Markeiff
Shumpert/Burk/DMorris
Norris Cole 2nd rounder

crzymdups wrote:the thing about Shumpert and Chris Singleton being on our radar that annoys me is - if we have such a need for a wing defender or a defensive guard.... WHY DID WE WAIVE COREY BREWER before even playing him???

It was a bad move waiving Brewer, MDA's finger prints were all over that move. But after he was waived, Fields really went into the tank and looked horrid in the playoffs. Shumpert is a much better prospect than Brewer IMO. I think Fishmike naile it with the Iguodala compairson. Shumpert is the type of player that can get you a triple double from the 2. Too much potential to pass up on this dude.

crzymdups wrote:

Uptown wrote:

crzymdups wrote:the thing about Shumpert and Chris Singleton being on our radar that annoys me is - if we have such a need for a wing defender or a defensive guard.... WHY DID WE WAIVE COREY BREWER before even playing him???

It was a bad move waiving Brewer, MDA's finger prints were all over that move. But after he was waived, Fields really went into the tank and looked horrid in the playoffs. Shumpert is a much better prospect than Brewer IMO. I think Fishmike naile it with the Iguodala compairson. Shumpert is the type of player that can get you a triple double from the 2. Too much potential to pass up on this dude.

i mean, i like Shumpert, too. he seems to have a good motor and he has the size to play alongside toney douglas while maybe being the decision-maker which we know toney is horrible at. and he could play alongside chauncey, too. seems like a solid pick.

i just worry that we said the same about mardy collins.

and i'm still pissed about brewer, who was a lottery talent that people were praising the same way chris singleton is being praised now.

The concern I had with Brewer coming into the draft was he was about a buck-80 soaking wet. Too weak/small to play the three and wasn't a good enough shooter or ball handler to hold down the 2 long term. Mardy Collins had good size at the point but was an unathletic, methodical, below the rim player. Shumpert kills him in the athletic department, is just a good a passer, better rebounder and is stronger and faster. Shumpert is a consistant jump shot away from being one of the top 3 players in this draft. If he's there, we have to jump all over him.

joec32033 wrote:I pick Markieff Morris. I think he is NBA ready. Kind of a low risk low reward type player but maybe a Buck Williams/ bigger, current version of KMart type player.I am also looking to buy another pick. In the 20 range. That is where you grab your guard. This draft is guard heavy with no real separation in that range. My dream draft is

Markeiff
Shumpert/Burk/DMorris
Norris Cole 2nd rounder

Why duplicate one of our strongest positions (PF) when there will be pretty good prospects available to us to fill other much needed areas (pg, sg, and C)?

Knixkik wrote:

Uptown wrote:

crzymdups wrote:the thing about Shumpert and Chris Singleton being on our radar that annoys me is - if we have such a need for a wing defender or a defensive guard.... WHY DID WE WAIVE COREY BREWER before even playing him???

It was a bad move waiving Brewer, MDA's finger prints were all over that move. But after he was waived, Fields really went into the tank and looked horrid in the playoffs. Shumpert is a much better prospect than Brewer IMO. I think Fishmike naile it with the Iguodala compairson. Shumpert is the type of player that can get you a triple double from the 2. Too much potential to pass up on this dude.

The Igoudala comparison is great, and hopefully he becomes that type of player with at least most of the production as the fringe-all star. My concerns with Shumpert is his shooting ability. If he was a better shooter he wouldn't be in our draft range, but it still concerns me. I really want to get a starting shooting guard or center out of this draft, and i'm hoping Shumpert can start at SG in the near future and not be a liability as a shooter. He has the potential to be one of the top defensive wings in the league, so he definitely fills a need. I just don't want him to be caught as a tweener on this roster like Douglas who can't really settle into a position. For those reasons, i still rank Vucevic slightly ahead because i feel he can be our long-term starting center, but i still would not be mad at a Shumpert pick. Maybe someone can give me a better idea of how Shumpert projects as a long-term fit for us if drafted.

It's like you said, if Shumpert could shoot, he's be a top 5 pick, no doubt. On our current roster, we already have some pretty good shooters, in fact I think we fall in love with the jump shot much to often. Melo can slash, but seems to prefer to shoot the mid-range jay and as the season wore on, stepped back beyond the 3 point line a little too much for my liking. Billups is a gunner, and Stat has turned into a top of the key shooter who occasionally takes it to the hole.

Shumpert gives us that slasher that we need, that athletic beast who gets into the lane and causes havoc. He's an above average passer who has some experience at the 1 and can play with Douglas, Billups or even Fields for stretches. He can guard the 1 or the 2, will be one of the leaders in the league in steals if given the minutes and is a tremendous finisher at the rim. Dude has many tols in the tool box and is yung enough and seems to hvae the work ethic to want to improve on his jumper. If he develops any consistency from the perimeter, he can be the steal of the draft.

Paladin55 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Uptown wrote:

crzymdups wrote:the thing about Shumpert and Chris Singleton being on our radar that annoys me is - if we have such a need for a wing defender or a defensive guard.... WHY DID WE WAIVE COREY BREWER before even playing him???

It was a bad move waiving Brewer, MDA's finger prints were all over that move. But after he was waived, Fields really went into the tank and looked horrid in the playoffs. Shumpert is a much better prospect than Brewer IMO. I think Fishmike naile it with the Iguodala compairson. Shumpert is the type of player that can get you a triple double from the 2. Too much potential to pass up on this dude.

i mean, i like Shumpert, too. he seems to have a good motor and he has the size to play alongside toney douglas while maybe being the decision-maker which we know toney is horrible at. and he could play alongside chauncey, too. seems like a solid pick.

i just worry that we said the same about mardy collins.

and i'm still pissed about brewer, who was a lottery talent that people were praising the same way chris singleton is being praised now.

Shumpert intrigues me, but I also have some major reservations about the guy. From DX:

Though Shumpert has certainly played quite a bit of point guard throughout his career at Georgia Tech, he's spent more time off the ball recently. In his first two years in Atlanta, he struggled with his shot selection, liked to dominate the ball, and proved fairly turnover prone looking to set the table for others. Now forced to score out of necessity as a junior, Shumpert's passing numbers have declined, but he's turning the ball over far less, getting to the line quite a bit more, and has gotten more and more efficient as the season has gone on, even if his sub 40% shooting remains disconcerting.

He still has a significant amount of work ahead of him in terms of learning how to play winning basketball—as evidenced by the lackluster season is Georgia Tech is having (11-14 overall, 3-8 in ACC), but we have seen some progress individually on Shumpert's part, even if it's been mostly in a losing effort. Georgia Tech's degenerate offense has plenty to do with this obviously, but Shumpert can't escape criticism for how bad his team looks in the half-court, since he's often the main culprit.

Shumpert's desire to have the ball in his hands, his team's need for leadership, and the subtle improvements he's made offensively have regardless generated a number of extremely impressive performances from the young guard, including a 30 point outburst against UNC and a recent 27 point outing against Virginia Tech.

Still a streaky perimeter scorer, Shumpert is far too reliant on his jump shooting ability, and often looks to pull-up when he puts the ball on the floor.

Any player we draft has to compliment our two stars, who will be taking a majority of our shots, I would assume.

You want a distributor, who can penetrate, dish, and hit the J when open...fine.

You want a banger in the middle who can rebound and block shots...fine

You want a jump shooter who can hit the shot when open, but does not have to dominate the ball to be effective...fine.

You want a big man who can hit the midrange J, score from the post, and play decent D and rebound...fine.

But do you want a guy who is turnover prone as a PG, with a streaky J, who needs the ball to be effective? Don't think so.

Shumpert is a late #1 IMO for a team like the Knicks, who already have their two go to guys. I think the success of Dallas in the playoffs clearly shows that you need guys with a variety of skills who mesh together as a team.

I would be careful about over-estimating Shumpert. I would not tear out what little hair I have left if we took him, but I expect that we will have left better options on the board if we do take him at 17.

I think Shumpert is more of a 2 than a 1 and that will cut down on the turnovers. All of the concerns you have are legit, but thats why he's available to us at 17. Any other player available to us at 17 will have just as many red-flags if not more than Shumpert. The draft is all about projecting forward and Shumpert, IMO has a chance to be a better all around player than any of the prospects that will be available. Curious though, what better options do you see at 17?

Paladin55 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Paladin55 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Uptown wrote:

crzymdups wrote:the thing about Shumpert and Chris Singleton being on our radar that annoys me is - if we have such a need for a wing defender or a defensive guard.... WHY DID WE WAIVE COREY BREWER before even playing him???

It was a bad move waiving Brewer, MDA's finger prints were all over that move. But after he was waived, Fields really went into the tank and looked horrid in the playoffs. Shumpert is a much better prospect than Brewer IMO. I think Fishmike naile it with the Iguodala compairson. Shumpert is the type of player that can get you a triple double from the 2. Too much potential to pass up on this dude.

i mean, i like Shumpert, too. he seems to have a good motor and he has the size to play alongside toney douglas while maybe being the decision-maker which we know toney is horrible at. and he could play alongside chauncey, too. seems like a solid pick.

i just worry that we said the same about mardy collins.

and i'm still pissed about brewer, who was a lottery talent that people were praising the same way chris singleton is being praised now.

Shumpert intrigues me, but I also have some major reservations about the guy. From DX:

Though Shumpert has certainly played quite a bit of point guard throughout his career at Georgia Tech, he's spent more time off the ball recently. In his first two years in Atlanta, he struggled with his shot selection, liked to dominate the ball, and proved fairly turnover prone looking to set the table for others. Now forced to score out of necessity as a junior, Shumpert's passing numbers have declined, but he's turning the ball over far less, getting to the line quite a bit more, and has gotten more and more efficient as the season has gone on, even if his sub 40% shooting remains disconcerting.

He still has a significant amount of work ahead of him in terms of learning how to play winning basketball—as evidenced by the lackluster season is Georgia Tech is having (11-14 overall, 3-8 in ACC), but we have seen some progress individually on Shumpert's part, even if it's been mostly in a losing effort. Georgia Tech's degenerate offense has plenty to do with this obviously, but Shumpert can't escape criticism for how bad his team looks in the half-court, since he's often the main culprit.

Shumpert's desire to have the ball in his hands, his team's need for leadership, and the subtle improvements he's made offensively have regardless generated a number of extremely impressive performances from the young guard, including a 30 point outburst against UNC and a recent 27 point outing against Virginia Tech.

Still a streaky perimeter scorer, Shumpert is far too reliant on his jump shooting ability, and often looks to pull-up when he puts the ball on the floor.

Any player we draft has to compliment our two stars, who will be taking a majority of our shots, I would assume.

You want a distributor, who can penetrate, dish, and hit the J when open...fine.

You want a banger in the middle who can rebound and block shots...fine

You want a jump shooter who can hit the shot when open, but does not have to dominate the ball to be effective...fine.

You want a big man who can hit the midrange J, score from the post, and play decent D and rebound...fine.

But do you want a guy who is turnover prone as a PG, with a streaky J, who needs the ball to be effective? Don't think so.

Shumpert is a late #1 IMO for a team like the Knicks, who already have their two go to guys. I think the success of Dallas in the playoffs clearly shows that you need guys with a variety of skills who mesh together as a team.

I would be careful about over-estimating Shumpert. I would not tear out what little hair I have left if we took him, but I expect that we will have left better options on the board if we do take him at 17.

I think Shumpert is more of a 2 than a 1 and that will cut down on the turnovers. All of the concerns you have are legit, but thats why he's available to us at 17. Any other player available to us at 17 will have just as many red-flags if not more than Shumpert. The draft is all about projecting forward and Shumpert, IMO has a chance to be a better all around player than any of the prospects that will be available. Curious though, what better options do you see at 17?

I guess that I really want a big man.

I like Vucevic a lot, he seems like the perfect big man for us, except for his shot blocking.

I think Thompson is a perfect fit at the 2.

I wonder what the Knicks saw with Shumpert when he was here. I know they matched him up with Jenkins, as both were seen by us on the same day.

Maybe the Knicks see him as a Terry-type player coming off the bench. That might be how I would use him if I had him. Let him have a little more freedom off the bench, and maybe make him a starter as(if) his consistency improves.

If he plays D like they say he can, I know I will end up liking him, just for that. If he works at his shot and its consistency, I'll like him even more. You already figure that he will be a great finisher on breaks.

I will say this- Shumpert, and maybe Montiejunas are probably the guys in the second half of the draft who have the potential to be both steals at 17, or major disappointments.

I will also say that Shumpert is not going to be a high level PG in the NBA, if that is the position he ends up at, and I think that is why GTech used him more as a 2 than a 1.

I'll pass on a defensive version of Jamal Crawford.

Uptown wrote:so w

AnubisADL wrote:I guess some here didnt watch the NBA playoffs. We need a guard who the opposing team won't guard 4 ft away.

I'll pass on a defensive version of Jamal Crawford.

So who are you taking at 17?

BTW, Crawford is 6'5 195-200lbs, Shumpert is 6'5 222lbs. Big difference. Jamal is allergic to the paint, this guy gets to the line. And if Craw played D like Shumpert, he'd be an allstar!!

If you dont have a jumper teams will play 4 ft away from you reducing your driving ability.

The guy isnt a PG plain and simple. He is a SG who cant shoot.

If the Knicks want someone who can help us next year then we should just trade the pick for a OJ Mayo or Brandon Rush. If we keep the pick I'd go for a guy with upside like Jeremy Tyler who would be a college Freshmen.

Plenty of overpaid guards who cant shoot that teams would like to dump.

Source: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=FreeAgents-11-12