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Jared Jefferies vs Shawn Williams
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mreinman
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3/11/2011  12:54 AM
I am having a hard time understanding the facination with JJ. His offense is aweful (obviously) and his defense is overated. He can't guard the 5 because he is to weak and is not a good rebounder. His p and r defense tonight was worse than aweful. He showed on picks all night and the maverick just turned the corner and went right past him for easy hoops/drives.

Williams on the other hand is an underrated defender and as good or even a bit better of a rebounder than JJ. He is ealso a significantly better shot blocker.

Offensively? No comparrison. With JJ we are playing 4 on 5 where one guy is capable now of just roaming and doubling with no threat from JJ. Even if he catches the ball under the basket (if he catches it), he bricks the shot or gets blocked. Williams man cannot leave him and go double.

So, while I agree that JJ overall is/may be a bit better of a defender, that does not warrant him taking minutes from Shawn Williams in my book.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
AUTOADVERT
ramtour420
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3/11/2011  2:56 AM
JJ draws charges and can rotate better. Williams has the offensive part covered nicely and is a better 1v1 + better shot blocker. Jeffries is the little engine that could(try to make a layup without missing more than 2 times in a row)
Everything you have ever wanted is on the other side of fear- George Adair
mreinman
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3/11/2011  3:00 AM
the charges are nice - his rotations are hit or miss.

I don't get it - is he an upgrade over Shawn W? Dont see it.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
Stevo718
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3/11/2011  5:42 AM    LAST EDITED: 3/11/2011  5:58 AM
Thank you... JJ is waaaaay overrated by everyone on this board I just don't see it either. He is an under average player at best. I understand he is not an offensive player but he his defense is really not that good especially if you take into account his height at his position, he is not very athletic either. He doesn't rebound well or block too many shots. I'd rather take AR 100 times over JJ.
MS
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3/11/2011  9:45 AM
He really is one of the 5 worst offensive players in the entire league. He can't make a ****ing layup or catch the ball. Corey Brewer looked good in limited action and would have been a nice guy to add to the rotation.

JJ is also terrible on the glass. He does some nice things occasionally but if you are 6'11 and average 3rbs a game you are not a great defensive player.

And Mike Breen should be taken off the air for his Jefferies references.
Knixkik
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3/11/2011  9:49 AM
We need a true starting center. Jeffries is meant to be a 15-mpg off the bench player who can provide defensive versatility and energy.
mreinman
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3/11/2011  10:07 AM
Knixkik wrote:We need a true starting center. Jeffries is meant to be a 15-mpg off the bench player who can provide defensive versatility and energy.

But is his defense that much better than Shawn Williams?

so here is what phil is thinking ....
Panos
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3/11/2011  10:32 AM
Stevo718 wrote:Thank you... JJ is waaaaay overrated by everyone on this board I just don't see it either. He is an under average player at best. I understand he is not an offensive player but he his defense is really not that good especially if you take into account his height at his position, he is not very athletic either. He doesn't rebound well or block too many shots. I'd rather take AR 100 times over JJ.

Not *everyone* dude.
fishmike
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3/11/2011  11:25 AM
mreinman wrote:
Knixkik wrote:We need a true starting center. Jeffries is meant to be a 15-mpg off the bench player who can provide defensive versatility and energy.

But is his defense that much better than Shawn Williams?

Here is what JJ does... he rotates better than anyone on the team, and he's a master of sagging off his man to help challenge shots. I would say he gets a hand in more shooter's faces than anyone on this team by 2. He's not a poor rebounder, he just doesnt get a lot of rebounds because he's out of position challenging shots. He's more than just 'active' on defense. He covers whole areas of the floor, and when we go to that high zone MDA likes (it worked GREAT vs Memphis) JJ's length really anchors that scheme.

I would say his m2m defense isnt incredible. Its good, but not much better than Shawn Williams for sure.

He clearly makes it easier on other players and the +/- number dont lie
http://www.82games.com/1011/1011NYK.HTM

Knicks are just less than +7 w/ JJ and even without. Obviously a small sample but the number says something very simple: The Knicks have been better when JJ is on the floor.

He's SO bad offensively. I really cant think of a Knick with worse offensive skills. Maybe Chris Dudley... thats not saying much

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
blkexec
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3/11/2011  12:07 PM
Stevo718 wrote:Thank you... JJ is waaaaay overrated by everyone on this board I just don't see it either. He is an under average player at best. I understand he is not an offensive player but he his defense is really not that good especially if you take into account his height at his position, he is not very athletic either. He doesn't rebound well or block too many shots. I'd rather take AR 100 times over JJ.

Really....Maybe Shawn Williams is underrated! Nobody thought he would contribute anything. Then he became this 3 pt specialist. Now he's the defensive specialist? Clearly he has been flying under the radar for some time now. What JJ brings is defensive energy, which is contagous and spreads to the entire team. Should he be our starting center, hell no....But this just shows what our weakness is.

All the solid teams have a solid center and pg. Why you think Miami was struggling? Also, look how Dallas can rotate between Chandler and Brendan Hayward at center, with Jason Kidd manning the point.

We will continue to struggle until we sure up the two most important positions in basketball....Center and PG

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
misterearl
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3/11/2011  12:57 PM
blkexec - lead guard, provided Chauncey Billups injury is not a dislocated kneecap, is masked by the ball handling capability of Carmelo and Landry Fields.

Center is another issue. The Knicks have no center.

Jeffries is a 6'11 small forward. In this case "small" is the operative word. Jeffries contributions to bolster the defensive presence in the paint are minimal. Jeffries is more perimeter oriented and therefore, of less value as a barrier against guys like Tyson Chandler or Brendan Haywood.

Whether the two fewer inches that Shawne Williams brings is a problem, The Answer Man says no for one reason. When was the last time Jared Jeffries dunked? Last night, he got hung up on the rim. He has absolutely no lift and as a result, his shot blocking is null and void. At least Williams is rugged and raw enough to man-up inside.

Besides, Shawne Williams three point shot makes defenders hesitate to double team our stars.

once a knick always a knick
technomaster
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3/11/2011  1:00 PM
At least Chris Dudley could throw it down.

It would be great if JJ could just finish when given opportunities for layups.

“That was two, two from the heart.” - John Starks
misterearl
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3/11/2011  1:10 PM
Jared Jeffries Can't Jump

technomaster - JJ has no lift. No hops. No elevation. Nada. At 6'11 that is a damn shame. Jeffries publicist has done a brilliant job with lines about "doing the things that don't show up in the box score". Cool. But...

Guess what?

If it don't show up in the box score it is for a reason. It's called trivia.

Go grab a freakin' rebound.

once a knick always a knick
MS
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3/11/2011  2:48 PM
As a Knicks

0.8pts 4.2rbs 1stl 0.8blks in 24 minutes

Mike Breen please study these stats. Has anyone seen him make a lay up in warm ups. I'm curious?
Panos
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3/11/2011  3:01 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/11/2011  3:02 PM
MS wrote:As a Knicks

0.8pts 4.2rbs 1stl 0.8blks in 24 minutes

Mike Breen please study these stats. Has anyone seen him make a lay up in warm ups. I'm curious?

Please, MS, its what you CAN'T see that's important!
Jared Jeffries is the Emperor's New Clothes. If you can't see how great he is on defense, you must be stupid.
fishmike
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3/11/2011  3:16 PM
MS wrote:As a Knicks

0.8pts 4.2rbs 1stl 0.8blks in 24 minutes

Mike Breen please study these stats. Has anyone seen him make a lay up in warm ups. I'm curious?

but Knicks are +7 with him on the floor. What do you make of that?

All Panos teasing aside I'm not a JJ fan, but the Knicks have been better when he's on the floor and the stats show that.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Panos
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3/11/2011  3:19 PM
fishmike wrote:
MS wrote:As a Knicks

0.8pts 4.2rbs 1stl 0.8blks in 24 minutes

Mike Breen please study these stats. Has anyone seen him make a lay up in warm ups. I'm curious?

but Knicks are +7 with him on the floor. What do you make of that?

All Panos teasing aside I'm not a JJ fan, but the Knicks have been better when he's on the floor and the stats show that.

Please, son. You've been singing his praises since before we resigned him. Don't hedge now.
I'm sure you'll be sick of him soon enough, and look forward to getting a real NBA player to take his place.
misterearl
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3/11/2011  3:26 PM
The Answer Man Knows shooting 18 per cent from the field Is Downright Embarrassing.

fishmike - but Knicks are +7 with him on the floor. What do you make of that?

A. Someone is cooking the books. Activate Herb Williams.

once a knick always a knick
knicks1248
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3/11/2011  3:56 PM
On a scale of 1 to 10 defensively jj is a 5....I just don't see why he gets such a pass when he is the worst offensive player in the league..he has like a total of 5 points in 6 games avg 20 minutes..wtf...that makes no sense
ES
markvmc
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3/11/2011  8:09 PM
I don't care if the reason for Jeffries +/- is that the other team collapse laughing at his missed layups and lose their discipline. If he's worth +7 points to us on the court, that's where he should be.
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