That didn't happen because with all the ball movement, and SSOL it treats all the players like theyre equal. And theyre not.
In fact it gives too much power to the PGs TD and CB who both shoot too damn much.

Last night we came up the court, and gave Melo the ball in ISO for about 1.5 quarters. He didn't shoot it every time, but he made enough to have the other team focus on him.

We could have won more games playing this style while we learn. Of course the D was also super intense, but we couldve beaten Cha, Cle, and Mil, with just a shootout.

I'm not advocating it, I'm just saying. STars can win you games, but not when the coach thinks he's the star.

Now, if we have a training camp to work SSOL with this roster plus whatever pieces we add and it doesn't work, then we ahve the wrong coach.

I think with these players we have the wrong coach. But as I said I hope he proves me wrong.

Killa4luv wrote:

MSG3 wrote:I agree. Not to say SSOL can't work, but for the purposes of this season if we had played a more traditional offense which let our stars take the bulk of the shots we'd still be around 5 games over .500 probably.

Now, if we have a training camp to work SSOL with this roster plus whatever pieces we add and it doesn't work, then we ahve the wrong coach.

I think with these players we have the wrong coach. But as I said I hope he proves me wrong.

totally agree. plus with SSOL we have on many nights, guards taking more shots than Amare or Melo our 2 best players. I just don't see how that will ever make any sense.

Totally agree, SSOL gives everyone the green light which in our case isn't a good thing.

I've said this to co-workers and friends, whether you like Melo or not- a bad shot by him, is still a good shot. Against a triple team, fading away from 28ft is a better look then a layup from Jefferies.

I'd guess that we could run half our plays through Melo and come away with quality shots most times. He'll either create space for himself or draw the double to free someone up. I'm not agaginst the pick and roll, we just don't have PG's very good at running the damn play.

gr33d wrote:I've said this to co-workers and friends, whether you like Melo or not- a bad shot by him, is still a good shot. Against a triple team, fading away from 28ft is a better look then a layup from Jefferies.

But that's not the complete premise is it? A bad shot by Melo who is being triple team with 20 seconds left on the clock is not a better shot than Amare with a layup, is it?

I don't think anyone has any problem with Melo, Amare taking an iso shot at the end of the clock or when either is feeling it; that's their time and they should be doing this from time to time.

But system is there for everyone else, and the whole season with a system is about getting those other guys to contribute too.

JrZyHuStLa wrote:We ditched LOSS, which is why we won.

Props, I like it.

nixluva wrote:

martin wrote:

gr33d wrote:I've said this to co-workers and friends, whether you like Melo or not- a bad shot by him, is still a good shot. Against a triple team, fading away from 28ft is a better look then a layup from Jefferies.

But that's not the complete premise is it? A bad shot by Melo who is being triple team with 20 seconds left on the clock is not a better shot than Amare with a layup, is it?

I don't think anyone has any problem with Melo, Amare taking an iso shot at the end of the clock or when either is feeling it; that's their time and they should be doing this from time to time.

But system is there for everyone else, and the whole season with a system is about getting those other guys to contribute too.

Yeah and for all you guys who keep calling the offense a gimmick, bite on this, when it's run properly it yielded some of the most highly efficient offense in the league. 05-06 FG% 48%, 06-07 50%. We haven't really been running the SSOL for much of his time here. Duhon couldn't run it. Felton had a pretty good stretch where he was OK doing it and now we have NO PG that can run it. Let's use some logic here. It's not that the system is bad. It's that the players we have aren't good enough.

So why was the system so efficient? Well the 2 guys at the heart of it were efficient scorers. Nash and STAT both at or above 50%. We might not see this team be that good, but we can be close. Since the trade the Knicks FG% has dropped. I think we could change for right now, but I think that SSOL fits Amare and the rest of the roster very well. Melo can surely adapt to it if given time. It's not like it's an impossible system for a great scorer to play in. In fact he's not really a problem for SSOL, it's the lack of a PG right now that is the biggest issue.

Killa4luv wrote:

nixluva wrote:

martin wrote:

gr33d wrote:I've said this to co-workers and friends, whether you like Melo or not- a bad shot by him, is still a good shot. Against a triple team, fading away from 28ft is a better look then a layup from Jefferies.

But that's not the complete premise is it? A bad shot by Melo who is being triple team with 20 seconds left on the clock is not a better shot than Amare with a layup, is it?

I don't think anyone has any problem with Melo, Amare taking an iso shot at the end of the clock or when either is feeling it; that's their time and they should be doing this from time to time.

But system is there for everyone else, and the whole season with a system is about getting those other guys to contribute too.

Yeah and for all you guys who keep calling the offense a gimmick, bite on this, when it's run properly it yielded some of the most highly efficient offense in the league. 05-06 FG% 48%, 06-07 50%. We haven't really been running the SSOL for much of his time here. Duhon couldn't run it. Felton had a pretty good stretch where he was OK doing it and now we have NO PG that can run it. Let's use some logic here. It's not that the system is bad. It's that the players we have aren't good enough.

So why was the system so efficient? Well the 2 guys at the heart of it were efficient scorers. Nash and STAT both at or above 50%. We might not see this team be that good, but we can be close. Since the trade the Knicks FG% has dropped. I think we could change for right now, but I think that SSOL fits Amare and the rest of the roster very well. Melo can surely adapt to it if given time. It's not like it's an impossible system for a great scorer to play in. In fact he's not really a problem for SSOL, it's the lack of a PG right now that is the biggest issue.

I don't know how well u can judge a system when it is run by 2 of the best players in the league. Amare was in his prime and Steve Nash was one of the top 2 or 3 pgs in the game, and it was a system which complimented his strengths perfectly. Its difficult to evaluate how good the system is. Let Toronto run it and lets see how it works.

Sometimes you have a system and you get the guys to run the system. Sometimes you have guys and change your initial system to fit the roster. I am not sure what happened in PHO, chick or egg; was MDA running SSOL with Marbuy and Penny or did SSOL come about as he learned about what Amare and Nash could do?

Right now the Knicks are in flux. New dudes and a system that may or may not be in place.

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

nixluva wrote:The Spurs are running a version of SSOL as is PHX and to a certain degree the Magic play a similar style of spread the floor with Shooters. This is a successful style but you have to have players buy in and execute. CB more than Melo is a guy that has abandoned the system. I actually don't like the SSOL moniker, cuz the only team to really run it was PHX. Since then we've been seeing teams use Mike's SPREAD offense. It works if you have a Tim Duncan or Howard in the middle and surround them with great shooting, ball movement and penetration. I repeat there is NOTHING WRONG with the system. If we actually ran it properly we'd mostly likely have won some of the games we lost. Efficient offense is a plus not a negative.

There's nothing wrong with the similar style of offense that San Antonio runs, because that system still produces plenty of points off of defense and forced turnovers. Popovich would never allow the Spurs to completely neglect defense and rely solely on shots falling like Dantoni.

People keeps saying this over and over, but it doesn't make it true. D'Antoni is not looking to de-emphasize defense. It appears to me that he's been focusing on defense a lot, however, it can't be ignored that we have a team that wasn't built to be great defensively. Not without great effort, teamwork and defensive chemistry.

The teamwork and chemistry part also goes hand in hand with the coach knowing what his rotations will be. He's been having trouble just finding a combination of players that works. This is very common when you give a coach new players that are not that good or don't fit well. Sometimes players work and other times they don't. Is Shelden the answer to our problems inside? Perhaps he can be effective in certain matchups. Then when we play teams that don't have a Howard he may not be as effective, cuz he doesn't move well and can't jump.

My point is that we created more issues than we had originally with the trade. Then we're asking Mike to figure it all out on the fly with parts that don't fit as well as the ones we had before. In addition the key players are having issues of their own. CB and STAT slumping and not being in synch is a huge problem. It's taking away our biggest weapon on offense and the motor that made the role players more effective.