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Sixers, Hawks, Bulls, Hornets, and Pacers all changed coaches and improved
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CrushAlot
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4/29/2011  7:37 PM
I think these teams are great examples that shoot down the argument that a team can't change their coach because there isn't anyone out there that could do better. Except for Doug Collins all of these new coaches are first year guys and all have been very impressive. I think the Knicks need to move on from D'Antoni. There obviously were some very good coaches working as assistants last year that were ready to make the jump to head coach.
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JrZyHuStLa
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4/29/2011  7:45 PM
No, I rather waste another year of Amare and Carmelo's career.

Once we get eliminated in the first round next year again, then I'll be advocating a change.

JrZyHuStLa
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4/29/2011  7:53 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/29/2011  7:55 PM
Larry Drew, Doug Collins, Monty Williams, Tom Thibodeau, and Frank Vogel ALL maximized the effort and defense of their respective teams this postseason.

And for all the posters who keep excusing D'antoni because of injuries, Monty Williams challenged the 2 time NBA champs by pushing them to 6 games without his best scorer.

nixluva
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4/29/2011  7:55 PM
Uh Mike had a major change of his roster and still was right there in the playoffs with those other teams. How didn't he disappoint? If not for the untimely injuries to Billups and STAT and the fact that they only had 30 games together, the Knicks could still be playing. I don't see how it's evidence that a change at coach is needed. If he had missed the playoffs then I could see but the team didn't miss the playoffs and had a better record than the Pacers and Sixers. We finished 2 wins behind ATL and 4 wins less than NOH. How is that bad considering all that went on this year?
Juice
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4/29/2011  7:57 PM
You could theoretically add Lionel Hollins to the list considering he's a fairly new head coach and got his team to improve from the previous season and make the playoffs. Strong chance to close out their series tonight.
JrZyHuStLa
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4/29/2011  8:08 PM
Juice wrote:You could theoretically add Lionel Hollins to the list considering he's a fairly new head coach and got his team to improve from the previous season and make the playoffs. Strong chance to close out their series tonight.

It's too bad the Coach of the Year Award is only regular season related. I would seriously consider Hollins if Memphis was to overthrow the 1 seeded Spurs.

franco12
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4/29/2011  8:26 PM
I've been meaning to ask in a post if it means anything that we got swept.

I mean, pretty amazing that the knicks were the only team swept.

Juice
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4/29/2011  9:20 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/29/2011  10:17 PM
JrZyHuStLa wrote:
Juice wrote:You could theoretically add Lionel Hollins to the list considering he's a fairly new head coach and got his team to improve from the previous season and make the playoffs. Strong chance to close out their series tonight.

It's too bad the Coach of the Year Award is only regular season related. I would seriously consider Hollins if Memphis was to overthrow the 1 seeded Spurs.

I've never bought into the ludicrous idea we have a hard to replace coach. Really if there was that much incompetency on the sidelines in the NBA teams wouldn't be interviewing several coaching candidates when they have to replace a coach. Hollins and the Grizz would become a part of rare NBA history too.

martin
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4/29/2011  9:23 PM
franco12 wrote:I've been meaning to ask in a post if it means anything that we got swept.

I mean, pretty amazing that the knicks were the only team swept.

at full health, for sure. No Billups and almost no Amare? meaningless for me.

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JrZyHuStLa
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4/29/2011  9:29 PM
martin wrote:
franco12 wrote:I've been meaning to ask in a post if it means anything that we got swept.

I mean, pretty amazing that the knicks were the only team swept.

at full health, for sure. No Billups and almost no Amare? meaningless for me.

As Knicks fans I'm sure we'd both agree that Stat and Melo > Paul and West.

With that said, we lost Amare and they lost West. But they played a better team and still managed to win 2 games and we won 0.

Why is that excusable to you?

gr33d
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4/29/2011  9:58 PM
martin wrote:
franco12 wrote:I've been meaning to ask in a post if it means anything that we got swept.

I mean, pretty amazing that the knicks were the only team swept.

at full health, for sure. No Billups and almost no Amare? meaningless for me.

True and we just as easily could've had both games 1 and 2 in Boston.

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eViL
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4/29/2011  10:10 PM
Knicks went from 32 wins to 42 wins. Is that not improvement? Let me guess... that was because of Amare and the later Melo. They get credit for the improvement. MDA made us worse and all those other teams improved because of coaching.
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CrushAlot
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4/29/2011  10:25 PM
martin wrote:
franco12 wrote:I've been meaning to ask in a post if it means anything that we got swept.

I mean, pretty amazing that the knicks were the only team swept.

at full health, for sure. No Billups and almost no Amare? meaningless for me.

I think you could make a pretty strong argument that having Jeffries in the game coming out of a timeout for the most important offensive sequence in the last 7 years when the opposing team was doubling your star was a pretty meaningful f-up. I think that possession lost the game. I think the end of game coaching in both games 1 and 2 contributed or caused the Knicks to lose. I also think there has been a three year tenure here and while there has been some adversity with the roster there also has been some mistakes, drama, poor coaching, and rigidity on display that I think indicate this guy is not the right coach.
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Juice
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4/29/2011  10:26 PM
JrZyHuStLa wrote:
martin wrote:
franco12 wrote:I've been meaning to ask in a post if it means anything that we got swept.

I mean, pretty amazing that the knicks were the only team swept.

at full health, for sure. No Billups and almost no Amare? meaningless for me.

As Knicks fans I'm sure we'd both agree that Stat and Melo > Paul and West.

With that said, we lost Amare and they lost West. But they played a better team and still managed to win 2 games and we won 0.

Why is that excusable to you?


If we hadn't played our absolute worst games at home after such a long drought maybe just maybe we could find ways to silver line but


How did the Bulls win 60+ games losing Noah and Boozer for 25-30% of the season?

How are the Grizzlies up on the Spurs without Gay?

How did the Blazers win 50+gms with Roy out for 40% of the season and injuries to Camby/Oden?

Juice
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4/29/2011  10:29 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
martin wrote:
franco12 wrote:I've been meaning to ask in a post if it means anything that we got swept.

I mean, pretty amazing that the knicks were the only team swept.

at full health, for sure. No Billups and almost no Amare? meaningless for me.

I think you could make a pretty strong argument that having Jeffries in the game coming out of a timeout for the most important offensive sequence in the last 7 years when the opposing team was doubling your star was a pretty meaningful f-up. I think that possession lost the game. I think the end of game coaching in both games 1 and 2 contributed or caused the Knicks to lose. I also think there has been a three year tenure here and while there has been some adversity with the roster there also has been some mistakes, drama, poor coaching, and rigidity on display that I think indicate this guy is not the right coach.

Remember Effries was part of another coaching debacle in Portland.? You know when the team had no idea what the foul situation was out of a time out mind you and Roy drove in for a score with no time on clock for a win?

CrushAlot
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4/29/2011  10:30 PM
eViL wrote:Knicks went from 32 wins to 42 wins. Is that not improvement? Let me guess... that was because of Amare and the later Melo. They get credit for the improvement. MDA made us worse and all those other teams improved because of coaching.
I think the Knicks won 29 games so you could make the case that they improved more. However I think you would need to look at each of those teams individually to see who they added and how much they improved. The only record I know is the Bulls because I continue to wish the Knicks hired Thibs when they gave Chaney the job. The Bulls won 21 more games. They added Boozer but he was hurt for a good part of the season. I don't know the exact record of the other franchises but I think all of their coaches emphasize d and play bigs and I think the Knicks need a coach that does that if they are going to advance in the playoffs in the future.
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ramtour420
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4/29/2011  10:31 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/29/2011  10:32 PM
Ok, there are 2 sides of this arguement. Side one says that Knicks minus Billups and minus Amare = the suck and therefore its totally expected to lose the series to the Celts(being the only team swept is not relevan't really). I completely agree, because it is a bulletproof arguement and its true. The 2nd side to this arguement is that game 2,for whatever reason(take your pick of MDA being amazing, Celtics being vulnerable, Melo being the man, all of the above thats not really relevant either) it was our game to take. Game one was taken away by the refs and the alley hoop to Garnet, game 2 we just had to make that little huge play that separates the teams that lose games from the teams that win games. We were the former. And here is the salt of this side of the arguement. The reason why we couldn't make that little huge play in game 2 in very relevant. Please take your pick out of the following: A. Jeffries is a scrub. Fair, but he should not have had the chance to be responsible for that play. Which brings us to why: B. Melo is a scrub, he should not have passed it to JJ and just take the shot. Also fair, given how he was having the playoff game of his career. But he was covered by 2 or even 3 guys and in BB thats a bad shot. So him passing it off should have led to a pretty play to finish off the Celts, except that it didn't. Why? Well, let me bring up the 3rd, and my favorite reason as to why. C. MDA. Was there a solid play drawn up to be run during the most important possession of the last 7 years? Were the correct players in the game at the time when D was irrelevant and we just needed a score? Aren't those the things that a coach is responsible for? No, NO and apparently NO. I don't understand why MDA gets a pass just because we had injuries, there are still things that are expected from a coach no matter what.
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y2zipper
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4/29/2011  10:50 PM
ramtour420 wrote:Ok, there are 2 sides of this arguement. Side one says that Knicks minus Billups and minus Amare = the suck and therefore its totally expected to lose the series to the Celts(being the only team swept is not relevan't really). I completely agree, because it is a bulletproof arguement and its true. The 2nd side to this arguement is that game 2,for whatever reason(take your pick of MDA being amazing, Celtics being vulnerable, Melo being the man, all of the above thats not really relevant either) it was our game to take. Game one was taken away by the refs and the alley hoop to Garnet, game 2 we just had to make that little huge play that separates the teams that lose games from the teams that win games. We were the former. And here is the salt of this side of the arguement. The reason why we couldn't make that little huge play in game 2 in very relevant. Please take your pick out of the following: A. Jeffries is a scrub. Fair, but he should not have had the chance to be responsible for that play. Which brings us to why: B. Melo is a scrub, he should not have passed it to JJ and just take the shot. Also fair, given how he was having the playoff game of his career. But he was covered by 2 or even 3 guys and in BB thats a bad shot. So him passing it off should have led to a pretty play to finish off the Celts, except that it didn't. Why? Well, let me bring up the 3rd, and my favorite reason as to why. C. MDA. Was there a solid play drawn up to be run during the most important possession of the last 7 years? Were the correct players in the game at the time when D was irrelevant and we just needed a score? Aren't those the things that a coach is responsible for? No, NO and apparently NO. I don't understand why MDA gets a pass just because we had injuries, there are still things that are expected from a coach no matter what.

Carmelo gets a pass because he made the right basketball play. He was double-teamed and he passed to an open guy about five feet from the basket. It's not his fault that Jared Jeffries gets paid to be an NBA big man but can't finish from that spot. Jared Jeffries is a joke. Hell I could have a shot from right there.

As far as the D'Antoni argument goes, it's easy to say that Jared Jeffries shouldn't be in the game and you're right, but him even being there goes back to the injuries, doesn't it? If the Knicks were completely healthy, I don't think Jared Jeffries would be in the game at that point and neither should anybody else. If the healthy lineup of Chauncey, Melo, Amare, Turiaf and Douglas/Fields is in there it probably turns out differently.

As far as having a play drawn up, I don't know how that possession could have gone any better. He gave the ball to Melo and said "make a play," which Melo did. You can't really ask for anything easier than your center basically having a dunk, and it's not Mike D's fault that Jeffries is so offensively inept that he's too scared to put the ball in the hoop.

Jeffries is a scrub, and that's why the play went the way it went. D'Antoni's job is to put the ball in the hands of his best player at the end of the game, which he did, and it's Melo's job to make the best basketball play, which he did also. At the end of the day, you need better players than Jared Jeffries and everybody knows that.

nixluva
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4/29/2011  10:53 PM
Come on guys you really are being totally unreasonable. That's to be expected with some fans in NY. Being unreasonable is almost expected from NY fans. Like wanting a winning team and then being impatient as that team rebuilds to become a winner. This team is finally going in a great direction and that's not enough for some people.

In answer to your questions, the other teams are pretty good. They were able to survive the loss of a talent because they actually had more talent on the team. We pretty much spent 2 years tearing our team down so that we could get STAT, we threw a bunch of new guys together and had to blend those players together and then you also had the big trade. In addition all those coaches you mentioned did a great job. You put those 2 things together and you can have a good year. The Knicks had a totally different situation going on here, but let's forget all the major change we had coming into the season, the stress of the fear leading up to the trade deadline, then all the adjusting after the trade and then the injuries in the playoffs. Just ignore all of that tho.

CrushAlot
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4/29/2011  10:56 PM
y2zipper wrote:
ramtour420 wrote:Ok, there are 2 sides of this arguement. Side one says that Knicks minus Billups and minus Amare = the suck and therefore its totally expected to lose the series to the Celts(being the only team swept is not relevan't really). I completely agree, because it is a bulletproof arguement and its true. The 2nd side to this arguement is that game 2,for whatever reason(take your pick of MDA being amazing, Celtics being vulnerable, Melo being the man, all of the above thats not really relevant either) it was our game to take. Game one was taken away by the refs and the alley hoop to Garnet, game 2 we just had to make that little huge play that separates the teams that lose games from the teams that win games. We were the former. And here is the salt of this side of the arguement. The reason why we couldn't make that little huge play in game 2 in very relevant. Please take your pick out of the following: A. Jeffries is a scrub. Fair, but he should not have had the chance to be responsible for that play. Which brings us to why: B. Melo is a scrub, he should not have passed it to JJ and just take the shot. Also fair, given how he was having the playoff game of his career. But he was covered by 2 or even 3 guys and in BB thats a bad shot. So him passing it off should have led to a pretty play to finish off the Celts, except that it didn't. Why? Well, let me bring up the 3rd, and my favorite reason as to why. C. MDA. Was there a solid play drawn up to be run during the most important possession of the last 7 years? Were the correct players in the game at the time when D was irrelevant and we just needed a score? Aren't those the things that a coach is responsible for? No, NO and apparently NO. I don't understand why MDA gets a pass just because we had injuries, there are still things that are expected from a coach no matter what.

Carmelo gets a pass because he made the right basketball play. He was double-teamed and he passed to an open guy about five feet from the basket. It's not his fault that Jared Jeffries gets paid to be an NBA big man but can't finish from that spot. Jared Jeffries is a joke. Hell I could have a shot from right there.

As far as the D'Antoni argument goes, it's easy to say that Jared Jeffries shouldn't be in the game and you're right, but him even being there goes back to the injuries, doesn't it? If the Knicks were completely healthy, I don't think Jared Jeffries would be in the game at that point and neither should anybody else. If the healthy lineup of Chauncey, Melo, Amare, Turiaf and Douglas/Fields is in there it probably turns out differently.

As far as having a play drawn up, I don't know how that possession could have gone any better. He gave the ball to Melo and said "make a play," which Melo did. You can't really ask for anything easier than your center basically having a dunk, and it's not Mike D's fault that Jeffries is so offensively inept that he's too scared to put the ball in the hoop.

Jeffries is a scrub, and that's why the play went the way it went. D'Antoni's job is to put the ball in the hands of his best player at the end of the game, which he did, and it's Melo's job to make the best basketball play, which he did also. At the end of the day, you need better players than Jared Jeffries and everybody knows that.


You could make a very convincing argument that Jeffries is the worst offensive player in the NBA. There were guys on the bench at that point that could have been put in the game. Williams and Turiaff were on the bench. There are some marquee guys, Howard, Shaq, Wallace that are pulled by their coaches on offensive possesions where they might have to shoot foul shots that could decide the game. Everyone knew that the Celtics were going to double Carmelo off of someone. To put the worst offensive player on your roster on the floor for the most important offensive possesion in 7 years is on the coach. I don't see anyway that you can spin that.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Sixers, Hawks, Bulls, Hornets, and Pacers all changed coaches and improved

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