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Snowman
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2/6/2004  10:25 AM
Todays addition.
What does DICK CHANEY & DON CHANEY have in common ?? They both accidentally fell into a job they don't deserve & really suck at doing it !!!! Both need to be fired !!!
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2/6/2004  3:22 PM
Draft: Will the Duke curse ruin Deng?

By Chad Ford
NBA Insider
Send an Email to Chad Ford Wednesday, February 4
Updated: February 5
9:50 AM ET

Luol Deng is a cursed man.

Despite overcoming every imaginable obstacle in his life, will an imaginary one bring him down?

A former political refugee from the Sudan, he fled with his family to Egypt and then England when he was a child. He moved to America to play high school basketball and by the time he graduated last spring, was widely ranked as the second-best basketball player in the country behind a kid named LeBron.

Deng shocked some NBA scouts by giving up a likely lottery selection in the 2003 NBA Draft to attend Duke University -- the home of many NCAA champions and very few NBA ones.

Somewhere along the way, the fact that playing for Duke comes with a terrible curse when it comes to the NBA was lost in translation.

Deng is a Dukie now. If you buy into the conventional wisdom, that means he'll likely go on to have a stellar college basketball career. He'll compete for numerous national championships. He'll be adored by the media. When he decides to come into the draft, he'll most likely be selected in the high lottery. And then, if the legends are true, he'll turn into a decent, but soft player, one who'll have to join onto a team as a sixth or seventh man if he ever wants to win an NBA championship.

If curses are real based solely on the fact that people believe they're real, then Luol Deng is screwed.

The evidence, at first blush is pretty staggering. Under Coach K, 16 Blue Devils have earned All-America honors. Since his arrival in 1980-81, six Duke players have been national Player of the Year -- Johnny Dawkins, Danny Ferry, Christian Laettner, Elton Brand, Shane Battier and Jay Williams. All six were lottery picks in the NBA Draft.

Duke has won three national titles and reached nine Final Fours in Coach K's tenure. This enormous amount of success in the college ranks has meant a lot of love for Dukies in the NBA. Coach K has produced 17 first-round draft picks since 1986 -- the most of any active NCAA coach. Since 1999, Duke has produced eight first-round draft choices and six lottery picks.

Unfortunately, that's where the good news ends.


No matter what it says on Luol Deng's chest, NBA scouts see the the freshman as a lottery pick when he decides to leave Duke.

Apparently success at Duke doesn't necessarily translate into success in the NBA. Thus, the origins of the curse of the Blue Devil. Of the 10 current Dukies in the NBA, Hill is the only Duke player ever to be named to the first team, All-NBA. Hill and Brand are the only two NBA Rookie of Year winners. Only three current NBA Dukies have ever played in an All-Star Game (Hill played in five All-Star games; Laettner in one, '97; Brand in one, '02). Only Farry has won a NBA title (San Antonio, 2003).

A few Dukies like Laettner, Ferry and Battier have been solid, but unspectacular for former national players of the year. Other's, like Brand, Corey Maggette and Carlos Boozer have very promising futures, but all three are stuck on some of the worst teams in the league. Hill was the one player from Duke who looked like could completely transcend the curse, but that was before disaster struck.

To make things just a bit spookier, Dukies have had their share of bad luck in the injury department. Hill, who at one time looked like a possible heir to Michael Jordan, broke his ankle in 2000 and never recovered. Williams, who went No. 2 in the 2002 NBA Draft, was injured in a motorcycle accident and most question whether he'll ever play again. Another top Duke prospect, Bobby Hurley was involved in a near-fatal car accident just 19 games into his rookie season. His injuries included collapsed lungs-one ripped from his trachea-broken ribs, a shattered shoulder blade, and a partially torn anterior cruciate ligament (ACL) in his right knee. Though he went on to play five seasons in the NBA, he never regained the form that he had at Duke.

All of these events have lead to the urban legend that Duke players can't play in the NBA. The facts are bolstered by theories that Duke, because of high academic standards, can't recruit the top athletes in the game, and must instead rely on heady team players that can mesh seamlessly into a system.

Others point to Coach K's system and claim that it's too different from the pro sets run by NBA teams. Offenses based on teamwork are often foreign to the NBA, where the individual athleticism and speed of a player matters more. The fact that Coach K discourages his players from lifting weights also fuels the myths that Duke is a finishing school -- as in finishing a guy's NBA career.

No here's the bad news for those of you eating this stuff up ...

It's all bull.

Make believe.

You've got a better chance of finding aliens in Roswell and Bigfoot in your local wildlife preserve than you do of proving that Dukies suffer from a curse.

For starters, and this may be the most significant, GMs and scouts are adamant that they don't even pay attention to a player's school when making an evaluation.

"It really doesn't matter," one GM told Insider. "Either a kid can play or he can't. Do you think Tim Duncan, who's a pretty smart, stoic player, would have been less of a pro had he played four years at Duke? Would Trajan Langdon have been an NBA superstar had he played at UConn? It's really pretty ridiculous if you think about it. Duke is a great school, which plays in a competitive conference and has a fantastic coach. That's the extent that we evaluate the school. I don't believe in curses."

Neither do the other five league executives and scouts Insider talked to. All six sources claimed that they would not hesitate to take a Duke player with the top overall pick in the draft if their scouting process deemed a Duke player to be the best. So why does the urban legend persist?

"A couple of things," one scout said. "First of all, it's about jealousy. In professional sports, when one team has an inordinate amount of success, folks try to poke holes in them. Second, there were a string of Duke guys -- Laettner, Hurley, Ferry -- who did have a lot of hype coming out of college and basically bombed. But with the success of guys like Elton Brand and Corey Maggette, I just don't think the bad rap fits anymore."

Only one knock seemed to stick. Several GMs agreed that Duke's emphasis on teamwork saps the individualism out of players who stay there all four years. "You've got to have a little edge, a killer instinct to be the best in the NBA," one GM told Insider. "Coach K does his best to extinguish that fire. Look at the Duke guys -- Hill, Brand, Maggette, Dunleavy -- they're all good players that just seem to lack that edge. Boozer, may be the exception to the rule, but he was a black sheep at Duke."

Even from a factual standpoint, the Duke curse rests on a pretty shaky foundation. The fact that Duke players haven't won a lot of rings, All-Star berths or spots on the first team All-NBA team, isn't that unusual. Insider looked at the players from four other college basketball schools -- North Carolina, Arizona, Kentucky and Kansas -- and found similar numbers.

North Carolina has more current NBA players than any other college, but now that Michael Jordan is out of the equation, former Tar Heels look pretty human, too. Only three current UNC grads -- Vince Carter, Rasheed Wallace and Jerry Stackhouse -- have played on an All-Star team. Only one player, Carter, has been on an All-NBA team (second team). Only one, Carter, has won Rookie of the Year. Rick Fox and Scott Williams are the only Tar Heels with NBA rings -- and I don't think anyone is quite ready to credit either guy with having a significant role in getting the ring. As for duds, how does Joe Forte, Shammond Williams or the marginally effective Jeff McInnis or Brendan Haywood sound?

Kentucky also has a number of NBA players, but doesn't fare any better. Three Kentucky grads -- Jamal Mashburn, Antoine Walker and now, Jamaal Magloire -- have been named to All-Star teams. Only one, Mashburn, has been on an All-NBA team (third team). They have no Rookie of the Years and no one wearing a championship ring.

Arizona also is hurting. Despite 10 current NBA players, and four lottery picks, no current player from Arizona has ever played in an All-Star game or won an NBA title. The best they can offer is Damon Stoudamire, who won Rookie of the Year honors well before his career hit rock bottom in Portland. There are nice young players like Mike Bibby, Richard Jefferson, Gilbert Arenas and Jason Terry in the league, but according to the lofty standards by which Duke players are measured, they haven't done jack squat.

Things aren't any better in Kansas. Paul Pierce, Raef LaFrentz and Drew Gooden all struck gold in the lottery. But with the exception of Pierce, who's now been named to three all-star teams and two All-NBA teams (second team) they're not exactly turning out NBA superstars either.

None of the top five schools have a current player with an MVP trophy to their name. You'll have to go to Wake Forest, LSU, Georgetown or Louisiana Tech to get that award.

If you've made an All-NBA first team recently, you went to Wake Forest, Michigan, LSU, Georgetown, Cal, Lousiana Tech, Oregon State or jumped directly from high school. NBA Championship? Unless you're lucky enough to play with the Spurs or Lakers the past four seasons, no luck there either.

So what does all of this have to do with Luol Deng? Absolutley nothing. NBA scouts love Deng and believe that he'll be a top 10 selection if he declares for the draft after this season -- Duke notwithstanding. Are scouts just burying their heads in the sand?

Uh ... no.

Deng already has drawn comparisons to Hill for his versatility, athleticism and basketball IQ. Deng has a 7-foot wing span and is an off-the-charts athlete. He's an above average passer, shot blocker and rebounder for his size. The last Blue Devil to leave as a freshman was Maggette. Deng is a much more complete player. If he can lead the Dukies to an NCAA Championship, scouts believe there's a good chance he'll follow in Carmelo's shoes and become one of the top-three picks in the draft.

Duke haters, I rest my case.
s3231
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2/6/2004  3:23 PM
Case can you post the one about the Knicks?
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
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2/6/2004  3:29 PM
Francis no longer Rockets' No. 1 option

By Terry Brown
NBA Insider
Friday, February 6
Updated: February 6
10:08 AM ET

If Jeff Van Gundy says it's hot, then Steve Francis is, most likely, going to argue it's cold.

"It's never going to be over as far as an endpoint," Francis said in the Houston Chronicle of their latest argument concerning his Super Bowl Sunday disappearance. "He's going to coach the way he wants to coach, and I'm going to play the way I want to play. There's always going to be conflict. It's not like we're going to be best friends. There are going to be days when he thinks I should have done this better, and there are going to be days when I think he should have done things better. We both understand that."

Or maybe it's Van Gundy saying it's cold and Francis opting for hot.


Steve Francis
Point Guard
Houston Rockets
Profile


2003-2004 SEASON STATISTICS
GM PPG RPG APG FG% FT%
47 16.7 5.6 5.9 .396 .756

"I would agree with that -- not that he'll play the way he wants to play -- but I agree with everything else," Van Gundy said.

But there is at least one thing they will agree on.

Steve "The Franchise" Francis is no longer the centerpiece of the Houston Rocket Franchise even if his teammates don't understand that yet.

"The best player on the team and the coach are going to always have their spats, regardless of what team you're on," Rockets forward Maurice Taylor said. "That's why they are the best player, they can have spats with the head coach."

Because if Francis really were the best player on the team, then why would he be allowed to shoot 14.8 times per game this season when he shot 16.2 times per game last year and 17.6 times the year before that.

As a result, his numbers have dropped off considerably across the board.

2002-03 Season: 21 ppg, 6.2 rpg, 6.2 apg, 1.7 spg, 0.5 bpg, 43% from field, 35% from 3, 80% free throw

2003-04 Season: 16.7 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 5.9 apg, 1.4 spg, 0.4 bpg, 39% from field, 29% from 3, 75% free throw

Of course, Van Gundy will tell you this is by design. He wants 7-foot-6 center Yao Ming to be the focal point of the offense. After all, Yao has shot 51 percent from the field over his brief career while Francis is at 43 percent. Van Gundy wants Francis to play a controlled game that sees Yao as the first option.

Francis, of course, wants an up-and-down game with plenty of fast breaks and 3-point shots.

So far, the change is philosophy is mixed.


Yao Ming
Center
Houston Rockets
Profile


2003-2004 SEASON STATISTICS
GM PPG RPG APG FG% FT%
48 16.1 9.1 1.4 .532 .769

So far this season, Yao has gone from scoring 13.5 points per game last year to 16.1 this year as the Rockets moved to a 27-21 record while scoring 87.2 points per game and shooting 43.4 percent from the field.

Last year, they were at 26-22 at this point of the season and finished averaging 93.8 points per game while shooting 44 percent from the field.

Last year, Yao shot the ball 9.8 times per game. This year, he's shooting the ball 11.2 times per game.

But regardless of these statistical results, Francis knows as well as Van Gundy that this trend will continue. This year, next year, the year after that, Francis' role is changing.

In 15 games in November, Francis took 241 shots. In 15 games in December, he shot 225 times. In 15 games in January, he shot 207 times.

"It's out of my mind," Francis said. "As far as prolonging it, I could care less. I don't have any bad feelings against him. I've still got to play for him, God knows how long. I have no problem with coach at all."

And, depending on how you look at it, Van Gundy said hot . . . Or cold.

"I don't look at it as a conflict between me and Steve," Van Gundy said. "Because you could have erased his name and put anybody else's name in there and it would have been the same course of action. Steve and I are fine. Like I said, I enjoy him. I'm sure there are things at times that we'll disagree on, just like I'll disagree with any player on."

Jackson running out of patience?

Lakers coach Phil Jackson seems to bending and bending and bending backwards for Kobe Bryant and you have to wonder if he's getting any closer to a breaking point.

Bryant was supposed to join the team Thursday night in Philadelphia for its game against the Sixers. He wasn't going to play, but Jackson expected him to be with his teammates. But one hour before tip off, the Lakers had no idea of his whereabouts, leaving Jackson to wonder if:

A) He was still suffering from the stomach flu.
B) His stitched finger was hurting too much to fly.
C) He didn't want to hear his hometown crowd boo him again.
D) He slipped again on a box in his garage while attending to urgent family matters during the Super Bowl.
E) His shooting guard had decided to test the free-agent market even sooner than expected.

or, the traditional favorite . . .

F) Weather.

"We understand. This has not been an easy week," Jackson said.

Bending . . .

"Those things we have to understand," Jackson said.

Bending . . .

"I haven't heard anything," Jackson said 60 minutes before tip off. "I don't know if it's weather or something's come up that delayed him. But he was supposed to be here between four and five."

Bending . . .

"It's good for him, to be with us here," Jackson said. "Be with us in this situation, join his teammates, see how we're playing, be first-hand in what we're going through right now, as far as the way we're playing the game."

The Lakers ended up getting blown out by the Sixers, 96-73, making only 28 of 82 shots while their defense allowed Philadelphia to shoot 49 percent from the field after shooting only 43 percent on the season as Bryant's agent finally contacted the team to tell it Kobe would, instead, meet the Lakers in Orlando on Sunday.

Of course, this was after he was originally supposed to meet the team in Cleveland on Wednesday.

Darko running in place

This isn't the idea of progress No. 2 pick Darko Milicic had in mind when he decided to join the NBA.

"(I will ask) what is the idea, what is the schedule they have for me?" Milicic said in the Detroit News. "They don't think I will start to play this year? I want to know that. I didn't think I was going to have big minutes, but I don't care. I just want a few minutes. I just want to do something good. I want to show what I can do. Right now, I don't have any minutes and I can't do anything."


Darko Milicic
Forward-Center
Detroit Pistons
Profile


2003-2004 SEASON STATISTICS
GM PPG RPG APG FG% FT%
15 0.9 0.7 0.2 .333 .286

When the season started, on Oct. 31, Milicic knew he wasn't going to start the game. He knew he wasn't going to play significant minutes off the bench. But he had no idea he was going to play only one minute, taking no shots and scoring no points.

He also had no idea that he would play a total of 16 minutes in November, 11 minutes in December and 20 minutes in January. So far in February, he hasn't played a single minute. In fact, he hasn't played since Jan. 16 when he logged nine minutes and no points.

Ten games later, he was looking for an explanation and couldn't have liked it when it came.

"There is no confusion between me and Darko. In fact, we talk all the time," head coach Larry Brown said. "He came in after lifting weights after practice and said to Dave (assistant coach Dave Hanners), 'What do I need to do to get better?', which I was really happy to hear him say because that to me is like a first-year college freshman asking how he can play more. He knows he needs to get better. I'd be worried if he didn't want to play. He's getting better, but he's not ready yet. Joe (Dumars) and I talked about this -- we don't think he's going to play."

But even so, he's handling it as best as can be expected.

"He's not frustrated, he's just competitive and wants to play," his agent, Marc Cornstein, said. "He's not satisfied with being the 12th man."

Even as he watches No. 1 pick LeBron James and No. 3 pick Carmelo Anthony log heavy minutes. So far this season, Milicic has played a total of 48 while James is at 1,848 and Anthony at 1,788.

"They're playing good," Milicic said. "Carmelo's playing good. But right now, I just care about me, because I am not playing. I am trying to do something good . . . Coaches say, 'You're young, wait. Be patient.' I am never going to tell them (coaches) that I am ready (to play). If they cannot see, I am not going to tell them. They know better than me."

* Francis, Van Gundy broker uneasy truce
Megan Manfull / Houston Chronicle
* Traveling violation by Kobe
Howard Beck / Los Angeles Daily News
* Milicic wants playing time
Joanne C. Gerstner / Detroit News

Peep Show

By Chad Ford
NBA Insider
Send an Email to Chad Ford Friday, February 6
Updated: February 6
9:02 AM ET


Kirilenko
Utah Jazz: What's the difference between Andrei Kirilenko and all-star Andrei Kirilenko? "It's big pressure," the Russian told the Salt Lake Tribune. "It's pretty hard to keep [your] head in the game sometimes because everybody is waiting for something phenomenal. 'You're All-Star, come on show us.' No, I'm team player. So I must learn to not worry about being All-Star and just play my game . . . I don't think about personal stats. I'm trying to be all-around and help teammates. Create situations to make somebody open. People are going to expect too much now, maybe. I want to get back on winning road, not show I'm All-Star. That's not my game."

New Jersey Nets: Lawrence Frank is 5-foot-8, 33-years-old and head coach of the Nets, who are 5-0 since he took over. "Coaching is more than drawing up X's and O's on a clipboard," Frank said in the New York Times. "You're dealing with people. All I can do is give my best effort, be honest, direct and sincere. The players determine if they respect me or not . . . It's never this easy. We've been very, very fortunate. But we're still in the infancy stages. There's still a lot of feeling out to do."

Cleveland Cavaliers: Flip Saunders says forget about comparing LeBron James and Carmelo Anthony to Michael Jordan when they aren't even close to Kevin Garnett yet after both rookies said they wouldn't replace injured all-stars in the Classic. "They might be young, but that's the difference between those guys and a guy like (Kevin Garnett)," Saunders said the Lorraine Mornign Journal. "K.G. has an unbelievable amount of respect for the game. I'm sure that they were hurt, just like (Minnesota's Latrell Sprewell) was hurt. There are 17, 18 guys who deserve to be all-stars. They are all-stars, but only 12 get to go. I think that's a knee-jerk reaction by young players who felt slighted." In fact, KG made his first all-star appearance as an injury replacement and Saunders remembers his reaction. "I remember how excited he was," the coach said. "He never looked at that as a slap in the face. He looked at it as an unbelievable opportunity and something he was extremely grateful for."

New Orleans Hornets: It's been the best of seasons and the worst of seasons for the Hornets who started out 17-7 but have gone 9-16 since. "It's just been a tale of two halves," forward P.J. Brown said in the Times-Picayune. "In the first half we have been battling and playing well. But in the second half we've struggled. I think the guys are frustrated, disappointed and depressed. But we've got to stay positive."


Maggette
Los Angeles Clippers: Corey Maggette is just waiting for someone to double-dog-dare him after spraining his right ankle. "I'm day-to-day," Maggette said in the Orange County Register after being listed as doubtful for the team's next game. "But if my team really needed me, I feel like I could go out there with a broken leg . . . During the season, there's nothing you can do about certain nagging injuries. You're never going to be 100 percent healthy. You just work through it. Right now, I'm moving, so I feel I could still go out and get 20 (points)."

Memphis Grizzlies: Hubie Brown can count and he feels 10 is better than 5 or 6 or 7. "No," Brown said in the Commercial Appeal after saying he was sticking with his 10-man rotation. "We're going to keep doing what we've been doing. The idea still is to wear you down. That's how we have to play. We're going with whoever is operating at their best that night. That's what it's all about with young teams. As the season is going on you're seeing growth in certain individuals. Then you're seeing chemistry when you have other groups of five."

* Jazz's newest All-Star beginning to realize the expectations
Phil Miller / Salt Lake Tribune
* Frank Is Winning Players' Respect
Lee Jenkins / New York Times
* Rookies getting backlash for comments
Bob Finnan / Lorain Morning Journal
* Hornets' promising season in jeopardy
John Reid / New Orleans Times-Picayune
* Maggette still listed doubtful
Art Thompson / Orange County Register
* Griz stick to rotation of 10 players
Ronald Tillery / Memphis Commercial Appeal
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2/6/2004  3:36 PM
By Greg Anthony
ESPN Insider


There were a few surprises when the all-star rosters were announced, but as is the case every year, there are more deserving players than there are roster spots available. Nevertheless, it still will be an entertaining weekend.

I did receive quite a few passionate responses regarding the "Big 3" column earlier this week. I didn't give the old Celtics trio of Larry Bird, Kevin McHale, and Robert Parrish any mention, but in all fairness I was focusing on the new millennium and therefore omitted quite a few deserving groups.

That said, let's get to the e-mail &

Brian Miller, from Minneapolis asks:
Do you think the TimberWolves will make any deals before the trading deadline? And do you think they have a shot at being the No. 1 or 2 seed in the West?


Oliver Miller has provided Minnesota a veteran presence off the bench.
A: Brian, if I'm Kevin McHale, I'm standing pat with the team I have. The one move they made -- acquiring Oliver Miller -- was a great one, because he has a great understanding of how to play the game and takes nothing away in terms of chemistry.

The real question is how long it will take for Wally Szczerbiak to get back and how they integrate him and Troy Hudson into the rotation. Remember, until last night's loss, the T-Wolves had the best record in the West, and they still lead the Midwest Division. I think they have the pieces to really be a factor in the West, and there is no doubt in my mind they could and should be a 1 or 2 seed.

Padraic Duffy from Rapid City, S.D., writes:
As a Celtics fan, I'm wondering how long do you think GM Danny Ainge can keep his job? Obviously he has to get another year, but this team, and the trades he has made to "improve" it are a joke. Jiri Welsch is nice, but Antoine Walker for Raef LaFrentz is going to go down as one of the worst trades ever. Keep your head up, Paul.


Ricky Davis
Guard-Forward
Boston Celtics
Profile


2003-2004 SEASON STATISTICS
GM PPG RPG APG FG% FT%
47 13.7 4.9 3.6 .447 .692
A: Padraic, I hear where you're coming from, but Danny Ainge is probably looking three years down the line and is rebuilding. They also got a 2004 first-round pick out of the deal, so they'll have two first-rounders in next year's draft. You really have to be patient and see what comes of those picks. Remember, Paul Pierce was a No. 10 pick, so there is a method to his madness. The real test comes in getting two guys who can have an impact and be part of a winning team. Plus, Ainge also has the flexibility to package those with someone else and still acquire a big-time talent.

With that being said, I don't see this team as a factor in the Eastern Conference for the next two years, and that's why Jim O'Brien resigned. The one question or concern I have is, how does Ricky Davis fit long-term, and can he become the kind of cancer that those in Cleveland felt he was? That is without question a bigger concern during this rebuilding phase.

Sam Ballah from Queens, N.Y., writes:
Many players have been early entries into the NBA draft in recent years. What is your take on this? Has it become a problem, or is it a good thing for the league?


Tracy McGrady
Shooting Guard
Orlando Magic
Profile


2003-2004 SEASON STATISTICS
GM PPG RPG APG FG% FT%
48 27.1 6.0 5.6 .421 .818
A: Great question. First of all, it makes the job of a GM a little more difficult, because you don't know what the learning curve for the young players will be. Will it take three or four years, as it did for T-Mac and Jermaine O'Neal? Or will they contribute from Day One, like LeBron and Carmelo? Or will you reach a point where you still don't know, as is the case with Eddy Curry and Kwame Brown?

Selecting talent is an imperfect science, because the majority of their success depends on their mental make-up. Do they really want to be great? Can they handle the pressure? It can be overwhelming for some, and that's why some guys don't pan out.

I'll give you one tidbit: If you look at the top 15 players in the league right now (and this is just one list; you can certainly debate one or two), you'll see a majority who left school early (or didn't attend at all) and entered the league young. Jason Kidd, Shaq, Kobe, KG, Jermaine O'Neal, T-Mac, Iverson, Duncan, Chris Webber, Nowitzki, Baron Davis, Stephon Marbury, Lebron, Paul Pierce, Peja, Ron Artest, Jamal Mashburn, Ray Allen and you could go on and on. Only Tim Duncan went four years. So with that kind of success ratio, I don't see the trend stopping any time soon.

Thanks, and keep the e-mail coming.
MaTT4281
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2/6/2004  4:20 PM
I think I missed the knicks part...except for

I'll give you one tidbit: If you look at the top 15 players in the league right now (and this is just one list; you can certainly debate one or two), you'll see a majority who left school early (or didn't attend at all) and entered the league young. Jason Kidd, Shaq, Kobe, KG, Jermaine O'Neal, T-Mac, Iverson, Duncan, Chris Webber, Nowitzki, Baron Davis, Stephon Marbury, Lebron, Paul Pierce, Peja, Ron Artest, Jamal Mashburn, Ray Allen and you could go on and on.
s3231
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2/6/2004  4:36 PM
Posted by MaTT4281:

I think I missed the knicks part...except for

I'll give you one tidbit: If you look at the top 15 players in the league right now (and this is just one list; you can certainly debate one or two), you'll see a majority who left school early (or didn't attend at all) and entered the league young. Jason Kidd, Shaq, Kobe, KG, Jermaine O'Neal, T-Mac, Iverson, Duncan, Chris Webber, Nowitzki, Baron Davis, Stephon Marbury, Lebron, Paul Pierce, Peja, Ron Artest, Jamal Mashburn, Ray Allen and you could go on and on.
Yea Case didn't post the Insider about the Knicks. There was an insider about the Knicks being major players in the trading before the deadline.
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
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2/6/2004  4:39 PM
Posted by s3231:
Posted by MaTT4281:

I think I missed the knicks part...except for

I'll give you one tidbit: If you look at the top 15 players in the league right now (and this is just one list; you can certainly debate one or two), you'll see a majority who left school early (or didn't attend at all) and entered the league young. Jason Kidd, Shaq, Kobe, KG, Jermaine O'Neal, T-Mac, Iverson, Duncan, Chris Webber, Nowitzki, Baron Davis, Stephon Marbury, Lebron, Paul Pierce, Peja, Ron Artest, Jamal Mashburn, Ray Allen and you could go on and on.
Yea Case didn't post the Insider about the Knicks. There was an insider about the Knicks being major players in the trading before the deadline.
that was yesterdays or the day befores, check the old posts, I posted that already man
s3231
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2/6/2004  4:42 PM
Posted by Caseloads:
Posted by s3231:
Posted by MaTT4281:

I think I missed the knicks part...except for

I'll give you one tidbit: If you look at the top 15 players in the league right now (and this is just one list; you can certainly debate one or two), you'll see a majority who left school early (or didn't attend at all) and entered the league young. Jason Kidd, Shaq, Kobe, KG, Jermaine O'Neal, T-Mac, Iverson, Duncan, Chris Webber, Nowitzki, Baron Davis, Stephon Marbury, Lebron, Paul Pierce, Peja, Ron Artest, Jamal Mashburn, Ray Allen and you could go on and on.
Yea Case didn't post the Insider about the Knicks. There was an insider about the Knicks being major players in the trading before the deadline.
that was yesterdays or the day befores, check the old posts, I posted that already man
My bad, I saw it today on EPSN so I thought it was today's.
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
s3231
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2/6/2004  4:49 PM
BTW, where did you post it? I found a couple that you posted that had to do with the players that are likely to be traded (where each guy had a list of teams he could go to), but I can't find the insider that talks about the Knicks and two other teams (I forgot which teams) being major players in trading before the dealine.
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
Caseloads
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2/6/2004  6:32 PM
10 teams on the hunt for the missing piece

By Chad Ford
NBA Insider
Send an Email to Chad Ford Thursday, February 5
Updated: February 5
10:38 AM ET

Chat with NBA Insider Chad Ford at 1 p.m. EDT today!

On Tuesday, Insider broke down five teams contemplating a fire sale as the Feb. 19 trade deadline approaches.

Who will be the buyers? It depends on the objective.

Several teams feel they may be just a piece or two away from making a serious run in the playoffs. With so much parity and so many teams stumbling through the first half of the season, several GMs recognize a perfect opportunity to make a run while they have the chance.

Another group of teams isn't looking for a playoff boost. Instead, they're hoping to clear some extra cap space to make a run at a top free agent like Kobe Bryant this summer. Or, they're trying to get below the luxury-tax threshold that owners hate to pay.

Who are they? We thought you'd never ask ...

Hunting for the last piece of the puzzle

# New York Knicks: Isiah Thomas not only wants to make the playoffs this year, he wants to win ... now. An extended playoff run is the perfect tonic for what ails the long suffering fans at MSG, and Thomas knows it. He's been as active as any GM in the league ... though his task is getting pretty tough. Keith Van Horn, Shandon Anderson and now Frank Williams have been the trade bait. Williams will be easy to move, but Van Horn and Anderson are both major challenges.

Isiah would love to add another young, athletic frontcourt player who can run the floor and score in the post. That sure sounds a lot like Rasheed Wallace, Shareef Abdur-Rahim or Antawn Jamison. Do the Knicks have the pieces to get anything like that done? It doesn't look like it at the moment. Kurt Thomas is the Knicks' last valuable trade chip, but Isiah wants to keep him.

# Dallas Mavericks: Every year about this time, Mark Cuban and Don Nelson begin preaching the virtues of sticking with the roster they have. And just about every year around this time, the Mavericks end up making a huge trade.


Mark Cuban would like to add a big man before the trade deadline.
The Mavericks need a tough big man, and everyone knows it. They tried to land Rasheed Wallace last month, but talks went nowhere. Attempts to land Zydrunas Ilgauskas also have fallen short. What they'd really love to have is the package Golden State is offering right now -- Nick Van Exel and Erick Dampier. Problem is, the Mavericks don't have any expiring contracts to give up unless ... Antoine Walker decides to opt out if traded to the Warriors.

Another trade that could make some sense for Dallas? Sending Walker to the Sonics for Brent Barry, Jerome James and Calvin Booth. Barry could give the Mavericks the backcourt depth they've been seeking, and James and Booth are both big bodies who could do really well in Dallas. Booth had the best year of his career playing in Dallas for half a season, and James has the strength and athleticism the Mavs are looking for.

Would a change of scenery change his attitude? In Seattle, Walker would be a perfect fit in the Sonics' offense and give them some much-needed help at the four. He's also low risk. Even if he doesn't opt out of his contract this summer, he only has one more year left on his deal. The long-term savings the Sonics could receive, if Walker didn't pan out, could be substantial.

# Toronto Raptors: The early December trade of Antonio Davis and Jerome Williams for Jalen Rose and Donyell Marshall gave the team a huge spark. But it also shipped away the one and only center in Toronto. Chris Bosh has done an admirable job in the middle, but various injuries and the inevitable rookie wall are starting to slow him down.

If the Raptors want to make a deep playoff run, they need a veteran patrolling the middle. They've pursued Dale Davis in Portland, Theo Ratliff in Atlanta, Zeljko Rebraca in Detroit and Michael Doleac in New York, but so far they've yet to strike gold. The Raptors do have enough assets with expiring contracts (Michael Curry, Michael Bradley, and Morris Peterson) to get something done ... so why haven't they?

If none of those players is available, what about Elden Campbell in Detroit, Jahidi White in Phoenix, Derrick Coleman in Philly or Jerome James in Seattle? All four players can be had for the right price ... which just so happens to be an expiring contract or two. Another deal worth considering? Peterson, Curry and Bradley for Brendan Haywood and Christian Laettner. If the Raptors can swallow one more year of Laettner's deal, Haywood is a pretty decent prize.

# Memphis Grizzlies: Jerry West has done an amazing job of turning the Grizzlies from the laughingstock of the league into a serious contender for the playoffs in just a season and a half as team president. With Hubie Brown considering retirement at the end of the season, West wants to give his players a positive playoff experience under Brown before it's too late.

The Grizzlies' biggest weakness is in the middle -- a problem West has been trying to solve since July 1. He's probably wishing he had Wesley Person and Brevin Knight back right about now. A combination of those two expiring contracts along with Stromile Swift's expiring deal could have landed him Dampier and Van Exel.

The guy they have their eye on now is Eddy Curry. Would a combo of Swift and Shane Battier get it done if the Grizzlies took back one of the Bulls' bad contracts (Eddie Robinson) in return? There's also some mild interest in Jerome James, but the Grizzlies won't swap Swift for James straight up.

# Boston Celtics: Now that the Celtics are in official rebuilding mode, Danny Ainge might as well wipe out the last remnants of the Rick Pitino-Chris Wallace era while everyone is already hurting. If you're going to rip the band-aid off -- do it quickly.

Ainge has one last bullet in his gun. Chris Mills' $6.6 million deal comes off the books this summer and insurance is picking up 80 percent of his salary this season. Pair him with Chris Mihm (who won't be eligible to be traded until Feb. 15) and Walter McCarty, and the Celtics could get back something nice in return. Word is they've already pursued Brent Barry. A player like Juwan Howard also could make some sense.

Cutting the cap

# Detroit Pistons: Joe Dumars knows he has to get more than $6 million under the cap if he's going to have any chance to re-sign Mehmet Okur. Corliss Williamson and Chucky Atkins are the trade bait. Both players are talented with slightly bloated contracts. Neither, however, is untradeable. Dumars needs an expiring contract back in return and will be working the phones right up until the deadline in an attempt to get $8-10 million under the cap for this summer.

# Phoenix Suns: They cleared a ton of cap space when they shipped Stephon Marbury and Penny Hardaway to New York. But if they're going to be a big-time player in free agency, they need to get one more contract off the books. Their efforts have centered on moving Jahidi White who, ironically, they swapped Brevin Knight and his expiring contract for earlier this year when they still believed they'd be a playoff contender. With teams like the Raptors desperate for a big man, can Bryan Colangelo get something done? If he does, the Suns could be looking at $12-14 million in cap room this summer. Otherwise, $6.5 million is a more accurate assessment.

# Los Angeles Clippers: The Clips already are looking at roughly $12 million in cap space this summer. If they choose to not pick up Marko Jaric's option, that number goes to $14 million. However, that still may not be enough to get Kobe Bryant. That's why there's so much talk about them trading away Melvin Ely. He doesn't get playing time right now anyway, and getting that $1.75 million off the books for next season could make all the difference in the world.

# Washington Wizards: If Ernie Grunfeld can find a way to get Christian Laettner (one year, $6.6 million left) off the books, the Wizards could also be big players in this summer's free-agent market. With Laettner gone, they'd be looking at around $8 million in cap space. Even better, if they can package him with Larry Hughes (who becomes expendable with Jerry Stackhouse back) the savings could increase to $13 million.

# Milwaukee Bucks: Larry Harris has done an unbelievable job of cutting payroll while still putting a very competitive team on the floor. If he could find someone willing to take the last two years of Tim Thomas' contract off his hands, the Bucks could be $10 million under the cap next year as well.

Around the League

# Sonics, Bulls should make a deal: Not on the list above, but just as popular, are the Sonics, a team that still doesn't know exactly where it stands. The team has been a solid success story this season and, with Ray Allen now in all-star form, the playoffs certainly don't seem out of the question. In the last few month the team has discovered one young potential star, Ronald Murray, and found out that Antonio Daniels, with his tough defense and top assist-to-turnover ratio, can make Nate McMillan a very happy man.


Brent Barry
Guard
Seattle SuperSonics
Profile


2003-2004 SEASON STATISTICS
GM PPG RPG APG FG% FT%
40 10.6 3.5 5.5 .497 .838

So what now? GM Rick Sund has been preaching patience since last summer. He knows that the Sonics are in the throes of rebuilding and doesn't want to act too rashly or give up on any young player too quickly. With that said, teams are knocking down his door right now trying to get at three or four players who everyone believes should be available -- Brent Barry, Vladimir Radmanovic, Jerome James and, to a lesser extent, Murray. With the Sonics clearly in need of a low-post scorer and rebounder, is it time to pull the trigger and make a deal?

Everyone from the Celtics, Bulls and Pacers have been after Barry -- even though he's out the next four weeks with a broken finger on his shooting hand. Several teams, in desperate need of a center for a playoff run, think they can rehabilitate James. Radmanovic and Murray are seen as talented prospects who just don't fit what Seattle is doing right now.

Still, Sund has been reluctant to pull the trigger on a trade. Can someone make the Sonics an offer they can't refuse? If the Bulls offered Jamal Crawford, Eddy Curry and, say, Jerome Williams for Barry, Radmanovic, James and Murray -- wouldn't the Sonics have to consider? Curry, despite his struggles in Chicago, is still one of the most promising centers in the league. He just needs a change of scenery. Crawford, a home town guy, would love to play in Seattle and would be great in the backcourt with Ray Allen. Williams is the type of high energy, rebounding force that McMillian would love to have -- at least until Nick Collison is ready to contribute.

The Bulls would be set in the backcourt with Barry, Murray and Kirk Hinrich. Radmanovic gives them the perimeter shooting and versatility they crave and James, for what's it's worth, is a big body with only one year left on his contract. The fact that all players come off the books soon, and that they can move Williams' long-term deal, has to be a big plus to the Bulls. Bulls fans won't like this trade, but this is what it's coming to in Chicago.

# Blazers pushing Stoudamire? Talks of Nick Van Exel and Erick Dampier to Portland for Rasheed Wallace is on the back burner at the moment. It's the best deal the Blazers have been offered, but no one is sure whether it's good enough. The Warriors are desperately trying to move Van Exel and it's pretty hard to see how they'll find any other team willing to take his contract and be willing to give up an expiring contract in return.


Damon Stoudamire
Point Guard
Portland Trail Blazers
Profile


2003-2004 SEASON STATISTICS
GM PPG RPG APG FG% FT%
47 12.5 3.4 6.1 .407 .900

That's spawned speculation that the Blazers also want the Warriors to take on the last year of Damon Stoudamire's contract to make the deal more palatable for Portland. That's much more problematic for the Warriors. The Warriors are interested in moving Van Exel and Erick Dampier to get under the cap for this summer. Taking on Stoudamire would make that much tougher.

The Blazers are said to want the expiring contracts of Avery Johnson and Adonal Foyle as part of the deal. That just doesn't work for Golden State. To stay far enough under the cap for the deal to make sense, the Blazers would have to be willing to take back Cliff Robinson, Evan Eschmeyer and Popeye Jones to make Stoudamire part of the trade. If the Blazers agreed to that, the Warriors would still be $17 million under the cap this summer. They could easily afford to work out a buyout with Stoudamire for his last season. Would the Blazers be willing to swallow one more year of Robinson's contract and three more years of Eschmeyer's to dump Sheed and Damon? That seems like a dream deal for the Blazers -- especially if they can also get Dale Davis out of town.

# NBA age limit dealt a death blow? Ohio State running back Maurice Clarett was ruled eligible for the NFL draft today by a federal judge who concluded that the league's rule violates antitrust laws. The judge ordered the NFL to let Clarett enter April's draft. If the ruling holds up on appeal, it could be a death blow to the NBA, which is trying to establish a minimum age to enter the league. League lawyers and the Players Association have long worried that any age limit, even if collectively bargained, could lose a legal challenge. This ruling seems to confirm their worst fears.

Peep Show

By Chad Ford
NBA Insider
Send an Email to Chad Ford Thursday, February 5
Updated: February 5
10:14 AM ET

New York Knicks: Jermaine O'Neal didn't appreciate the Knicks' response after their latest victory against his Pacers. "We just have to have a long memory," O'Neal said in the N.Y. Times. "They played very well. They celebrated like they won a championship, though. We'll remember that." But the Knicks didn't very well like that response either. "Jermaine O'Neal hasn't won any championships," Stephon Marbury said. "If that was Shaquille O'Neal saying that, it's one thing. But he hasn't won one championship. He hasn't won one playoff series playing in Indiana yet, so for us, we felt like we were making strides. I would rather us feel like how we felt last night than to act like we didn't do something. They're a really good team, and beating a really good team and going where we came from, you know, we're making really big steps."


Francis
Houston Rockets: Steve Francis will say that he's not feuding with head coach Jeff Van Gundy, but it sure does sound like it when he opens his mouth. "I don't feel like I let (the team) down," Francis said in the Houston Chronicle after being suspended for a game. "I missed the plane. That's it. That's what I was fined for. That's what I was suspended for. The plane left at 2 (p.m.), and I came at 2:15. So I was late, of course. I have my own (deal with a) charter service, and I was going to charter, and he told me, 'Don't come.' I could have been there way before everybody went to bed that night. So if he wanted to suspend me because that's what he felt, then hey, so be it." And Van Gundy wasn't about to back down, either. "I don't think you ever (just move on)," Van Gundy said. "Look, we totally disagree. I don't think there is any doubt about that. He's not backing down on what he thinks, and I'm not backing down on what I think. I'm not trying to minimize what Steve and I went through. The critical thing is ... what he told me on the phone, he has said that was not correct. He was trying to not let on about the personal problems. We both acknowledge that what he told me is what he told me, but now he's saying it was something else. The story changed a bit. Truly, I only know what he told me, and only he knows the truth."

Boston Celtics: Vin Baker has been falling back on bad habits and now he's back with his old agent trying to salvage his career. "Yes, I've been working with him for about a month now," said agent Aaron Goodwin in the Boston Globe. "Vin is real close. Physically, he's ready. We're hopeful to get him back as soon as possible. That is what we would like, if possible. Vin is doing everything to stay in compliance. He's doing everything to make it back on the court. He's a great kid. He's working hard to beat his addiction. But he needs support from all parties."

Philadelphia 76ers: You, I and the Detroit Pistons might be surprised that Larry Brown is hanging around the Sixers practice facility, but not the Sixers. "Not for us," said head coach Randy Ayers. "I knew he was coming in. Last week, he told me he may stop by. I've seen him a number of times in Philadelphia when he's been back in town . . . A lot of times we just talk strategy and personnel. The same old things we've talked with Coach about for six years, we talked about today. Coach has been a good friend, a mentor. Today was no different. It's not surprising to me. It's nothing out of the ordinary to be around Coach during the season."

Los Angeles Lakers: You can fine Shaquille O'Neal. You can suspend Shaquille O'Neal. But you can't keep Shaquille O'Neal from being Shaquille O'Neal. "I said what I felt, and people try to control people," he said in the Los Angeles Times. "But you can never control me. I'm a 31-year-old juvenile delinquent. Nobody can control me. I regret not being there for the team, but it wasn't my decision. Things you can't control, you should never worry about." He also re-iterated that he wants his teammates to keep passing him the ball. "Guys are coming to me every time down, which means they want me to do something with it," he said. "It's good. I finally feel like the old Shaq."

* O'Neal's Parting Shot Fails to Ruffle Knicks
Steve Popper / New York Times
* Francis, coach say relationship fine as differing accounts linge
Jonathan Feigen / Houston Chronicle
* Baker's agent hopeful
Shira Springer / Boston Globe
* Ayers: Brown's visiting Sixers is no big deal
Joe Juliano / Philadelphia Inquirer
* O'Neal Leaves a Post-Up Note
Tim Brown / Los Angeles Times
MaTT4281
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2/6/2004  6:36 PM
i remember reading that article now.
Caseloads
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2/6/2004  6:36 PM
Check under the topic I had started, yesterday, "young weezy"

and from now on... http://www.hawksquawk.net/forums/postlist.php?Cat=0&Board=aroundtl

that's where i get them from. so... check there from now on, please bookmark that
s3231
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2/7/2004  4:21 PM
Thanks a lot Case
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
Post Insider About The Knicks Please

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