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Who goes first?
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grillco
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3/21/2011  9:59 AM
Let's say the Knicks stay at .500 for the rest of season, still manage to maintain the 6 or 7 seed in the playoffs and don't make it to the second round...who's gone first?

Clearly it should be Dolan who should have trusted Walsh's experience and therefore tactics in pursuit of Anthony, BUT we all know that's not going to happen. I do keep hoping that Charles will just give his son the smack down and take the team back and hand it over to someone like Walsh, but again it doesn't seem like something that would happen anytime soon or at all give the train wreck he let Jimmy preside over for the better part of the last decade.

So it is D'Antoni (almost definitely) or Walsh? OR both? Someone would have to take the fall as clearly Jimmy couldn't accept that they may have conceded too quickly and will need Walsh to work some of his magic to rebuild the depth this off season. Instead, heads will roll.

I like Mike and Walsh. I think they were on the same page and had a really good thing going until Dolan swooped in. Even if Walsh had eventually conceded the same deal, it would have been better for him to do so on his terms instead of Dolan butting in. There is clearly tension at the mecca and at least one major player won't be back next year.

It's got to be at least Mike, maybe he and Walsh. I don't see Mike staying without Walsh, but Dolan has done dumber things. And then who will fill the vacancies?

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SupremeCommander
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3/21/2011  10:49 AM
Well, it depends if Walsh *wants* to come back. His contract is up at the end of the year and he's free to do what he wants. Larry Bird's contract is also up, so maybe he goes back to Indiana. Assuming Walsh wants to come back, MDA goes because Melo is Dolan's prized acquisition
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Nalod
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3/21/2011  10:52 AM
Why does anyone have to go?

Most likely Walsh walks but Warkenten is alreay in place.

MDA should adapt SSOL which Melo has to know was gonna be the deal.

Extend MDA and get the roster balanced.

Laying fault and firing people won't bring defensive help in. Bring in a Defensive coach at the cost of stagnation of the offense and alienating your "Stars".

These Guys came to NY to be coached by MDA. Bring in a douche bag like Skiles to rant an rave will not sit well with our "Stars".

Great coaches are arrogant and don't bend. They want the other team to adapt.

MDA does not have the "juice card" but I admire him for thinking like he does. This roster is challanged and while MDA strengths are not in defense it does not help to have the current roster in that area.

If everyone wants to come back I am just fine with "nobody has to go".

grillco
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3/21/2011  10:56 AM
Nalod wrote:Why does anyone have to go?

Most likely Walsh walks but Warkenten is alreay in place.

MDA should adapt SSOL which Melo has to know was gonna be the deal.

Extend MDA and get the roster balanced.

Laying fault and firing people won't bring defensive help in. Bring in a Defensive coach at the cost of stagnation of the offense and alienating your "Stars".

These Guys came to NY to be coached by MDA. Bring in a douche bag like Skiles to rant an rave will not sit well with our "Stars".

Great coaches are arrogant and don't bend. They want the other team to adapt.

MDA does not have the "juice card" but I admire him for thinking like he does. This roster is challanged and while MDA strengths are not in defense it does not help to have the current roster in that area.

If everyone wants to come back I am just fine with "nobody has to go".

This was strictly based on the scenario detailed in my OP, wherein the team floats around .500 and is one and done. I don't think that will float well with Dolan. I believe that he thought this trade was going to have immediate positive impact and if it remains on course and does not he's going to want to blame someone for his hasty decision making. Maybe I'm wrong and he's patient and lets things develop naturally giving everyone the time they need to make...who are we kidding?!? He couldn't let Walsh do his job, so if things aren't the way he assumed, he's going to lash out in some manner.

martin
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3/21/2011  11:12 AM
grillco wrote:This was strictly based on the scenario detailed in my OP, wherein the team floats around .500 and is one and done. I don't think that will float well with Dolan. I believe that he thought this trade was going to have immediate positive impact and if it remains on course and does not he's going to want to blame someone for his hasty decision making. Maybe I'm wrong and he's patient and lets things develop naturally giving everyone the time they need to make...who are we kidding?!? He couldn't let Walsh do his job, so if things aren't the way he assumed, he's going to lash out in some manner.

Perhaps your opening assumption was wrong? I never got that sense from Dolan. In fact, I don't think Dolan has ever showed us he had any sense.

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JesseDark
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3/21/2011  11:16 AM
I don't think we were getting to second round no matter what. It's just a matter of how we are playing. A few weeks back we had a punchers chance, now we will be luck to win a game in the playoffs. Our weaknesses are being exposed at center and right now Billups isn't capable of giving us what we need at the point. That being said I think during the off season D'Antonio will want to spend more time with his family.
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LivingLegend
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3/21/2011  12:11 PM
D'Antoni will be fired --- seems pretty straight forward to me.

Regardless of what has been said publicly I have to suspect that Walsh has NOT been happy with D'Antoni's inability or reluctance to balance us out defensively.

I also don't think it takes a rocket scientist to realize that Melo and Billups are NOT built for a system that relies on running and gunning 3=pointers. They can handle that offensively but they kill us in transition defense.

Knicksfan
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3/21/2011  12:15 PM
If the Knicks end up under .500 and are bounced back in the first round with the same issues we've had all season, pre-trade and post-trade Knicks alike, I can;t imagine NY keeping D'Antoni. What does that mean to Walsh remains to be seen, but wouldn't be shocked if both were gone for next season.
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nixluva
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3/21/2011  12:34 PM
The team falling apart may be too much for MDA to survive, but if they are .500 and make the playoffs, he's not going to be fired. I'm convinced that this franchise wants a full set of swings at this next season. The plan was to give D'Antoni a title contending team to coach and so far we haven't finished that process.

IMO talent is more important than coach. You do need a competent coach to get over the top, but no great coach can will his team to a title if it doesn't have the talent. You could probably switch a dozen NBA coaches with Phil Jackson and the Lakers would still be a top team based on talent alone. Winning titles is a different argument, but winning in the regular season is mostly about the talent on the floor. I'm not talking about incompetent coaches, but the better coaches in the league will likely give you similar results during a season.

MDA is a competent coach. I expect Donnie and Dolan want to give him a chance with a roster that has some further enhancements to make it more competitive on the higher levels.

Nalod
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3/21/2011  12:36 PM
grillco wrote:
Nalod wrote:Why does anyone have to go?

Most likely Walsh walks but Warkenten is alreay in place.

MDA should adapt SSOL which Melo has to know was gonna be the deal.

Extend MDA and get the roster balanced.

Laying fault and firing people won't bring defensive help in. Bring in a Defensive coach at the cost of stagnation of the offense and alienating your "Stars".

These Guys came to NY to be coached by MDA. Bring in a douche bag like Skiles to rant an rave will not sit well with our "Stars".

Great coaches are arrogant and don't bend. They want the other team to adapt.

MDA does not have the "juice card" but I admire him for thinking like he does. This roster is challanged and while MDA strengths are not in defense it does not help to have the current roster in that area.

If everyone wants to come back I am just fine with "nobody has to go".

This was strictly based on the scenario detailed in my OP, wherein the team floats around .500 and is one and done. I don't think that will float well with Dolan. I believe that he thought this trade was going to have immediate positive impact and if it remains on course and does not he's going to want to blame someone for his hasty decision making. Maybe I'm wrong and he's patient and lets things develop naturally giving everyone the time they need to make...who are we kidding?!? He couldn't let Walsh do his job, so if things aren't the way he assumed, he's going to lash out in some manner.

Dolan all of a sudden has some "Sense" of wanting to win?

Your looking for logic where it does not exist. He will build the team for star power but not for the logic of winning.

If he can't get PHil Jax in here then who fills the role? What big name coach that can write his own ticket would want to coach here except for money? Lets assume a coach who can write his own ticket can get that money elsewhere.

MDA is an attractive coach to play for. You think Melo would have wanted to play for a defensive minded coach?

Knicksfan
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3/21/2011  1:13 PM
nixluva wrote:The team falling apart may be too much for MDA to survive, but if they are .500 and make the playoffs, he's not going to be fired. I'm convinced that this franchise wants a full set of swings at this next season. The plan was to give D'Antoni a title contending team to coach and so far we haven't finished that process.

IMO talent is more important than coach. You do need a competent coach to get over the top, but no great coach can will his team to a title if it doesn't have the talent. You could probably switch a dozen NBA coaches with Phil Jackson and the Lakers would still be a top team based on talent alone. Winning titles is a different argument, but winning in the regular season is mostly about the talent on the floor. I'm not talking about incompetent coaches, but the better coaches in the league will likely give you similar results during a season.

MDA is a competent coach. I expect Donnie and Dolan want to give him a chance with a roster that has some further enhancements to make it more competitive on the higher levels.

Talent is directly related to coaching, especially when that coach has a special system and likes to play a certain way. Around the league, any player that is better than the one had is an improvement. Here in NY with D'Antoni, only a few players fit his criteria and his style of play, and that subject gets touchy when talking about big men since he won't play anyone but those with certain characteristics. This is why some here, myself included, are worried about D'Antoni and fear having him for another season.

We fans are closer to the 90's Knicks than the new style we play. We won in the 90's (not the championship, but were contenders) and we know that style is successful. That style may have died down but isn't completely gone since contenders like Boston, L.A. and San Antonio play a similar "grind out" play. Now, D'Antoni's style is intriguing, but the fact that defense seems secondary and the roster is used in unconventional ways scares many, especially when you have serious pieces to compete for a championship.

What good does bringing talent do when it may not be used or used to fit a system rather than to take the best out of that talent? You can't simply make a list of all the 7 footers, for example, that could help our team without considering how they would fit in D'Antoni's offense. The fact that D'Antoni himself has expressed and shown his love for the small lineup, even with big guys on the team, and has used them against big teams is enough reason to be scared of D'Antoni down the road.

It isn't in fans' imagination that defense isn't the priority of the coach because it has been discussed and with strong arguments from guys that have been on a D'Antoni team or have seen him coach/practice. It isn't a secret that the center position is a touchy issue with him. It's also no secret that while D'Antoni is around, talent will be secondary to talent that fits his system. That is scary for anybody that isn't convinced in this system, especially in its defensive shortcomings and especially when the goals start to get bigger.

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RonRon
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3/21/2011  1:36 PM
I think Dantoni needs to go. Randolph and Darko are 2 players that Walsh had acquired and could have helped our defensive that Dantoni never utilized.
Walsh needs to find 2 Dleague talents and make Dantoni learn from his mistakes and use them.
Sean Williams is an athletic Center/PF that would help our shot blocking/RB and can finish. He is long and athletic and is an huge upgrade over JJ, Turiaf, and Sheldon WIlliams.
At 6f 11, he has the ability finish, run, and upgrade our defense.
franco12
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3/21/2011  1:43 PM
I'm not sure Walsh wants to be back.

He's getting up there, has had health issues, and if half of what we've heard about Dolan, Isiah and Dolan pushing for the Melo trade, then I would think he'd want to leave.

So, maybe Walsh leaves- less fired than escaping.

That leaves D'Antoni, and I could see him getting one last chance without an extension.

orangeblobman
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3/21/2011  1:45 PM
Melo should go first.
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nykshaknbake
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3/21/2011  3:13 PM
Donnie will be gone. After getting overridden by Dolan when he was promised free reign will prove to be too much. Dolan will also be looking for a scapegoat. Mda might stay if no big name replacements are there. Everything will be about big names and trying to sell tickets next season. If he thinks he can Jimmy maybring IT back. Nowthat he has 2 superstars he will get the chance to show everyone how good he is and how right and smart Dolan is. Barf.
franco12
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3/21/2011  4:49 PM
nykshaknbake wrote:Donnie will be gone. After getting overridden by Dolan when he was promised free reign will prove to be too much. Dolan will also be looking for a scapegoat. Mda might stay if no big name replacements are there. Everything will be about big names and trying to sell tickets next season. If he thinks he can Jimmy maybring IT back. Nowthat he has 2 superstars he will get the chance to show everyone how good he is and how right and smart Dolan is. Barf.

I think even the casual fan would be turned off if Isiah came back. Whether Dolan is smart enough to realize and connect that with potential ticket sales is a different story.

franco12
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3/21/2011  4:51 PM
I don't want to start a new thread- though probably should- heard Steven A Smith basically say he's heard that D'Antoni is on the spot now and under serious scrutiny.
DrAlphaeus
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3/21/2011  4:54 PM
franco12 wrote:I don't want to start a new thread- though probably should- heard Steven A Smith basically say he's heard that D'Antoni is on the spot now and under serious scrutiny.

Steven A. Smith should go first.

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CrushAlot
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3/21/2011  5:17 PM
I think D'Antoni should go. I also think if Walsh goes on his own or because he is not offered the extension then D'Antoni will be gone shortly after. Walsh has always kept the heat off of D'Antoni in the media and he has handled any drama that D'Antoni has created. I don't see the next GM doing that and another GM might want his own guy. I know there are a lot of fans that say this should be considered D'Antoni's first year but after watching him for three years I know there is no way that this team takes the next step and contends for a championship with him in place. That was only happening if the Knicks got LBJ, a guy that could overcome D'Antoni's shortcomings and a second star.
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VDesai
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3/21/2011  5:32 PM
I'd like both to stay another year.

I think changing coaches generally is a weak solution unless its a player motivation issue.. I think more continuity with this coach is needed. It wouldn't be fair to let him go after only giving him a roster that is capable of winning in the NBA this year, and then only giving him 30 games to adapt to virtually changing the roster overnight midseason.

Who goes first?

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