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MSG3
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3/11/2011  1:36 PM
Our percieved lack of depth last night really killed us. And while I admit we are not very deep, I think we're better off than a lot of people realize. If TD can keep playing well off the bench when Billups is back I think we have a solid bench. TD, Williams, Carter, Mason, Turiaf isn't what the Mavs or Lakers have but it's better than what Miami has and not too far from Boston. We still lack height but we've seen times when our effort is there we do a decent enough job on the boards. To me the deepest teams in the league are Dallas, LAL, OKC, and SA. Who else is significantly deeper than we are?

We're not quite there yet but I think we have a deep enough team to be a 2nd or 3rd round team. Last nights loss didn't bother me as much as the Memphis win did (blowing the lead) to be honest. The thing that has to stay consistent is the effort. That has to come from MDA, STAT, Melo and Billups.

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misterearl
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3/11/2011  2:12 PM
MSG3 - whereas your optimism is appreciated, how can any franchise compete without a center?

Lead Guard - The good news: Douglas is gaining valuable experience. The bad news: knee injuries to 34 year old athletes are never a good thing. Never. Ever.

Guard - The good news: Landry is the hottest rookie in the gaaaayyymmmee! The bad news: he is a rookie and Anthony Carter, while gritty, has limited offense.

Skill Forward - The good news: we have Carmelo. The bad news: we have Jared Jeffries. Good News: Shawne Williams can shoot. Bad News: Bill Walker is getting rusty.

Larger Forward - The Good News: Amare said "the Knicks are back!" The bad news: that expires when the playoffs get serious and no one takes any team for granted. The Good News: Ronny Turiaf brings great energy. The Bad News: It only lasts for ten minutes.

Center - The Good News: someone will answer the bell The Bad News: there is nobody home

once a knick always a knick
Rookie
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Joined: 10/15/2008
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3/11/2011  2:15 PM
Rome wasn't built in a day...and neither was Dallas, LAL, OKC, and SA

of those teams....Dallas has 1 max salary, LAL has 2 max salaries, OKC has 0 and built mostly through the draft, and SA has 1 max salary

i see the nicks and LAL as being similar in that they are in big markets and can afford to go over the cap to put hardware in the trophy case

i'd like to see us get a center at 10-13M and spend the rest on role players in 2012. As good as CP3 is...having 3 max guys is a real luxury

MSG3
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3/11/2011  2:34 PM
I agree that our biggest glaring weakness is lack of true Center. And it's tough to say "well besides that we're ok", since it's such a weakness and so important. But...um....besides that I think we're getting there. Like I said we may shock some people and sneak into the 2nd round or with a ton of luck and effort the ECF. But we need a true big man that's there to rebound and defend to take the step to being elite.
misterearl
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3/11/2011  2:36 PM
Three Fatal Flaws

1. The Knicks have only one reliable scorer off the bench and that is sixth man Shawne Williams. The bench scoring has been abyssmal.

2. Amare at center equals more turnovers.

3. Quality centers, at any cost, are extremely difficult to scout, recruit and sign. They also take longer to develop.

once a knick always a knick
Moonangie
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3/11/2011  2:42 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/11/2011  2:43 PM
misterearl wrote:MSG3 - whereas your optimism is appreciated, how can any franchise compete without a center?

Lead Guard - The good news: Douglas is gaining valuable experience. The bad news: knee injuries to 34 year old athletes are never a good thing. Never. Ever.

Guard - The good news: Landry is the hottest rookie in the gaaaayyymmmee! The bad news: he is a rookie and Anthony Carter, while gritty, has limited offense.

Skill Forward - The good news: we have Carmelo. The bad news: we have Jared Jeffries. Good News: Shawne Williams can shoot. Bad News: Bill Walker is getting rusty.

Larger Forward - The Good News: Amare said "the Knicks are back!" The bad news: that expires when the playoffs get serious and no one takes any team for granted. The Good News: Ronny Turiaf brings great energy. The Bad News: It only lasts for ten minutes.

Center - The Good News: someone will answer the bell The Bad News: there is nobody home

Billups has a deep thigh bruise, not a knee injury. It's more like a glorified charlie horse than an ACL tear.

misterearl
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3/11/2011  2:50 PM
What is a "glorified charlie horse"?

Billups said, "When I got hit, it shifted my knee. I got extra swelling..."

Moonangie - any time the knee moves on contact it cannot be a good thing. Thankfully, no one has used the words ACL or MCL until you.

"I'm not going to say definitely anything, When I'm able to play, I'll play." - Chauncey Billups

once a knick always a knick
fishmike
Posts: 53832
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3/11/2011  2:59 PM
MSG3 wrote:Our percieved lack of depth last night really killed us. And while I admit we are not very deep, I think we're better off than a lot of people realize. If TD can keep playing well off the bench when Billups is back I think we have a solid bench. TD, Williams, Carter, Mason, Turiaf isn't what the Mavs or Lakers have but it's better than what Miami has and not too far from Boston. We still lack height but we've seen times when our effort is there we do a decent enough job on the boards. To me the deepest teams in the league are Dallas, LAL, OKC, and SA. Who else is significantly deeper than we are?

We're not quite there yet but I think we have a deep enough team to be a 2nd or 3rd round team. Last nights loss didn't bother me as much as the Memphis win did (blowing the lead) to be honest. The thing that has to stay consistent is the effort. That has to come from MDA, STAT, Melo and Billups.

no.. it was our ACTUAL lack of depth that killed us. Look at our bench vs theirs. Game over
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
nixluva
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3/11/2011  3:13 PM
The depth thing is really something that helps more over the course of the regular season. Teams can somewhat overcome that in the playoffs cuz the schedule won't have any back to backs. Just one of the many reasons that the playoffs is a different animal. Also the amount of preparation and time to adjust to the same opponent over multiple games. The lack of size is a bigger issue than the depth thing IMO.
MSG3
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3/11/2011  3:26 PM
fishmike wrote:
MSG3 wrote:Our percieved lack of depth last night really killed us. And while I admit we are not very deep, I think we're better off than a lot of people realize. If TD can keep playing well off the bench when Billups is back I think we have a solid bench. TD, Williams, Carter, Mason, Turiaf isn't what the Mavs or Lakers have but it's better than what Miami has and not too far from Boston. We still lack height but we've seen times when our effort is there we do a decent enough job on the boards. To me the deepest teams in the league are Dallas, LAL, OKC, and SA. Who else is significantly deeper than we are?

We're not quite there yet but I think we have a deep enough team to be a 2nd or 3rd round team. Last nights loss didn't bother me as much as the Memphis win did (blowing the lead) to be honest. The thing that has to stay consistent is the effort. That has to come from MDA, STAT, Melo and Billups.

no.. it was our ACTUAL lack of depth that killed us. Look at our bench vs theirs. Game over

I'm not saying that we are anywhere near as deep as Dallas. And yes, I said last night our depth killed us. BUT, what I am saying is that when we're healthy our depth isn't as glaring of an issue. We have 2 pretty relizble scorers in TD and Williams.

Big man is key to becoming elite and it's not going to be easy to get one to mesh well here.

misterearl
Posts: 38786
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3/11/2011  3:35 PM
MSG3 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
MSG3 wrote:Our percieved lack of depth last night really killed us. And while I admit we are not very deep, I think we're better off than a lot of people realize. If TD can keep playing well off the bench when Billups is back I think we have a solid bench. TD, Williams, Carter, Mason, Turiaf isn't what the Mavs or Lakers have but it's better than what Miami has and not too far from Boston. We still lack height but we've seen times when our effort is there we do a decent enough job on the boards. To me the deepest teams in the league are Dallas, LAL, OKC, and SA. Who else is significantly deeper than we are?

We're not quite there yet but I think we have a deep enough team to be a 2nd or 3rd round team. Last nights loss didn't bother me as much as the Memphis win did (blowing the lead) to be honest. The thing that has to stay consistent is the effort. That has to come from MDA, STAT, Melo and Billups.

no.. it was our ACTUAL lack of depth that killed us. Look at our bench vs theirs. Game over

I'm not saying that we are anywhere near as deep as Dallas. And yes, I said last night our depth killed us. BUT, what I am saying is that when we're healthy our depth isn't as glaring of an issue. We have 2 pretty relizble scorers in TD and Williams.

Big man is key to becoming elite and it's not going to be easy to get one to mesh well here.

Insightful take. Here's why.

The next Knicks center must be large and in charge enough to defend the paint, and alert enough to avoid the improvised paths of Amare and Carmelo.

The next Knicks center needs to be at least 6'11 but have the footwork of a ballerina, hands of glue and enough muscle to block out Dwight Howard.

The next Knicks center must have one signature shot, two blocks per game and avoid three second violations

He needs the range of LaMarcus Aldridge, the court awareness of Marcus Camby and the bulk of Timofey Mozgov.

He is not a 2012 free agent, 2011 draft selection or on anyones radar.

once a knick always a knick
technomaster
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3/11/2011  3:38 PM
Well, maybe it's just that we played an extremely emotional game the night before... and it took a while for us to match Dallas's energy.

I think our overall lineup/depth can match up pretty well against any team, perhaps with the exception of the Lakers, Celtics, and maybe the Heat.

“That was two, two from the heart.” - John Starks
misterearl
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3/11/2011  4:17 PM
All The Games Are Emotional

technomaster - I never subscribed to the whole "matching energy" cliche. Sometimes it just boils down to making shots. While Amare (slow start) and Carmelo (5-15) were hoisting bricks, the Mavs were taking a 26 point lead.

The Knicks made 34 per cent of their shots and the Mavs made 47. If that is a feature of being exhausted, then yes, that can be linked to lacking depth. If the Knicks were sluggish, it is certainly alleviated by having subs with fresh legs who can contribute efficient scoring and bonus points.

once a knick always a knick
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