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NBA Lockout 2011 Game Thread
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Childs2Dudley
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6/30/2011  3:11 PM
KBerg_CBS Ken Berger
BREAKING: Owners have informed players they are locking out. #NBA #lockout

It has begun.

"Our attitude toward life determines life's attitude towards us." - Earl Nightingale
AUTOADVERT
nyk4ever
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6/30/2011  3:24 PM
another sport i guess i have to forget about since it's just another sport that could care less about it's fans. thanks you rich, out of touch *******s.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
martin
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6/30/2011  3:25 PM
except for Summer Leagues, there is no difference to the fans until like September, right? Plenty of time for the season to resume.
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Childs2Dudley
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6/30/2011  3:26 PM
There is free agency and trades - none of which will happen with the lockout.

I doubt this gets settled by September. From the way everyone is talking about, this lockout could last the entire season.

"Our attitude toward life determines life's attitude towards us." - Earl Nightingale
Andrew
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6/30/2011  3:28 PM
Childs2Dudley wrote:There is free agency and trades - none of which will happen with the lockout.

I doubt this gets settled by September. From the way everyone is talking about, this lockout could last the entire season.

Everyone talks big until the checks stop coming in.

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knicks1248
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6/30/2011  3:54 PM
I'll give til september..
ES
jusnice
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6/30/2011  3:56 PM
it's official...lockout!!!
EwingsGlass
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6/30/2011  5:13 PM
Hopefully our ailments will have time to recover. Amare's ideal season is only 50 games anyway.
You know I gonna spin wit it
grillco
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6/30/2011  5:14 PM
Screw the wealthy owners and the rich players. The meeting was three hours...talk about lack of commitment to find a resolution. They should still be in there pounding it out. Calling, emailing, texting, tweeting, etc. non-stop until they at least get closer and then sleep on it and start all over again tomorrow. That is IF they gave **** about the game and the fans. Instead they're all stonewalling each other and refusing to really compromise. As I've noted in other threads, I'm inclined against the owners despite the fact that the millionaire players are also being bullish.
CrushAlot
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6/30/2011  5:25 PM
Hopefully this is resolved quickly and no one balloons up over 300 lbs with the extra time off.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Moonangie
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6/30/2011  5:36 PM
If Melo starts looking like Eddy Curry after this lockout, it will be bad news for us Knicks fans. On the other hand, maybe an abbreviated season is just what the doctor ordered for Chauncey and Amare. The only issue I have is this: If the Knicks somehow miraculously pull out a Championship in a shortened season, does it count as an asterisk win?
Panos
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6/30/2011  5:38 PM
Moonangie wrote:If Melo starts looking like Eddy Curry after this lockout, it will be bad news for us Knicks fans. On the other hand, maybe an abbreviated season is just what the doctor ordered for Chauncey and Amare. The only issue I have is this: If the Knicks somehow miraculously pull out a Championship in a shortened season, does it count as an asterisk win?

THAT'S what you're worried about?! REALLY?
Let me ease your concerns... Knicks ain't winning a chip next year. And if by some miracle they did, I wouldn't be lookin' no asterisk in the mouth. Take what you can get.

Moonangie
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6/30/2011  5:55 PM
Panos wrote:
Moonangie wrote:If Melo starts looking like Eddy Curry after this lockout, it will be bad news for us Knicks fans. On the other hand, maybe an abbreviated season is just what the doctor ordered for Chauncey and Amare. The only issue I have is this: If the Knicks somehow miraculously pull out a Championship in a shortened season, does it count as an asterisk win?

THAT'S what you're worried about?! REALLY?
Let me ease your concerns... Knicks ain't winning a chip next year. And if by some miracle they did, I wouldn't be lookin' no asterisk in the mouth. Take what you can get.

I'm not literally worried. I agree with you, there's not much chance the Knicks get to the ECF, let alone win it all. But I am a bit worries about Melo's belly. He apparently likes to ea and maybe his workout habits aren't those of a champion. Guess we'll find out whenever the CBA gets hammered out.

Anji
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6/30/2011  6:01 PM
Moonangie wrote:If Melo starts looking like Eddy Curry after this lockout, it will be bad news for us Knicks fans. On the other hand, maybe an abbreviated season is just what the doctor ordered for Chauncey and Amare. The only issue I have is this: If the Knicks somehow miraculously pull out a Championship in a shortened season, does it count as an asterisk win?

Yeah in the 9th season of hall of fame type of a year, Carmeloe is going to balloon up to the small forward version of Eddy curry........

I don't even know how some of these " jokes" have legs. Only in New York I suppose could a guy like Melo not being in DHoward class of Muscle on Muscle body type be considered in the complete opposite direction.

"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
AnubisADL
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6/30/2011  8:03 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/30/2011  8:03 PM
Season doesn't start for another 4 months. I believe they can get something done.

No incentive to rush and get a deal done at this point. Plus players cant afford to not get those checks in the Fall.

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Olbrannon
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6/30/2011  8:33 PM
AnubisADL wrote:Season doesn't start for another 4 months. I believe they can get something done.

No incentive to rush and get a deal done at this point. Plus players cant afford to not get those checks in the Fall.

That works both ways. Thought here is ticket sales are at a 12 year low.

Bill Simmons on Tyreke Evans "The prototypical 0-guard: Someone who handles the ball all the time, looks for his own shot, gets to the rim at will and operates best if his teammates spread the floor to watch him."
arkrud
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6/30/2011  10:21 PM
This is all Dolan conspiracy.
He will be able to finish the renovation faster and he doesn't need any revnue from the Knicks...
MSG has so many other sources of cache even putting aside the Cablevision that little Jimmy will not even noticed.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
crzymdups
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6/30/2011  10:43 PM
ugh. this is so depressing.
¿ △ ?
BasketballJones
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6/30/2011  11:09 PM    LAST EDITED: 6/30/2011  11:11 PM

NBA lockout will dwarf the NFL strife
Next to the current NFL lockout, the NBA's problems are distressingly monumental
By Michael Wilbon
ESPN.com

The NFL ought to be embarrassed to call its little labor dispute a lockout. No regular season games will be missed; no preseason games will be missed. When all is said and done, not a single day of training camp will be lost. How dire can it be if the commissioner and the union chief are flying around the country together, all chummy like the stars in a buddy movie? The sum total of the damage from pro football's work stoppage will be the sacrifice of a bunch of manufactured and overstated off-season activities that didn't even exist 20 years ago and don't need to be on the sports calendar now.

The NBA, on the other hand, is about to show the NFL how to conduct a truly contentious labor war and stage a lockout likely to do real damage in terms of dollars, goodwill and reputation.

The NFL was never going to miss anything meaningful.

The NBA might miss the entire 2011-12 season.

Yes, the two sides are that far apart. They're miles apart. The only thing that passed for optimism came and went during the feel-good NBA Finals when the two sides had a few days of civility. This isn't a matter of figuring out how to split up profits, which is what the NFL faces. This is how Tom Penn, ESPN's expert on professional basketball's financial matters, put it Wednesday: If the NFL labor dispute is a sprained ankle, the NBA's is a torn ACL and a ripped Achilles. NFL teams still make money; it's just that instead of $30-40 million a year in profit, they've been down recently to, say, $9 or 10 million.

The NBA, meanwhile, has teams losing real money. The league says 22 of 30 are operating in the negative; the players association would surely say it's fewer than that. Either way, it's reasonable -- if not downright inescapable -- to conclude there are NBA teams awash in red ink. It costs less for those owners to keep their arenas closed than to stage the games. The owners of those teams want a harder salary cap than exists now, and probably a cap that down the road becomes not just harder, but hard, period. The owners say that's a must, while the players say a hard cap is a no-go. Instead of the players getting 57 percent of basketball-related income, the owners want something more akin to a 60-40 split in their favor.

In other words, the two sides ain't close. They're not even close to close. They're further apart, actually, than they were in 1998-99 when the entire season came within 24 hours of being cancelled.

The NBA is going to miss games, and the smart money is on the league missing lots of games. A new group of owners who paid a ton of money for their franchises since the last work stoppage 13 years ago are ready to sacrifice the season. The six owners who have both NHL and NBA teams saw first-hand how sacrificing essentially an entire season led to an overhauled NHL with slashed costs, and they're drooling over the prospect of an NBA with similar cost certainty.

This dispute, ladies and gents, starts at contentious. David Stern, while he won't want a missed season staining his legacy as commissioner, nonetheless said last week that once a lockout starts, the league's offers will only be lowered, which doesn't exactly sound like good-faith negotiating. There's very little reason to be optimistic, other than the fact that Stern and union chief Billy Hunter were the same guys doing these exact jobs 13 years ago and are acutely aware of the damage the sport sustained then. Hunter has even said it took at least six years for the league and its players to get back to where they were before the 1998 lockout.

Yet, the lockout is in place as of midnight Thursday, even though the NBA -- thanks to a compelling last 12 months and 2011 season -- stands on the verge of a boom cycle, even though every single indicator of interest is up. The owners are determined to come up with a new system more profitable to them and the players say they're stronger and smarter and more prepared than in '99 and won't cave as easily as they did then.

While there are players out there who say they have hope the season will begin on time, November, December and January seem already lost if the prevailing mood is any kind of indication.

Hunter told reporters Thursday it's too early to call it an eventuality, saying, "I hope it doesn't come to that. Obviously, the clock is now running with regard to whether or not there will be a loss of games, so I'm hoping that over the next month or so there will be a sort of softening of their side and maybe we have to soften our position as well."

Let's put on a happy face with this reminder of the Jan. 7, 1999 press conference at which Hunter and David Stern announced the end of the last lockout.

Still, there's not a ton of optimism floating around. ESPN's Penn, who has the experience of working for a couple of small market teams (Portland and Memphis) and practically dealing with all 30 teams in the league, told Kornhesier and me on Thursday's "PTI" that he'd put the odds of the season being cancelled at as high as 75 percent. Charles Barkley said recently it wouldn't surprise him if the season was cancelled.

Stern and Hunter can hope for a full season, but at least they aren't misleading anybody by predicting a quick end to the dispute. Stern said, "These kinds of things take on a life of their own, and I just don't know where their life is going to lead."

Does that sound like a realist talking, or what? Hunter's latest characterization was, "The gap is too great."

Could the two sides be moving forward with less energy? It's eerily reminiscent of 13 years ago when the union and management went more than 40 days without any kind of bargaining session, which led Barkley to savage both sides for dragging their feet. And officials from both ends of this dispute, 13 years later, characterize the two sides as being further apart now than they were then.

And to think: Back during the NBA All-Star break, both parties were thinking that a quick resolution to the NFL labor dispute might help push basketball's two sides to move fairly quickly.

So now, as the sport with the greatest hold on the nation moves closer to resuming activity, basketball exits stage left, not only failing to cut into pro football's sizeable lead but failing to capitalize long-term on 12 months of being front and center in a way no marketing exec could dare have dreamed. Very quickly, the NBA has waved bye-bye to momentum and goodwill, and hello to uncertainty and an annoyed if not outraged fan base, most of which is sophisticated enough to know that a great storm is brewing just over the horizon.

Michael Wilbon is a featured columnist for ESPN.com and ESPNChicago.com. He is the longtime co-host of "Pardon the Interruption" on ESPN and appears on the "NBA Sunday Countdown" pregame show on ABC in addition to ESPN. Over the course of three decades with The Washington Post, Wilbon earned a reputation as one of the nation's most respected sports journalists. You can follow him on Twitter https://twitter.com/#!/search/RealMikeWilbon.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/commentary/news/story?page=wilbon-110630

https:// It's not so hard.
nyshakespeare
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7/1/2011  12:42 AM
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/15282280/congratulations-nba-owners-you-got-what-you-wanted

Congratulations, NBA owners: You got what you wanted

NEW YORK -- First, some perspective: There's no need for disappointment, panic, or moral indignation after NBA owners voted to lock out the players Thursday. This is where this sham of a negotiation has been headed for months, if not years. This is what the owners want.

This is not what you want. But they don't care what you want. The owners don't and the players don't. They want what they want, and that's why we're here.

If the players were serious about helping the owners stem their stated losses of $300 million a year, their final salvo in the hours before the expiration of the collective bargaining agreement would've been more than what union chief Billy Hunter characterized as a "moderate" proposal. If the owners were serious about operating a profitable business, they would've folded -- or at least scaled back -- the money-bleeding WNBA and nuked the league's most financially hopeless franchises by now, instead of trying to extract all their pie-in-the-sky profits from the players.

Contracting teams that shouldn't exist, in cities that can't support them, along with a more robust revenue-sharing plan would've been more than enough to restore profits -- and we haven't even gotten to wasteful preseason games in far-flung locales. David Stern's scaled-back vision of an international NBA might sell a few T-shirts in Beijing and Guangzhou, but it has nothing to do with whether the Kings, Bobcats or Timberwolves can compete and earn a profit. (All three can do neither.)

The only cause for panic is among the worker bees in arenas and practice facilities all over the country that will be shut down for NBA business -- possibly for months, and potentially causing furloughs, pay cuts and job losses. Stern and deputy commissioner Adam Silver had the audacity to express remorse for such people Thursday, even as they carried out the cruel, twisted vision of arrogant owners who believe their almighty bottom line is bigger than the game.

As LeBron James said after the Finals, those regular folks can go back to their miserable lives now -- except they probably won't have jobs.

But while it would be hysterical and misguided to treat this work stoppage as anything other than an economic maneuver by billionaires against millionaires, the sad fact is that the NBA and its players' union are poised to flush 13 years of progress down the toilet in the name of propping up bad businessmen and preserving a life of luxury few Americans other than professional athletes will ever know. After a season marked by interest, fan engagement, buzz and TV ratings not seen since Michael Jordan hit his last championship shot in 1998, the league has regained all the ground lost after Jordan's retirement -- and then some.

Before today, there were only two universally loathed men associated with the sport -- LeBron and Stern. Now, we hate them all.

Who deserves that indignation and who doesn't hardly matters at this point -- and we weren't going to find out from the creative massaging of the English language perpetrated on the public by negotiators on both sides.

Which is why I'm with Hunter on this point: I'm glad the lockout is here. Hunter actually said that Thursday: "I'm glad that it's happened." Because the two sides get a break from staring across a room at each other, and we get a respite from the lies and distortions both sides have been telling to explain their inexcusable positions.

Lucky for you, the players have decided not to follow the NFL model and decertify the union, so the two sides will be able to continue negotiating with each other and distorting the content of those negotiations for weeks and months to come.

Two weeks ago, union officials spread the word that they had made a $500 million concession in negotiations, which Stern later called "modest." Then we came to find out they had actually moved $318 million and upped the ante to $500 million. Then on Thursday, Silver asserted that the concession actually was merely a request for $500 million less of a pay increase -- to $12.2 billion in salary over five years from $12.7 billion. Who knew Congress was running the NBA's union?

The distortions continued even as a smiling Stern and grim-faced Silver delivered the news Thursday that a lockout would be imposed. Stern said the players' final proposal would've raised the average player salary from $5 million to $7 million in the sixth year of a new CBA. I don't know how Stern did his math, but sources said what the players actually proposed was adding a sixth year to their five-year proposal at the 54 percent share of basketball-related income (BRI).

So with the owners asking for a 10-year deal, the players agreed to add a sixth year. It was like everything else in these negotiations: a tree falling in the forest with no one around to hear it.

A bigger tree with a bigger crowd wasn't going to make a difference.

"As if this lockout wasn't a foregone conclusion from the moment they walked into the room," a person familiar with the negotiations said.

Stern also artfully dodged the notion that his bargaining position is focused solely on achieving massive pay cuts, rather than the corresponding goal of assuring that all 30 teams can compete for a championship. The evidence is in the owners and players never moving off the debate over economics. There are a lot of good ideas about improving the distribution of money among players and teams, but none of them will see the light of day until the rich people quit arguing over who should get the money.

Revenue sharing? Stern asserted Thursday that his owners' planning committee will continue "full speed ahead" with its plan for redistributing wealth in a league that has, bar none, the worst revenue-sharing system in American professional team sports. The owners' plan will "triple" the amount of revenue shared, Stern said, from $60 million to $180 million. Except those numbers don't add up, either. Stern's $180 million total includes the $75 million already shared through an antiquated and ineffective luxury-tax system, which the league seeks to eliminate.

So the owners' grand vision to restore equitable distribution of wealth would be to "triple" revenue sharing from $135 million to $180 million. With math like that, no wonder the NBA is losing money.

"Right now, as of midnight tonight, we're not going to have any revenues to share," Stern said.

The players? They're to blame, too, clinging foolishly to a system that gives them wealth and power in copious amounts -- amounts that can't be sustained in this post-2008 world. It's hard to be too critical of the players' negotiating stance, since they've been backed into a corner for 18 months by the owners' draconian initial proposal of a $45 million hard cap and more than a 33 percent salary rollback. How do you negotiate away from that?

But also, how much time has been wasted in these negotiations talking about meaningless ploys like adding a second mid-level exception and restoring the age limit to 18? How were those measures going to do anything but make the product worse?

So what do we get now? We get a break -- a much-needed break -- from the pointless "negotiation" that has consumed the NBA for weeks. Will that lead to progress? Only when both sides move toward compromise, which could take months -- and might very well require the loss of games and a toll on the league's image that even Stern admitted Thursday was incalculable.

"As we get deeper into it," Stern said, "these things have the capacity to take on a life of their own and you never can predict what will happen."

Ah, but whose fault is that? This is what the owners wanted. This is what the players were never in a position to help them achieve without losing all credibility. This is where we are in the NBA, from the Summer of LeBron to the Summer of Silence in 12 months.

Maybe some silence will help.

It Is Solved By Walking
NBA Lockout 2011 Game Thread

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