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Spoiler Alert - A Song of Ice and Fire - Discussion on Martin's novels to date
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BigDaddyG
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11/16/2011  8:07 PM
jusnice wrote:Wow - never really considered this about Jojen. Refresh my memory - did he die or disappear?

The last time we hear from him are pages 455-456. Meera is all bummed out and crying about how Jojen wants to go home, but won't even fight his fate. I took it to mean that Jojen dreamed that his death will happen when he tries to go back home. But I guess Meera could've meant that Jojen wanted to go home, but his destiny is to stay in the cave where he will die. Bran eats the Weirwood paste in the next few pages.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
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jusnice
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11/17/2011  12:45 PM
Interesting. I don't take that to mean that Bran ate him, but anything is possible in these books and I realize that now after starting this thread than ever. One thing that is cool about these books is the cross-thread of society that seem to be reading them. I'm a die hard fantasy fan (my wife jokes that I don't read anything without a sword, wizard, or dragon on the cover) but feel that these books (helped in a big way by the HBO series) are being read by everyone. Case in point, my senior attorney (managing counsel) for my firm is devoring them and we spent 45 minutes yesterday discussing every character when we should have been talking about a major lawsuit. We both were left hungry for the next volume and agreed that it will be a while, which sucks. I'm currently at a loss for other fantasy series that are on par with this.

Do you guys have any recommendations - I've read many of the standards like Eddings, Feist, Robert Jordan, Tolkein, etc.

jusnice
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12/6/2011  1:18 PM
So, what's up w/ Cat? She is obviously hell bent on vengence, but I'm not quite sure I understand GRRM's penchant for killing characters off only to have them resurrected.

Does this storyline go anywhere? Will Cat ever see her daughters and sons again? This could be cool if she were, say, to hook up with Ayra and kill off the lanisters and the conspirators...

Markji
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12/7/2011  9:15 AM
jusnice wrote:Interesting. I don't take that to mean that Bran ate him, but anything is possible in these books and I realize that now after starting this thread than ever. One thing that is cool about these books is the cross-thread of society that seem to be reading them. I'm a die hard fantasy fan (my wife jokes that I don't read anything without a sword, wizard, or dragon on the cover) but feel that these books (helped in a big way by the HBO series) are being read by everyone. Case in point, my senior attorney (managing counsel) for my firm is devoring them and we spent 45 minutes yesterday discussing every character when we should have been talking about a major lawsuit. We both were left hungry for the next volume and agreed that it will be a while, which sucks. I'm currently at a loss for other fantasy series that are on par with this.

Do you guys have any recommendations - I've read many of the standards like Eddings, Feist, Robert Jordan, Tolkein, etc.


I hope your lawyer isn't charging you by the hour to read these books.
What surprises me is that there are so many women really into these books because woman are put on such a low level; raped constantly, abused, or made to look stupid (Cercei). My friend's wife is more fanatic than he is on the series.
The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
Markji
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12/7/2011  9:25 AM
jusnice wrote:So, what's up w/ Cat? She is obviously hell bent on vengence, but I'm not quite sure I understand GRRM's penchant for killing characters off only to have them resurrected.

Does this storyline go anywhere? Will Cat ever see her daughters and sons again? This could be cool if she were, say, to hook up with Ayra and kill off the lanisters and the conspirators...


Cat has been renamed on various forums as "UnCat." She really is a different character; one nickname for her in the books is now "Lady Stoneheart." And that is what she is. I don't know if she has the ability to love anymore. Would definitely be interesting for her to meet up with Sansa or Arya.

Yeah, so many people seemingly dying and either not dying or coming back to life. Seems to be a theme in the book but getting overused. Everyone from "The Others" to Uncat; probably Jon Snow, Ashara Dayne, Beric Dondarrion, Ser Loras Tyrell, Ser Gregor, Coldhands, etc.

The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
BigDaddyG
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12/7/2011  4:12 PM
Markji wrote:
jusnice wrote:So, what's up w/ Cat? She is obviously hell bent on vengence, but I'm not quite sure I understand GRRM's penchant for killing characters off only to have them resurrected.

Does this storyline go anywhere? Will Cat ever see her daughters and sons again? This could be cool if she were, say, to hook up with Ayra and kill off the lanisters and the conspirators...


Cat has been renamed on various forums as "UnCat." She really is a different character; one nickname for her in the books is now "Lady Stoneheart." And that is what she is. I don't know if she has the ability to love anymore. Would definitely be interesting for her to meet up with Sansa or Arya.

Yeah, so many people seemingly dying and either not dying or coming back to life. Seems to be a theme in the book but getting overused. Everyone from "The Others" to Uncat; probably Jon Snow, Ashara Dayne, Beric Dondarrion, Ser Loras Tyrell, Ser Gregor, Coldhands, etc.


I think the interesting thing is the nature of the resurrections. The wights seem to be mindless while Uncat seems to have gone mad. But Ser Beric managed to keep his head after his numerous resurrections. As for Ser Loras Tyrell, we don't know what happened with him. I assume he'll die and I'm hopefull he'll stay dead. The emo moping bit was gettig tired.

As for Ser Gregor, do you think he's become wight somehow? I hope we get a Qyburn POV.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
Markji
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12/7/2011  11:59 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/8/2011  7:08 AM
BigDaddyG wrote:
Markji wrote:
jusnice wrote:So, what's up w/ Cat? She is obviously hell bent on vengence, but I'm not quite sure I understand GRRM's penchant for killing characters off only to have them resurrected.

Does this storyline go anywhere? Will Cat ever see her daughters and sons again? This could be cool if she were, say, to hook up with Ayra and kill off the lanisters and the conspirators...


Cat has been renamed on various forums as "UnCat." She really is a different character; one nickname for her in the books is now "Lady Stoneheart." And that is what she is. I don't know if she has the ability to love anymore. Would definitely be interesting for her to meet up with Sansa or Arya.

Yeah, so many people seemingly dying and either not dying or coming back to life. Seems to be a theme in the book but getting overused. Everyone from "The Others" to Uncat; probably Jon Snow, Ashara Dayne, Beric Dondarrion, Ser Loras Tyrell, Ser Gregor, Coldhands, etc.


I think the interesting thing is the nature of the resurrections. The wights seem to be mindless while Uncat seems to have gone mad. But Ser Beric managed to keep his head after his numerous resurrections. As for Ser Loras Tyrell, we don't know what happened with him. I assume he'll die and I'm hopefull he'll stay dead. The emo moping bit was gettig tired.

As for Ser Gregor, do you think he's become wight somehow? I hope we get a Qyburn POV.


Ser Gregor is Ser Robert Strong. Qyburn made him into something of a Frankenstein type of monster.

Ser Loras - Cersei keeps hearing that he was badly burned in battle at Dragonstone and will probably die. But then no further word is heard. To me this means that he is alive and that there is probably some devious plot being devised by the Tyrells. The Queen of Thorns may seem like just an eccentric old lady, but she is one nasty person to deal with. I think she has a few things cooking behind the scenes.

The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
BigDaddyG
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1/4/2012  11:35 PM
Don't know if you guys saw this, but GRRM left a Christmas present for his fans. It answers some questions, but leaves many more: http://www.westeros.org/ASoWS/News/Entry/GRRMs_Holiday_Gift_The_Winds_of_Winter_Sample_Chapter/
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
jusnice
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1/5/2012  11:58 AM
Nice - just made my day. Thank you!!
Markji
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1/5/2012  10:24 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/6/2012  5:56 AM
BigDaddyG wrote:Don't know if you guys saw this, but GRRM left a Christmas present for his fans. It answers some questions, but leaves many more: http://www.westeros.org/ASoWS/News/Entry/GRRMs_Holiday_Gift_The_Winds_of_Winter_Sample_Chapter/

Thanks BigD.....Great. Gives a taste of good things things to come.
The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
Markji
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1/6/2012  6:02 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/6/2012  6:12 AM
George R.R. Martin was named "USA Today Author of the Year - 2011" for the 5 book A Song of Ice and Fire series.

Season 2 of the HBO adaptation comes out in April....Can't wait."
(especially since the Knicks are driving me crazy - depressing.)

The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
izybx
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1/14/2012  4:50 PM
I just finished reading all 5 books...such a well written and entertaining series. One of the few books where I read as carefully as possible to stretch out the time before I was finished...just awesome

Any of you guys have recommendations? I started reading book one from the Wheel of Time series, and it isnt even close to the Game of Thrones...sigh

Beat the Evil Empire. BEAT MIAMI
Markji
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1/30/2012  6:56 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/30/2012  6:59 AM
I also loved the entire series of ASOIAF. I thought The Lord of the Rings were the best fantasy adventure but ASOIAF surpasses it by a lot.

I don't read that much fiction but a friend had recommended Daniel Abramham's "The Long Price Quartet which I read between Books 4 and 5 of ASOIAF. I found it very good, absorbing, interesting concepts and enjoyed it. 4 books in the series. I do recommend. Start with the first book, "A Shadow in Summer".... you do need to read them in order. But as you commented - This and other books don't hold a candle to ASOIAF. But who knows when the sixth book will come out? The HBO series, season 2, starts the beginning of April. So something to look forward to.

Re: The Wheel of Time - friends say it started off well and then Robert Jordan lost his way; the books were long and boring; then Jordan died and another writer took up the series and it improved. But not worth starting so many books.

The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
jusnice
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1/30/2012  9:39 AM
Thanks - I'll try to check it out. Re-reading A Wizard of Earthsea by Ursula K LeGuin. Good, but not nearly on the same scale as ASOIAF...
Markji
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1/31/2012  8:15 AM
jusnice wrote:Thanks - I'll try to check it out. Re-reading A Wizard of Earthsea by Ursula K LeGuin. Good, but not nearly on the same scale as ASOIAF...

OK...it's a good read.

For the record and my reputation I just want to go explain my evaluations ---ASOIAF is the best fantasy adventure series ever....by a longshot. Tolkien's Hobbit and Lord of the Rings series is second. Everything else is a distant third or fourth.

So if you are looking for something to read then The Long Price Quartet is fine and D Abraham does a good job in wrapping up the storyline at the end of book 4. But just don't expect anything as intricate as ASOIAF.
Enjoy it.

And for other enjoyment, the Knicks need to turn this season around. I think they will.
And the Giants - Yes. Makes life more fun to have your team is playing for the Championship.

The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
BigDaddyG
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2/1/2012  11:23 AM
Markji wrote:
jusnice wrote:Thanks - I'll try to check it out. Re-reading A Wizard of Earthsea by Ursula K LeGuin. Good, but not nearly on the same scale as ASOIAF...

OK...it's a good read.

For the record and my reputation I just want to go explain my evaluations ---ASOIAF is the best fantasy adventure series ever....by a longshot. Tolkien's Hobbit and Lord of the Rings series is second. Everything else is a distant third or fourth.

So if you are looking for something to read then The Long Price Quartet is fine and D Abraham does a good job in wrapping up the storyline at the end of book 4. But just don't expect anything as intricate as ASOIAF.
Enjoy it.

And for other enjoyment, the Knicks need to turn this season around. I think they will.
And the Giants - Yes. Makes life more fun to have your team is playing for the Championship.


I'm glad the G-Men are on their way to winning another Super Bowl. I just don't want GRRM partying too much on Sunday. He's a big Giants fan and he deserves to celebrate like the rest of us. But he's got some unfinished bussiness. I expect nothing but a month of nonstop writing when the game is over
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
Markji
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2/1/2012  3:57 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
Markji wrote:
jusnice wrote:Thanks - I'll try to check it out. Re-reading A Wizard of Earthsea by Ursula K LeGuin. Good, but not nearly on the same scale as ASOIAF...

OK...it's a good read.

For the record and my reputation I just want to go explain my evaluations ---ASOIAF is the best fantasy adventure series ever....by a longshot. Tolkien's Hobbit and Lord of the Rings series is second. Everything else is a distant third or fourth.

So if you are looking for something to read then The Long Price Quartet is fine and D Abraham does a good job in wrapping up the storyline at the end of book 4. But just don't expect anything as intricate as ASOIAF.
Enjoy it.

And for other enjoyment, the Knicks need to turn this season around. I think they will.
And the Giants - Yes. Makes life more fun to have your team is playing for the Championship.


I'm glad the G-Men are on their way to winning another Super Bowl. I just don't want GRRM partying too much on Sunday. He's a big Giants fan and he deserves to celebrate like the rest of us. But he's got some unfinished bussiness. I expect nothing but a month of nonstop writing when the game is over

Yeah, I agree. That is the only knock on George RR Martin....he parties too much; and writes too slowly.
The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
jusnice
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2/3/2012  3:50 PM
LOL - let's hope he doesn't croak from partying too much or we are screwed.
yellowboy90
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2/12/2012  1:33 PM
Markji wrote:
jusnice wrote:So much to think about...I am confused and have few answers. The Septa ain't a Septa, not sure who she is. The Blackfish will come back and play a role for sure. He's not dead. I originally thought that Cold Hands was Benjen, but now Mark is making me reconsider this given the age comment. I just don't understand what Cold Hands is and what his purpose is in helping Bran if he isn't Benjen. Why would he have let Samwell escape and why would he have some good in him when other brothers who have been turned do not??? Confused.

I am also very confused by what is happening to Bran. What is this underworld he is in and who is the tree man?

The only thing I firmly believe is that Arya will have a huge role in what comes next. I don't think she becomes an assasin or stays with the Faceless Men. It seems that she is learning something in each of her phases of life and that she will turn into this very well rounded, very dangerous woman. Part of me thinks she teams up with Dany since they seem to have strong moral values and aren't all about power and killing.

The Dany plot line is getting a bit old. Does anyone talk about how she must learn to control these dragons or they really aren't an asset to her at all?


Sorry to confuse you. There is a huge amount going on all at the same time and Geo Martin plays his cards close to his chest.

Coldhands- at first I also thought it was Benjen Stark. Maybe he is? or maybe that would be too obvious? My main thought against him being Benjen is why hasn't Bran recognized him as his uncle. They are traveling together for many, many weeks. Surely Bran should notice??? Coldhands is obviously dead and so must be like the other wights in that respect. But he serves the 3-Eyed Crow who is a great Greenseer who controls many things. i.e. the flock of 1001 crows/ravens, Coldhands, the great Elk, etc.

The 3-Eyed Crow is very ancient man/Greenseer whose body is being kept alive and nourished by somehow melding with the tree. It is very strange and I have not read about this concept before. He is the 3-Eyed Crow in Bran's dreams who keeps telling Bran he can fly by opening up his 3rd eye. He is teaching Bran the ways of a Greenseer and IMO, Bran seems to already have surpassed him. 3-Eyed Crow just watches thru the Weirwoods but can't interfere or make contact. Bran already can do that but in addition he spoke out to Theon in the Godswood in Winterfell and Theon heard Bran. Therefore, made contact and communicated.

I agree with you totally about Arya. I love her and she is one person you don't want to cross. Geo Martin did a great job with her chapters because we are seeing thru the eyes and feeling the emotions of a 9 year old girl going thru all of her many adventures.

And Dany - yeah, that sure seemed very stupid for her to chain up the dragons. I thought that was an incongruous twist to the plot. But now the dragons are lose and they will kick ***. Qwentyn got toasted. I hope the same happens to the Yunkai.

The 3-Eyed Crow is BloodRaven a Half-Targ and former Hand(I believe) and former Lord Commander at the Wall. Also, I think he can interfere and obviously he can contact people through their dreams, i.e. Bran.

BigDaddyG
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2/13/2012  11:15 PM
yellowboy90 wrote:The 3-Eyed Crow is BloodRaven a Half-Targ and former Hand(I believe) and former Lord Commander at the Wall. Also, I think he can interfere and obviously he can contact people through their dreams, i.e. Bran.

I think he has the ability to alter events at some level as well. I think he warged into the Lord Commander's crow and I wouldn't be surprised if he played a part in the Starks getting their dire wolves.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
Spoiler Alert - A Song of Ice and Fire - Discussion on Martin's novels to date

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