we never will, and the public gets taken for a ride time and time again because fans follow this stuff like it matters.

If they have to cancel games, the only time there will be compromise is when people stop consuming media on this, as that would be some evidence that the revenue pies are shrinking. The two sides are worse off if 46 or 57 percent of BRI if the pie shrinks substantially than they would be in just splitting the difference and work on drawing more fans into the game

DrAlphaeus wrote:I hear you SupremeCommander, I can't get it up for this accounting stuff. I'll occasionally read Larry Coon articles when he gets posted up here and try understand the salary cap but it's all calculus to this art major.

I'm with the players in this, even if this includes obnoxious millionaire divas like LeBron. They are the reason I watch the game. I'm not a "pure" hoops fan who can be just as happy with a 60-54 NCAA Patriot League game with amateur players I never heard of. First team I loved was the Globetrotters because they did tricks, had a cartoon and were on Gilligan's Island; second team was the Lakers in grade school when I thought the whole league was Kareem, Magic, Dr. J & Larry Bird; and then I became a fan of Ewing, the Knicks and the Jordan-era NBA as a teenager. It sure as hell wasn't Dolan I was watching sweating buckets for 38 MPG and icing his knees down every night, even if he did sign the checks with money from his Long Island cable monopoly.

Considering the accounting shenanigans highlighted in the Gladwell article re: the Nets real estate boondoggle, the whole Sonicsgate debacle, and two decades of embarrassing tabloid back pages chronicling the utter dysfunction of Dolan and his front office, I can't get behind the owners. They give lip service to the community and then use public money to fatten their private coffers.

Twitter reports from Hahn and Broussard say things got heated between Stern & Wade. Supposedly Stern pointed at and talked down to Wade and Wade lashed back, saying something like "don't talk to me like I'm a child, I have kids." I just don't trust Stern and the league, period, with these news reports of a cancelled season if players don't bow down this weekend, followed by the obligatory denial of this, while still threatening "enormous consequences". Mad shady.

As Knicks fans, haven't we already been watching D-leaguers flounder in blue & orange for the last decade? Our team finally gets good, all for the league to not bargain in good faith and break the union? You can have that league Vmart. I'd probably just say F it and get my b-ball fix watching games at Chrystie Street courts or the W. 4th Cage or something.

are you watching the game because of them or because of the NBA product as a whole? let me ask you this? did you watch any of the street games the pros played in this year? with durant, and beasley? I know I didn't bother.. we have to start looking at the NBA as a product.... No one is buying lebron james sneakers if he were playing ball at the local YMCA..... Yes we watch the players, but we pay for the product. part of which the owners provide....At their expense..