[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Killa's 3 keys to Knicks Offense
Author Thread
Killa4luv
Posts: 27769
Alba Posts: 51
Joined: 6/23/2002
Member: #261
USA
3/25/2011  1:57 PM
Toney Douglas & Dribble penetration: Dribble penetration leads to high percentage shots. Either the man dribble driving can finish at the rim, draw a foul, or cause the defense to collapse creating an open man. We do not do this often or well. TDouglas is the only guy who can reliably provide this (because of his speed) and we need him to mix this up and not shoot so many 3's, even tho hes shooting well as of late. If he drives to the lane more, it will create easier opportunities for everyone, including him. It will make him a better distributor.

I believe we have something special in Toney Douglas. He's a good defender and he can shoot, and he can put points up. He just needs to take it to the rack more often and run the pick and roll better. He's a very valuable asset tho, and he can put up big numbers some nights, we need him.

Carmelo should take the most shots on most nights.
Look at the loss to Orlando. Melo 12 fga, Amare 20, Billups 12, Douglas 14
Melo was the most efficient scorer by alot. He shot 10-11 from the line. Made half of his shots, and lead the 'team in scoring. TD shot 50% too, but only had 17 to Melos 24 while taking 2 more fga's. TD doesn't drive to the basket often so he got 0 foul shots.

If you look at the last few losses, Melo has played well, and has generally not gotten enough shots off when it was obvious he was hot. He was torching Pierce, and we didn't stay with that and make them adjust. He was playing well against Poorlando and unfortunately Amare want. We should have put Melo into pnr with Douglas who aslo shot well.

Systems are not for star players, they are for everyone else.

Ball movement is good, getting others involved is good, but when you have a guy who can score and who is hot, sometimes you want to ride that for a minute and put the system to the side for a minute. The point is to score and win, not to follow the system at all costs, right?

Sometimes instead of finding the open man, you just need to find "the man." Let the guy go off when it looks like he is ready to go off. Force the other guys to adjust. This NEVER happens, and other teams do it against us all the time!! WHy? because it works. No one could guard Dwight Howard ? Keep giving him the ball, lets keep people in foul trouble, until they figure it out. and start to double, then ball movement and finding the open man is what you do.

AUTOADVERT
Anji
Posts: 25523
Alba Posts: 9
Joined: 4/14/2006
Member: #1122
USA
3/25/2011  2:31 PM
I agree with you killa, but we have to be real here, this coach and this offense isn't really about anything you are posting.

SSOL isn't run to get any one or two players a shot outside of the point guard. Which is a big reason why this team looks so bad offensively too often. It's hard for me to put in words, but it seems this pie in the sky offense really doesn't work without 5 guys who are equally talented and a really good point guard.

I know people still argue if Nash made this offense or if the offense made Nash, but it is pretty clear to me that a top notch point guard is needed to shift thru this jumpshooting bull**** offense.

I image that the suns also had this open guy in the corner or wing or top of the key characteristics in their offense, but Nash is a great point guard and can dictate if the offense was going to feed Amare for forty points or if Joe Johnson was hot and needed a couple of possessions. If they were going to gun for 25 plus three pointers or get 60 points in the paint.

Right now we don't have a strong point to do those things IMO.

"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
NYKBocker
Posts: 38411
Alba Posts: 474
Joined: 1/14/2003
Member: #377
USA
3/25/2011  2:56 PM
Right now, I would just keep putting the ball on Melo's hands and run the PnR with him and Amare. Force Melo to make a pass. This should also be good for him because he can hit the midrange shot.
arkrud
Posts: 32217
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 8/31/2005
Member: #995
USA
3/25/2011  4:34 PM
Anji wrote:I agree with you killa, but we have to be real here, this coach and this offense isn't really about anything you are posting.

SSOL isn't run to get any one or two players a shot outside of the point guard. Which is a big reason why this team looks so bad offensively too often. It's hard for me to put in words, but it seems this pie in the sky offense really doesn't work without 5 guys who are equally talented and a really good point guard.

I know people still argue if Nash made this offense or if the offense made Nash, but it is pretty clear to me that a top notch point guard is needed to shift thru this jumpshooting bull**** offense.

I image that the suns also had this open guy in the corner or wing or top of the key characteristics in their offense, but Nash is a great point guard and can dictate if the offense was going to feed Amare for forty points or if Joe Johnson was hot and needed a couple of possessions. If they were going to gun for 25 plus three pointers or get 60 points in the paint.

Right now we don't have a strong point to do those things IMO.

Not only equaly talented but also very alike physically.
Mike players should be able to switch any time. And Knicks as constructed cannot defend anybody on the switch.
Also Mike team needs outstanding individual rebounders and we are not even marginal.
This team so far away form finished product so it is not even funny.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Olbrannon
Posts: 21913
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 10/2/2009
Member: #2919
USA
3/25/2011  4:51 PM
arkrud wrote:
Anji wrote:I agree with you killa, but we have to be real here, this coach and this offense isn't really about anything you are posting.

SSOL isn't run to get any one or two players a shot outside of the point guard. Which is a big reason why this team looks so bad offensively too often. It's hard for me to put in words, but it seems this pie in the sky offense really doesn't work without 5 guys who are equally talented and a really good point guard.

I know people still argue if Nash made this offense or if the offense made Nash, but it is pretty clear to me that a top notch point guard is needed to shift thru this jumpshooting bull**** offense.

I image that the suns also had this open guy in the corner or wing or top of the key characteristics in their offense, but Nash is a great point guard and can dictate if the offense was going to feed Amare for forty points or if Joe Johnson was hot and needed a couple of possessions. If they were going to gun for 25 plus three pointers or get 60 points in the paint.

Right now we don't have a strong point to do those things IMO.

Not only equaly talented but also very alike physically.
Mike players should be able to switch any time. And Knicks as constructed cannot defend anybody on the switch.
Also Mike team needs outstanding individual rebounders and we are not even marginal.
This team so far away form finished product so it is not even funny.

I cannot confess to witnessing any of these teams. Is this how Nash got to be a defensive liablity?

Bill Simmons on Tyreke Evans "The prototypical 0-guard: Someone who handles the ball all the time, looks for his own shot, gets to the rim at will and operates best if his teammates spread the floor to watch him."
nixluva
Posts: 56258
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
3/25/2011  5:36 PM
The SSOL system is just the most popular trait of the system, but the offense is much more than that. I would say that if everyone had a chance to actually study the plays and see what this team is SUPPOSED to actually be doing, they'd be shocked at how bad we have been at executing this system. EVERYONE gets off in this system when it's run correctly. Stars and role players alike will flourish when this system is executed properly. Knowing that there are over 100 plays and multiple variations and options in each set, it's obvious that we're not even seeing a fraction of the system right now.

I promise you that if you have a Deron or CP3 in this system you'll see something you haven't seen from this team in ages. We still need a PG and C to make things right. I'd add a SG to that list too.

holfresh
Posts: 38679
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081

3/25/2011  5:49 PM
Killa4luv wrote:Toney Douglas & Dribble penetration: Dribble penetration leads to high percentage shots. Either the man dribble driving can finish at the rim, draw a foul, or cause the defense to collapse creating an open man. We do not do this often or well. TDouglas is the only guy who can reliably provide this (because of his speed) and we need him to mix this up and not shoot so many 3's, even tho hes shooting well as of late. If he drives to the lane more, it will create easier opportunities for everyone, including him. It will make him a better distributor.

I believe we have something special in Toney Douglas. He's a good defender and he can shoot, and he can put points up. He just needs to take it to the rack more often and run the pick and roll better. He's a very valuable asset tho, and he can put up big numbers some nights, we need him.

Carmelo should take the most shots on most nights.
Look at the loss to Orlando. Melo 12 fga, Amare 20, Billups 12, Douglas 14
Melo was the most efficient scorer by alot. He shot 10-11 from the line. Made half of his shots, and lead the 'team in scoring. TD shot 50% too, but only had 17 to Melos 24 while taking 2 more fga's. TD doesn't drive to the basket often so he got 0 foul shots.

If you look at the last few losses, Melo has played well, and has generally not gotten enough shots off when it was obvious he was hot. He was torching Pierce, and we didn't stay with that and make them adjust. He was playing well against Poorlando and unfortunately Amare want. We should have put Melo into pnr with Douglas who aslo shot well.

Systems are not for star players, they are for everyone else.

Ball movement is good, getting others involved is good, but when you have a guy who can score and who is hot, sometimes you want to ride that for a minute and put the system to the side for a minute. The point is to score and win, not to follow the system at all costs, right?

Sometimes instead of finding the open man, you just need to find "the man." Let the guy go off when it looks like he is ready to go off. Force the other guys to adjust. This NEVER happens, and other teams do it against us all the time!! WHy? because it works. No one could guard Dwight Howard ? Keep giving him the ball, lets keep people in foul trouble, until they figure it out. and start to double, then ball movement and finding the open man is what you do.

I think the biggest key is Melo taking more shots...Seems like he is hearing the chirping about being a selfish player, so he is looking to pass more...We need to coach to step in and tell him take his shot...I do like the passes tho...

Killa's 3 keys to Knicks Offense

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy