CashMoney wrote:We have to stars to build the team around, STAT and Melo. We have a great PG, granted coming towards the end of his career but is capable of playing at a high level for the next 3-4 years. I just don't understand all the negativity. The team is playing below expectations but was to be expected. It's not like you can throw talent on the floor and all of a sudden you have an elite team. Look at the Heat. They've had an entire off season and this season and they're still trying to figure certain things out.
I remember when the Rockets traded for Clyde Drexler they finished the season 16-17.

I get why people are upset over the trade. I was a fan of Gallo (my favorite player) and Chandler and liked the bulldog mentality and tougness that Felton brought to the team. Mozgov may very well turn into a player but not anytime soon. The Knicks were not going to win anything this year. The plan was to build for the future and we're still on track. The team has weaknesses but they will be addressed during the off season. The team is not that far off. We need a defense minded big man, a back up PG and a true SG.

People wanted to keep the team intact but even doing that had questions with no clear answers.

Were the Knicks going to resign Chandler?
If Felton was the answer at PG why was he signed to a two year deal? Is it because Felton was nothing more than a stop gap?
When Felton's deal was up was he going to resign at the same price after averaging 16 PPG and 7+ assists even if the Knicks wanted him back?
Gallo is a nice young player but is he ever going to turn into a Melo type player?
Is Chandler going to get much better than he is now or is het playing at the top of his game?
Was Mosgov ever going to be a double double guy every night?
How long would it have taken to find out if Mosgov was going to be that player or not?
Is AR really the next Jermaine O'Neil or is he simply a talent with a low BB IQ?

Why stay upset over the trade? It's absurd to say the Knicks are shot after 15 games. Why all the talk about the cap when none of us have an idea as to what the new CBA holds? Iss Chauncey getting $14 million this summer or will the Knicks decline the option and try to resign him to a deal that makes more sense? Why do we have to go out and sign a FA big man this summer when there is none that is a major difference maker? Who are the Knicks drafting this summer? Couldn't this guy be a difference maker? None of us were excited when Landry was drafted and none of us knew he would be the player he's been. I can safely state that none of us want to part ways with the kid.

There are a lots of unknowns moving forward so why worry about it now? I'm a Knicks fan and thought this was a Knick Fan Forum, not a Knicks hater forum. C'mon people, let's get behind our team and hope they right the ship over the next couple of weeks and make a nice run come playoff time. The unkowns will be addressed and answered in the future.

LET'S GO KNICKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

this team is F 4 years.

fishmike wrote:who's upset? The trade looks great for Denver right now and lousy for the Knicks. This trade had a downside although the Melo jock riders refused to believe it existed. Funny how the guys that didnt like the trade preached patience in letting our good young players grow, that these things take time. Meanwhile guys like you ensured the rest of us that Gallo, Chandler, AR, etc would never be the caliber player Melo was, bla bla bla.

There are two problems. One Melo isnt as good as some of you thought. A lot of people around here locked him in as top 10 player or even a top 5 player and expected the type of impact when KG went to Boston. Melo is a not an MVP caliber player and is not an elite rebounder, defender or playmaker. I made a comparison and I will stick too it. Melo is a pre injury Arenas. He's a monster scorer who can drop 40 on you at anytime and take over games. He's got big holes though.

And dont poo poo the guys that left. Before the trade rumors were bothering them they were playing very well and getting better. There was no reason not to resign Chandler to a modest contract. He wanted to be here. We had a young, big skilled and deep roster and a star who get big buckets and carry the youths when needed:
PG Felton, Douglas
SG Fields, Walker
SF Gallo, Chandler
PF Amare, Williams
C Mosgov, Turiaf

Thats a deep team everyone but Amare/Felton 25 years old or younger. Thats a good start. We scrapped it to be a win now team built around 2 high scoring forwards who dont too much else and we have taken quite a step backward.

What cracks me up is guys like me who believed in our young players preached patience. The pro Melo at all costs guys are now saying the exact same things.. its going to take a year, maybe more to build up the roster around these guys. Its pretty funny.

I dont like the trade but I understand why the Knicks felt like they had to do it. I dont have to lovingly embrace Melo any more than I had to lovingly embrace Marbury (same caliber player). Everything about Melo says top NBA player. I think we are all waiting.

This could be the linchpin right back to the way things were before Walsh. Overpaid over hyped players that point fingers and lose a lot of games.

Exactly.

Brilliantly and succinctly crafted.

Mozgov - 7'1"
Curry - 6'11"
Anthony Randolph - 6'11"
Gallo - 6'10"

Any time you trade away that kind of size and don't get size back, you're asking for trouble. We were a little undersized before. Now, we're possibly the most undersized team in the league. That's never a good formula.

Now, we're trying to plug those holes with Jared Jeffries and it simply does not make up for the fact that we have no other bigs.

fishmike wrote:
What cracks me up is guys like me who believed in our young players preached patience. The pro Melo at all costs guys are now saying the exact same things.. its going to take a year, maybe more to build up the roster around these guys. Its pretty funny.

Man, I don't get it..What's so funny? I'm pro Melo -- did you ever once hear me say we're done building the team after that trade was completed? No you didn't..Not sure you heard that from any other pro Melo advocate either. If you did, cite the thread..I'm always looking for ways to build the team. We're not having immediate success right now and a lot of you are ignoring an important detail: for those of you interested in and focused on the HERE & NOW and winning immediately (and don't get me wrong, I wanna win now too---I wanna make the playoffs as the 6th seed or better and beat out Houston for the better draft pick---to me those are obtainable goals), we absolutely 100% **** the bed with the Jared Jeffries signing and will wind up getting zero out of Derrick Brown as well (the kid's already asking out of town). I've said it ad nauseum -- we could've filled those two roster spots with much better players..We didn't. We added a backup bigman that's not even better than Turiaf and a kid that the coach is never gonna play..Both will be gone at the end of the year (I can only pray Jeffries will be at least)..We should've added players that filled needs..We didn't, and that's gonna directly affect how good this team can be for the rest of this year..That plus we have to account for the jelling issues..

Now we'll have to see what they're prepared to do this offseason..I'd like to see us add an impact player in the 1st round, purchase at least 1 2nd round pick (hopefully 2 or more), bring in Jerome Jordan, target and add the best undrafted player that slips and sign another 2-3 players on low-cost smart deals all while keeping as much cap room open for the summer of 2012..Not only do I think this can be done fairly easily, it can be done quickly and I've even detailed in great length the players that I'd like to add...Some of you guys wanna sit around and stew and say things like, "I told ya Melo sucks" and "we'll be bad for 4 years" go right ahead. I personally think that thought process is utter nonsense and unproductive..Not to mention it's flat out NOT TRUE..Those who believe that should jump off the bandwagon now and become Net fans..The rest of you, I invite you to discuss with me how to improve this team from here on in. WAYYYYYYYYYYYY too much negativity on this board, esp AFTER big moves are made. Like it or not, like Melo or not, this is the team..It should be all about how to build it up from here until we get it to a championship level. I'm shocked more of you don't feel this way.

martin wrote:

Marv wrote:

Solace wrote:One more disappointing element of the trade. We traded a lot of tall guys and got nobody over 6'9" in return:

Mozgov - 7'1"
Curry - 6'11"
Anthony Randolph - 6'11"
Gallo - 6'10"

Any time you trade away that kind of size and don't get size back, you're asking for trouble. We were a little undersized before. Now, we're possibly the most undersized team in the league. That's never a good formula.

Now, we're trying to plug those holes with Jared Jeffries and it simply does not make up for the fact that we have no other bigs.

go sit in the corner for 5 minutes for putting the name eddy curry in there.

5 minutes? That's it?

I was just making a point. You're just mad because I didn't mention Jerome James.

Solace wrote:One more disappointing element of the trade. We traded a lot of tall guys and got nobody over 6'9" in return:

Mozgov - 7'1"
Curry - 6'11"
Anthony Randolph - 6'11"
Gallo - 6'10"

Any time you trade away that kind of size and don't get size back, you're asking for trouble. We were a little undersized before. Now, we're possibly the most undersized team in the league. That's never a good formula.

Now, we're trying to plug those holes with Jared Jeffries and it simply does not make up for the fact that we have no other bigs.

I fully agree that Mosgov/Chandler/Gallo/AR will never be the caliber player that Melo is. However if we have learned anything over the last few years its that quality size is hard to find. Individually they may not have been monsters but most every night we were bigger than our opponents. A lot bigger. We had tall guys who could play and defend multiple positions. We beat the Clippers when Gallo guarded Baron Davis the whole 4th qtr.

Shawn Williams is nice but doesnt have half the skills that Gallo/Chandler had.

I think what we are seing right out of the box is that we DID indeed have some impact players and gave them up and size and depth does matter. The pro-trade people have argued that guys like Gallo, Chandler, etc much easier to get, but it took a couple years to build up that group, and a couple more to develop them. After 2 years Gallo was just getting good. Getting to the line all the time, being a better defender, Chandler was really filling out the stat sheet, Mosgov finally starting to get that.... what now? Do we stock up in the draft and try to develop key rotation players? Amare aint getting younger and Billups looks more and more shot all the time. Did anyone consider that?

The pro trade group refused to look at anydownside and sold this as a slam dunk. It wasnt. Maybe Walsh can make some magic happen. Maybe he quits and Isiah comes back to coach, GM and be president. That would be exciting.

fishmike wrote:who's upset? The trade looks great for Denver right now and lousy for the Knicks. This trade had a downside although the Melo jock riders refused to believe it existed. Funny how the guys that didnt like the trade preached patience in letting our good young players grow, that these things take time. Meanwhile guys like you ensured the rest of us that Gallo, Chandler, AR, etc would never be the caliber player Melo was, bla bla bla.

There are two problems. One Melo isnt as good as some of you thought. A lot of people around here locked him in as top 10 player or even a top 5 player and expected the type of impact when KG went to Boston. Melo is a not an MVP caliber player and is not an elite rebounder, defender or playmaker. I made a comparison and I will stick too it. Melo is a pre injury Arenas. He's a monster scorer who can drop 40 on you at anytime and take over games. He's got big holes though.

And dont poo poo the guys that left. Before the trade rumors were bothering them they were playing very well and getting better. There was no reason not to resign Chandler to a modest contract. He wanted to be here. We had a young, big skilled and deep roster and a star who get big buckets and carry the youths when needed:
PG Felton, Douglas
SG Fields, Walker
SF Gallo, Chandler
PF Amare, Williams
C Mosgov, Turiaf

Thats a deep team everyone but Amare/Felton 25 years old or younger. Thats a good start. We scrapped it to be a win now team built around 2 high scoring forwards who dont too much else and we have taken quite a step backward.

What cracks me up is guys like me who believed in our young players preached patience. The pro Melo at all costs guys are now saying the exact same things.. its going to take a year, maybe more to build up the roster around these guys. Its pretty funny.

I dont like the trade but I understand why the Knicks felt like they had to do it. I dont have to lovingly embrace Melo any more than I had to lovingly embrace Marbury (same caliber player). Everything about Melo says top NBA player. I think we are all waiting.

This could be the linchpin right back to the way things were before Walsh. Overpaid over hyped players that point fingers and lose a lot of games.

Yeah Denver got the best of the trade after 15 games? Gallo was on the shelf for most of them and Felton is on the shelf right now. It's easier to insert one player into your starting lineup than it is to add 4. Denver isn't winning a championship with that roster anyway.

Melo is the best rebounding SF in the NBA and the 3rd best SF in the NBA. It's not like I didn't like the players that we had it's that a player like Melo, in the prime of his career, does not become available very often. Bottom line is Melo is the better player and you add the better players as opposed to seeing if potential is fulfilled. Billups is an upgrade and Melo is an upgrade. The former roster nor this roster are winning it all this year but we have a better chance with Melo than without him.

What player doesn't have holes? The only players in the NBA that are damn close to perfect are Kobe, Lebron and Durant. Who’s to say that Chandler would have resigned for a modest contract? Players want to become paid and Chandler is no different. Let's see what he signs for this summer and see where he would have fit in with the Knicks at that number. Let's see what type of money Gallo gets.

Comparing a pre-injury Arenas to Melo is dumb. Let's see a 6'8 SF who is the best rebounder at his position and top 3 at his positon who can knock down a shot with a game on the line who commands a double team to a guy who's an in between PG/SG? Please, other than scoring compare away.

Billups is an upgrade over the stop gap that was Felton. Mosgov was a project who wasn't going to have a major impact anytime soon. We give up Gallo and Chandler for Melo. The Knicks would have had to pay them both and it wasn't going to be for modest dollars anymore than what it would have cost modest dollars to resign Felton if the Knicks wanted him back.

PG Billups, Douglas
SG Fields, Mason, Jr.
SF Anthony, Walker
PF Amare, Williams
C Turiaf, Williams

How is former roster any deeper than the current roster?

CashMoney wrote:

fishmike wrote:who's upset? The trade looks great for Denver right now and lousy for the Knicks. This trade had a downside although the Melo jock riders refused to believe it existed. Funny how the guys that didnt like the trade preached patience in letting our good young players grow, that these things take time. Meanwhile guys like you ensured the rest of us that Gallo, Chandler, AR, etc would never be the caliber player Melo was, bla bla bla.

There are two problems. One Melo isnt as good as some of you thought. A lot of people around here locked him in as top 10 player or even a top 5 player and expected the type of impact when KG went to Boston. Melo is a not an MVP caliber player and is not an elite rebounder, defender or playmaker. I made a comparison and I will stick too it. Melo is a pre injury Arenas. He's a monster scorer who can drop 40 on you at anytime and take over games. He's got big holes though.

And dont poo poo the guys that left. Before the trade rumors were bothering them they were playing very well and getting better. There was no reason not to resign Chandler to a modest contract. He wanted to be here. We had a young, big skilled and deep roster and a star who get big buckets and carry the youths when needed:
PG Felton, Douglas
SG Fields, Walker
SF Gallo, Chandler
PF Amare, Williams
C Mosgov, Turiaf

Thats a deep team everyone but Amare/Felton 25 years old or younger. Thats a good start. We scrapped it to be a win now team built around 2 high scoring forwards who dont too much else and we have taken quite a step backward.

What cracks me up is guys like me who believed in our young players preached patience. The pro Melo at all costs guys are now saying the exact same things.. its going to take a year, maybe more to build up the roster around these guys. Its pretty funny.

I dont like the trade but I understand why the Knicks felt like they had to do it. I dont have to lovingly embrace Melo any more than I had to lovingly embrace Marbury (same caliber player). Everything about Melo says top NBA player. I think we are all waiting.

This could be the linchpin right back to the way things were before Walsh. Overpaid over hyped players that point fingers and lose a lot of games.

Yeah Denver got the best of the trade after 15 games? Gallo was on the shelf for most of them and Felton is on the shelf right now. It's easier to insert one player into your starting lineup than it is to add 4. Denver isn't winning a championship with that roster anyway.

Melo is the best rebounding SF in the NBA and the 3rd best SF in the NBA. It's not like I didn't like the players that we had it's that a player like Melo, in the prime of his career, does not become available very often. Bottom line is Melo is the better player and you add the better players as opposed to seeing if potential is fulfilled. Billups is an upgrade and Melo is an upgrade. The former roster nor this roster are winning it all this year but we have a better chance with Melo than without him.

What player doesn't have holes? The only players in the NBA that are damn close to perfect are Kobe, Lebron and Durant. Who’s to say that Chandler would have resigned for a modest contract? Players want to become paid and Chandler is no different. Let's see what he signs for this summer and see where he would have fit in with the Knicks at that number. Let's see what type of money Gallo gets.

Comparing a pre-injury Arenas to Melo is dumb. Let's see a 6'8 SF who is the best rebounder at his position and top 3 at his positon who can knock down a shot with a game on the line who commands a double team to a guy who's an in between PG/SG? Please, other than scoring compare away.

Billups is an upgrade over the stop gap that was Felton. Mosgov was a project who wasn't going to have a major impact anytime soon. We give up Gallo and Chandler for Melo. The Knicks would have had to pay them both and it wasn't going to be for modest dollars anymore than what it would have cost modest dollars to resign Felton if the Knicks wanted him back.

PG Billups, Douglas
SG Fields, Mason, Jr.
SF Anthony, Walker
PF Amare, Williams
C Turiaf, Williams

How is former roster any deeper than the current roster?

Well said Cash.

Finestrg wrote:

fishmike wrote:
What cracks me up is guys like me who believed in our young players preached patience. The pro Melo at all costs guys are now saying the exact same things.. its going to take a year, maybe more to build up the roster around these guys. Its pretty funny.

Man, I don't get it..What's so funny? I'm pro Melo -- did you ever once hear me say we're done building the team after that trade was completed? No you didn't..Not sure you heard that from any other pro Melo advocate either. If you did, cite the thread..I'm always looking for ways to build the team. We're not having immediate success right now and a lot of you are ignoring an important detail: for those of you interested in and focused on the HERE & NOW and winning immediately (and don't get me wrong, I wanna win now too---I wanna make the playoffs as the 6th seed or better and beat out Houston for the better draft pick---to me those are obtainable goals), we absolutely 100% **** the bed with the Jared Jeffries signing and will wind up getting zero out of Derrick Brown as well (the kid's already asking out of town). I've said it ad nauseum -- we could've filled those two roster spots with much better players..We didn't. We added a backup bigman that's not even better than Turiaf and a kid that the coach is never gonna play..Both will be gone at the end of the year (I can only pray Jeffries will be at least)..We should've added players that filled needs..We didn't, and that's gonna directly affect how good this team can be for the rest of this year..

Now we'll have to see what they're prepared to do this offseason..I'd like to see us add an impact player in the 1st round, purchase at least 1 2nd round pick (hopefully 2 or more), bring in Jerome Jordan, target and add the best undrafted player that slips and sign another 2-3 players on low-cost smart deals all while keeping as much cap room open for the summer of 2012..Not only do I think this can be done fairly easily, it can be done quickly and I've even detailed in great length the players that I'd like to add...Some of you guys wanna sit around and stew and say things like, "I told ya Melo sucks" and "we'll be bad for 4 years" go right ahead. I personally think that thought process is utter nonsense and unproductive..Not to mention it's flat out NOT TRUE..Those who believe that should jump off the bandwagon now and become Net fans..The rest of you, I invite you to discuss with me how to improve this team from here on in. WAYYYYYYYYYYYY too much negativity on this board, esp AFTER big moves are made. Like it or not, like Melo or not, this is the team..It should be all about how to build it up from here until we get it to a championship level. I'm shocked more of you don't feel this way.

The negativity? Thats a result of the pro Melo guys, TMS, Vmart, jrsyhystla, Anubis, you?... that whole group. For that group there was ZERO debate. It was stars win titles. Stars win games. Melo is a star, none of our guys were. Great trade, end of discussion, anyone that doesnt see that is an idiot. Then we had that same group waving their melo flags after he hit one game winner reminding us all who right they were. Guess what? Melo probably isnt a top 10 players and the guys we gave up are pretty good. So the negativity (perceived or actual) is a result from the pro-melo guys making sure anyone that had issue with the trade were idiots and they are right.

I'm not negative. I'm calling things like I see them. Anthony's game is as one dimensional as I always thought. Man can he score, but he needs a STRONG supporting cast around him, ad we dont have that and guys like Nene, Camby, a younger Billups, etc etc.. those guys arent easy to sign, draft or trade for.

Fields is a cute player, but the least talented of Mos/Gallo/Chandler/Felton for sure.

On Melo:
I wanted him here. Game changing scorer. NY guy. He wanted to come here... but there was a price. I said if he wants to come to NY and win a title either Denver takes a reasonable deal (Fields, Chandler, AR, picks cap relief) or we sign Melo with cap space.

The cost was just too high. Sometimes you have to walk away. Melo to the Nets isnt a landscape changer

That would have left us with:
Felton, Melo, Gallo, Amare, Mosgov starting and Williams, Douglas and Turiaf off the bench. That team would be competing for a title.

Now we have Melo, Amare, a broken down Billups and some spare parts. Here's to hoping Douglas becomes the bext Gary Payton.