tkf wrote:

Juice wrote:Yes there is an incredible double standard when discussing these 2 point guards. Now no matter your preference between the two Charles Barkley had the most logical argument of all on the panel which echoed mine discussing these NON POINT GUARDS the past couple yrs.

Listen I don't give a fudge how highlight spectatsic Rose's layups and splash dunks look his job is to make everyone better you know like...

Deron
CP3
Nash

They can take bad players and make them mediocre

They can take mediocre players and make them average

They can take average players and make them good

They can take good players and make them great

They can take great players and make them All-Stars

They can do pretty much everything with exception of making them Superstars(in some cases there are exceptions to this)

Meanwhile these 2 numbskulls play the game to make themselves better first and last. WestBrook is probably more guilty as he has the tendency to derail his team in critical moments, meanwhile Rose is more hidden in that he uses his teammates throughout the game... hides behind humility to get the limelight. This is the same Rose who told Lebron to not come to Chicago and had to call him to explain himself after the fact. <-------So MVP speech with fam there and all are softy spoken..... you're secretively selfish and you can't pull a veil over my eyes and fool me.

What I don't like is how WestBrook gets slammed publicly and Rose gets excused mainly because he's the darling league MVP.

I made this prediction a year ago. I said the thunder will be looking for a PG in a few years... westbrook is the type of athlete that will come along and make a lot of highlight reel plays early in his career.. and people will be like.."look at that, and he is only 21!!" not realizing that 3 years down the road when he is doing the same thing, it is no longer look at the potential, but look at his flaws..

rose is a good player, but he is not a PG either... He will be the guy that is always putting up numbers but "doesn't have help" well how can you add another legit player with a guy who has to have the ball 24/7 to be effective?

I am loving the fact that dirk and the mavs are doing work in the west and didn't have to sell out to the triumvirate theory(see miami) in order to succeed....

I actually think WestBrook knows what he should be doing he's being stubborn and fighting the right course of action. I honestly believe he's jealous more so of D-Rose's pub and not trying to show up Durant his own teammate. Much like Josh Smith playing stupid every other game.... where Woody had him pegged correctly 3yrs ago. WestBrook doesn't have to give the ball to Durant exclusively, his job is to make Durant/Ibaka/Perkins/Sefo/Collison/Harden/Cook/Nazr/Maynor better by getting them easy baskets in places on the court they feel comfortable and being an example on the court. Not to call for quadruple screens, dribble out the clock.... to take a low percentage shot for self. Watching these guys take 30FGA/gm in the playoffs is pathetic. Before Rose broke out for 44pts he was shooting 38% in the playoffs then followed up his 44pt performance with another low percentage shooting game. Put Deron Williams on the Bulls and they would be winning as a team not as a 1 Man show.

y2zipper wrote:It's not a double-standard. Derrick Rose is the best player on his team and is good enough to carry his team and Westbrook is not. When you're the best player on your team, you take the most shots and put the numbers not, and when you're not, you don't. Westbrook should be deferring to Durant because he's not as good as Durant. It's not that hard.

I agree about WestBrook but sorry you can't excuse Rose here

Wrong a POINT GUARD'S job is to make teammates better first and/or make sure there is equal balance between their personal abilities and those of their teammates.

Boozer(I believe has been to a WCF) has been in more playoff games than Rose as has Deng and possibly Korver.... so no pulling that card "who is he going to pass too" and "he's so much better than his teammates" is crap. Rose did not win 60gms playing with crappy players this year. Shooting 11-27 or 11-28 with low ast totals and suicide passes.... is unacceptable no matter how many 1/8gms he puts up 30-40pts.

I mean what is the alcohol proof level on Derrick Ring Around The Rosey Pocket Full Of James Poseys Kool-Aid some of you are intoxicated/inebriated/liquored up on?

When you take high volume shots and shoot low percentages on a good team, something is wrong. Rose deserves criticism. He is not infallible. He's not JC, although talking to some fans in the NBA circle you'd think he was. And for the record WestBrook outplayed Durant statistically last year against the Lakers in their playoff series. Go check Durant's shooting percentages last year in the playoffs.... real shaky.

AnubisADL wrote:If I was a Chicago Bulls fan I'd want Rose taking 40 shots. No one on that team can effectively create their own shot except Rose.

A POINT GUARD is supposed to get guys the ball to them in places they don't have to create a lot. A good Point Guard that is...... you know in places so they can finish and/or shoot open jumpers. All 5 players on a team are not supposed to be one-on-one players. What sport have you been watching over the yrs? Oh my bad I forgot you're a D-Wade fan and probably been taking in a lot of the Miami Heat and think every team should operate like them.

Rose is a good 2 Guard no debate there but

Deron Williams pretty much disspells any doubt about what Rose isn't capable of doing on this team on a consistent basis

In Utah Deron played with

Boozer
Korver
Milsap
Matthews
Memo
CJ Miles
Brewer
Fesenko

And on a regular dropped near 10+ ast getting his guys easy shots, which is similar to

Rose on the Bulls playing with

Boozer
Korver
Deng
Noah
Brewer
Thomas
Bogans
Gibson

See the similarities in depth? I'm not saying Rose shouldn't call his number a little more but 27,28,29,30 shots and not having the assist to back up an acceptable AST/FGA ratio leaves zero room for apologizing and creating a double standard here. Also Durant is 1 player. Name an adequate consistent scoring option besides Durant on OKC that WestBrook should be dropping dimes like crazy?

Juice wrote:

y2zipper wrote:It's not a double-standard. Derrick Rose is the best player on his team and is good enough to carry his team and Westbrook is not. When you're the best player on your team, you take the most shots and put the numbers not, and when you're not, you don't. Westbrook should be deferring to Durant because he's not as good as Durant. It's not that hard.

I agree about WestBrook but sorry you can't excuse Rose here

Wrong a POINT GUARD'S job is to make teammates better first and/or make sure there is equal balance between their personal abilities and those of their teammates.

Boozer(I believe has been to a WCF) has been in more playoff games than Rose as has Deng and possibly Korver.... so no pulling that card "who is he going to pass too" and "he's so much better than his teammates" is crap. Rose did not win 60gms playing with crappy players this year. Shooting 11-27 or 11-28 with low ast totals and suicide passes.... is unacceptable no matter how many 1/8gms he puts up 30-40pts.

I mean what is the alcohol proof level on Derrick Ring Around The Rosey Pocket Full Of James Poseys Kool-Aid some of you are intoxicated/inebriated/liquored up on?

When you take high volume shots and shoot low percentages on a good team, something is wrong. Rose deserves criticism. He is not infallible. He's not JC, although talking to some fans in the NBA circle you'd think he was. And for the record WestBrook outplayed Durant statistically last year against the Lakers in their playoff series. Go check Durant's shooting percentages last year in the playoffs.... real shaky.

You're problem is that you're too obsessed with the term POINT GUARD. If you look away from the semantics and the hair-splitting, you'll realize that positions are really distorted in the NBA and that the traditional point guard/shooting guard/small forward/power forward/ and center in their traditional roles and forms hardly exist in today's game. If Derrick Rose and Westbrook were called "shooting guards," you'd have nowhere near the same problem with them. I think of Derrick Rose as basically a De Facto shooting guard as I do Westbrook. It's like calling Tim Duncan a "center" even though he's actually a PF or LeBron James a "small forward" even though he's actually a poing guard or Derrick Fisher a "point guard" when he's actually a shooting guard. The names of the positions are meaningless other than to assign a spot to a guy on the floor. The roles that are traditional roles that you're automatically assigning to the position don't always exist in today's game. Take your blinders off.

Rose has been a one-man show in the playoffs so far. Boozer hasn't even shown up and hasn't been healthy, and the Bulls have been exposed as a one-superstar team where Rose has to do everything, so he does. This year's Bulls are last year's Cleveland Cavaliers, except they're a little more effective defensively.

Westbrook's case is different because he plays next to Durant. Maybe the two of them aren't the best fit together because they do the same thing, but we haven't seen Rose with anybody he can effectively defer to. If Carlos Boozer actually showed up, maybe that would be a different story.

knickstorrents wrote:Westbrook breaks down defenses and rebounds in traffic. Not sure why people have an issue with him.

see the tape of game 3's 4th quarter for the issue. not sure if its entirely on westbrook (where was the coach? durant wasn't necessarily open). he's still a young PG. but dribbling up the court, dribbling, dribbling, and then shooting with 5 on the shot clock for 5 straight possessions in the 4th quarter of a playoff game is not "winning basketball."

tkf wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:If I was a Chicago Bulls fan I'd want Rose taking 40 shots. No one on that team can effectively create their own shot except Rose.

right, it is rose job to create shots for them.. but rose is not good at that.. that is a huge flaw of his.. he has good shooters and guys who can score, it is his job to get them opportunities....

only 2 players have averaged more assists per game in the postseason than rose. just saying.

rose and westbrook are both supremely talented. the only bias that exists is at the media analysis level, where rose is favored b/c he's on TV more.

hard to blame westbrook though, they run no plays and the coach seems to tell him to just dribble up, let the clock run out, and shoot.