This team didnt even need Carmelo--just let it progress. Instead of cultivating it--we threw a grenade into the huddle.

Donnie Walsh had no part of this trade--anyone who has follow the NBA reasonably long and knows Walsh trading patterns from Indian--knows he didnt do this deal. he knows we got jacked BAD.

BRIGGS wrote:

knickstorrents wrote:We got hosed... it will take us about 4 years to recover, where we will have a normal set of draft pics and the salaries tied up in melo/stoudemire aren't detrimental to the team

LOL 4 years--this is a decade wrecking trade. Remember they will have to flush out then you start over--the worst part about it is we HAD IT!!! I like Amare with the team we had--why did we not sit patiently--why did we let carmelo Anthony dictate the teams future over greed? Why is our owner and pseudo GM thomas so f stupid? these answers next time on Batman. We didnt need Melo--we needed guys like Affalo lawson nene and keptb what we had.. Also Mike D terrible job sticking randolph at the 3 pt line---terrible. He should be gone.

We never had it. The plan all along was to accumulate assets to aid the team's starphucking. They'll accumulate more assets in the next few years and then find the next "star" to overpay for.

Bonn1997 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

knickstorrents wrote:We got hosed... it will take us about 4 years to recover, where we will have a normal set of draft pics and the salaries tied up in melo/stoudemire aren't detrimental to the team

LOL 4 years--this is a decade wrecking trade. Remember they will have to flush out then you start over--the worst part about it is we HAD IT!!! I like Amare with the team we had--why did we not sit patiently--why did we let carmelo Anthony dictate the teams future over greed? Why is our owner and pseudo GM thomas so f stupid? these answers next time on Batman. We didnt need Melo--we needed guys like Affalo lawson nene and keptb what we had.. Also Mike D terrible job sticking randolph at the 3 pt line---terrible. He should be gone.

We never had it. The plan all along was to accumulate assets to aid the team's starphucking. They'll accumulate more assets in the next few years and then find the next "star" to overpay for.

exactly! this is not about "oh now we have to rebuild again."

as far as i'm concerned, this is exactly the team that dolan wants on the floor. tix to last night's game on stubhub were starting at $50! there is a "buzz" now b/c there are 2 stars. sure enough, the prices will be raised next yr. people will "talk" about the knicks but this team is here not to win championships but to make dolan money. if anybody doesn't see that by now you are blind.

take it or leave it. you stay -- you have to deal with the star phucking and the moves that don't put them closer to the championship.

you leave -- just wait out until dolan is no longer affiliated with this team.

this team will not win a championship until there is a new owner in the building. why can't there be a mets-esque madoff scandal to chase fat jimmy out of town?

Paladin55 wrote:Interesting to compare this thread to the Please Fire D'antoni ASAP thread. The trade itself doesn't seem to be a consideration for them.

Ironically, almost from day 1 after the trade (which means Karl had little time to coach his new arrivals) Denver has been a changed team on offense AND defense.

Folks can draw their own conclusions.

Yeah, cause we rolled Cleveland with Gallo/Chandler.

We also played top 10 defense with Gallo/Chandler.

So clearly it's not the coach's fault, but the new players, when we lose a game to Cleveland, while shooting 55% from the floor, and give up 119 points to a bunch of D-leaguers.

Paladin55 wrote:Interesting to compare this thread to the Please Fire D'antoni ASAP thread. The trade itself doesn't seem to be a consideration for them.

Ironically, almost from day 1 after the trade (which means Karl had little time to coach his new arrivals) Denver has been a changed team on offense AND defense.

Folks can draw their own conclusions.

I am not so sure about that. Most of them are too lazy to address reality because it doesn't mesh with whatever delusion they choose to live in.

What Denver's team looks like now, is very similar to what Briggs and a lot of us wanted. Youth, cap room, draft picks, and try to sign or trade someone when it is WORTH it...
Realistically, we should have been able to keep

Mosgov, save 2 2nd rounders and get Twolves 2nd round pick, instead of Denver getting it.
or
keep Chandler at least and a 2nd rounder, gain a better player from the Twolves and Nuggets not get Balkman's contract
or
Get Nene from the Nuggets and maybe Harington, and we put Turiaf in there too

it was just poorly constructed trade, we got squeezed of all our value for Melo. There are many combinations of value we should have got from the above...

We would rather resign Chandler, and a couple role players to add depth. Then make a trade when the opportunity comes. The addition of 2nd tier stars and role players added to our core...
Chris Kaman, Tyson Chandler, Andre Igoduela, Nene

Pietrus, Sessions, Parker...

We had plenty of draft picks, we had cap room, we had youth and value in our players.

It is over though, we have to move on from it. We still have a core of

Amare 18.5m
Melo 18.2m
Fields 800k
Tony Douglous 1.2
with

billups? Can anyone please tell me if Billups gets bought out, does any salary count vs the cap?
1st round pick 1.2m
Bill Walker 800k
Rautins 800k
Balkman 1.7m
Turiaf? 4.4m Theres a 50 chance he will opt out of his contract for a longer contract.
Jerome Jordan

total 50m

2 2nd round picks from GS, anyone know what years they are?

I have reason to believe that the Knicks are thinking about cutting big shot Billups go this summer. I think that is the reason they let Brewer go. They don't see him in the Knicks future. They want to go under the cap. Think about it, if Mcants turns out to be a decent player with upside, he would have value next year and can be used in a trade. Also we could have kept KA, and sign him to a 1 year deal just to have someone to match salaries with. Give him a 1 year 7m? He was a pretty good role player before his injury.
And we would need players to match salaries. If they are planning to sign a player in 2012, they can't add any salaries except for one year deals and cant use the MLE if it still there, min is 3 years. I think the Bi annual Veteran 1.4 or 1.8 is a 2 year deal as well. So we can only offer min deals. I dont think we can even keep Shawne WIlliams.
He has to be looking for more than a 1 year min deal...

with our own 1st round pick, 2 future 2nd round picks from GS,

we can still improve.
We might have to gamble investing in TD, to be a future PG. We still can find another gem with our 1st round pick this year.
I think we have too many holes to fill, I love Billups as a player but I would have to let him go to fill our needs. However, if we sign him and the MLE still exist, I am not sure
which is the better route. If we don't sign him then we lose the MLE.

if we dont pick up Billups option, we will have rougly 10m. I didnt include aren't 4.4m Turiaf is making. Problem is, if we dont pick up Billups, there is a good shot he will join the heat and he will be great with the heat...
If we dont pick up Billups contract, can we still sign and trade him in the summer?

We can add 1 more star or add 2-3 role players. Not including min deals.

starting caliber PGs we can pick up are Tony Parker, Mo Williams, Aaron Brooks, Affalo
these guys might not take up all our cap either, we can get another good role player...

Role players I like include (we have to get them at good prices though, def can't overpay for these players)
If we pick up Billups contract and can add players in this list for the min, it would be interesting too.

We still have a couple routes and decisions to make for our future, especially this summer.

1)Are we going to be mediocre and save salary for 2012 summer? using just 1 year deals, keep billups?
2)Sign Billups, use MLE, and go for it all?
3)not sign billups, and use all our cap room
a) 1 star Tyson Chandler, Gasol, Nene, Deandre Jordan(hes not going to come cheap if we want him)
b) lots of role players and have depth with 10-14m of cap room (Glen Davis, Humpries, Prizbilla, AParker,Barnes, Shannon Brown) probably can sign 3-5 if Turaif opts out
c) try to sign 2 older stars, semi stars, quality players mo williams, Tparker, samuel dalembert,yao ming

Kris Humphries
Joel Prizbilla
Shannon Brown
Matt Barnes
Anthony Parker
Delonte West

if price is right (3-5m)
Shane Battier
Prince
Glen Davis (5-7m)

Starting Centers
Tyson Chandler (would cost us all of our cap, probably need Turiaf to let go of his option)
Mark Gasol
Yao ming
Deandre Jordan
Samuel Dalembert
Nene

Free Agency

Tyson Chandler
Glen Davis
Yao Ming

Dalembert
Joel Przybilla
Kris Humphries
Dampier

Troy Murphy
Reggie Evans
Joe Smith

Zack Randolph
David West *player option*

Shannon Brown
Matt Barnes
Caron Butler
Tayshaun Prince
Carl Landry
Shane Battier

Tony Parker

3rd/4th Years
Mark Gasol
Deandre Jordan
Spencer Hawes
Greg Oden
Jeff Green *4th year*
Thaddeus Young
Nick Young
Aaron Brooks
Arron Afflalo
Wilson Chandler

Mo Williams *player option*
Jamal Crawford
Jason Richardson

Cheap fixes/aged stars/low maintenance/low ball
Chris Wilcox
Nazr Mohammed
Kwame Brown
Jared Jeffries
Jason Collins

Jamario Moon *team option*

Tracy McGrady
Von Wafer
Marquis Daniels
Jason Kapono
Predrag Stojakovic
Leon Powe
Mo Evans
James Jones
DeShawn Stevenson

Rudy Fern
Jose Juan Barea
TJ Ford
Anthony Parker
Delonte West
Sasha Vujacic
Carlos Arroyos
Earl Watson
Ronnie Price
Antione Wright

We gave up a lot for this Denver trade but we still have options. 2 2nd rounders GS, 1st round pick.
We have to move on.......