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To have any reaonabkle chane 2 success--this team has to develop into halfcourt team
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BRIGGS
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2/27/2011  9:56 AM
the second we made this trade--the entire complexity of the team changed. The personnel DO NOT fit MDA's up tempo system. We need to slow the game down--find some BIG C who can clog the lane(they don't have to be perfect)but I need legit 6-11 260 who has the ability to do 10-10-2 in FA in addition to bringing in Jordan.(3 C) We need to see if we can add an additional PF through the draft and if we can do it--get an extra pick 4 a quality back up PG who can give me two way play.
RIP Crushalot😞
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Uptown
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2/27/2011  10:07 AM
Turning this roster into a halfcourt team is one-giant-step in the right playoff direction. We were never going to win big playing the run-and-gun chuck 3's system. Next step, as you stated, get a Tyson Chandler like Center, a legit back up 2, and a coach who can instill a defensive system.
Elite
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2/27/2011  10:08 AM
I agree, you can see it already, the Knicks are now a half court team that can run at times but more effective when setting up.

They need size MORE desperately than they did before the trade and they needed it bad before the trade.

before we were small but long and fast so if we hustled we could have an advantage... now we are small but slow... can't have that combo, you will get beat
nixluva
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2/27/2011  10:26 AM
Dude we've only seen what they look like after one practice together. This offense works even if you slow it down. It's always had a halfcourt component to it. It's still a fast offense even without pushing the ball all the time. We don't push the ball even on makes like they used to do in PHX. Still we score a lot. The efficiency still isn't always what it should be, but this has pretty much been a slower version of his offense. The idea is to play at speed, but not necessarily running full court. Motion and ball movement in the halfcourt is what he's been having them try to do and that will continue to get better. In time there should be less of the ISO ball stopping stuff.

As for finding some big guy, let's be realistic. Those guys aren't just walking around with nothing to do. Any big worth suiting up is already in a situation, cuz good bigs are rare. Just cuz a guy has size doesn't mean he's going to be effective either. I do agree that they need to focus on the PF and C spot in the draft as well as try to find a GOOD backup PG.
Paladin55
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2/27/2011  10:33 AM
Elite wrote:I agree, you can see it already, the Knicks are now a half court team that can run at times but more effective when setting up.

They need size MORE desperately than they did before the trade and they needed it bad before the trade.

before we were small but long and fast so if we hustled we could have an advantage... now we are small but slow... can't have that combo, you will get beat


So now we have become a small but slow team, with two players- Amare and Melo, who have the same style of play.

We need a center on D, big time, but where is the guy going to play on the offensive end?

In essence, you need a center with the defensive abilities of a Dalembert and the offensive abilities of a Frye, or you will have a stagnant offense with a serious logjam in the middle, where Melo, Amare, and your 5 are stepping over each other's toes.

An ultimate Catch 22, IMO, and one that will probably see MDA gone at the end of this season, much to the delight of some of you.

No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
nykshaknbake
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2/27/2011  10:50 AM
Yeah we don't have the PG for a helter skelter game anymore...maybe TSOL?
GustavBahler
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2/27/2011  10:56 AM
I agree, might help Amare's knees and keep Billups around longer. I was all for pushing the ball early in the season, it was a younger team and they had their best games when they ran, but that was then, this is now. I'm confident Donnie will get us a serviceable center.
JohnWallace44
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2/27/2011  10:57 AM
We took two players from a fast paced, #1 ranked scoring team folks...

I think we'll be more effective now than we were in the half court, but the idea that we can't run is way off.

The FA's we pick up will be very important though as far as determining our style for the rest of the year.

Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
nixluva
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2/27/2011  10:58 AM
Paladin55 wrote:
Elite wrote:I agree, you can see it already, the Knicks are now a half court team that can run at times but more effective when setting up.

They need size MORE desperately than they did before the trade and they needed it bad before the trade.

before we were small but long and fast so if we hustled we could have an advantage... now we are small but slow... can't have that combo, you will get beat


So now we have become a small but slow team, with two players- Amare and Melo, who have the same style of play.

We need a center on D, big time, but where is the guy going to play on the offensive end?

In essence, you need a center with the defensive abilities of a Dalembert and the offensive abilities of a Frye, or you will have a stagnant offense with a serious logjam in the middle, where Melo, Amare, and your 5 are stepping over each other's toes.

An ultimate Catch 22, IMO, and one that will probably see MDA gone at the end of this season, much to the delight of some of you.


Mike found a way to work with Zach and a team that wasn't designed to run. I think people still underestimate this guys knowledge of BB. It's never been about the offense. He usually figures out something. This is 3 years in a row of massive changes to the team. He's gonna get a chance to coach this new team with a full training camp. There's no way they get rid of him unless the team doesn't make the playoffs. That's the only way I see them getting rid of Mike.
Michael6835
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2/27/2011  11:02 AM
Offense is not the problem, MDA is great at that, he'll design schemes to make it work. He's had a 2 game sample to game plan, not much to work from. Right now, we are seeing similar moments when Miami first got together, they were playing good with each other on the bench.


By having Melo, it automatically gives us a half court offense. Melo can play in the post, Amare can't, it's not his game. We have options, perhaps we should take some plays from LA's Triangle offense. They never had super dominant centers, its possible.

M
Bonn1997
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2/27/2011  11:19 AM
JohnWallace44 wrote:We took two players from a fast paced, #1 ranked scoring team folks...

I think we'll be more effective now than we were in the half court, but the idea that we can't run is way off.

The FA's we pick up will be very important though as far as determining our style for the rest of the year.

There's a lot of things I don't like about what we did but Melo and Amare should be able to finish fast breaks very effectively. I don't really get the premise of this thread.
babyKnicks
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2/27/2011  11:46 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
JohnWallace44 wrote:We took two players from a fast paced, #1 ranked scoring team folks...

I think we'll be more effective now than we were in the half court, but the idea that we can't run is way off.

The FA's we pick up will be very important though as far as determining our style for the rest of the year.

There's a lot of things I don't like about what we did but Melo and Amare should be able to finish fast breaks very effectively. I don't really get the premise of this thread.

Wow Bonn. I agree.

Let's go Knicks. That's amare
Vmart
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2/27/2011  12:03 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
JohnWallace44 wrote:We took two players from a fast paced, #1 ranked scoring team folks...

I think we'll be more effective now than we were in the half court, but the idea that we can't run is way off.

The FA's we pick up will be very important though as far as determining our style for the rest of the year.

There's a lot of things I don't like about what we did but Melo and Amare should be able to finish fast breaks very effectively. I don't really get the premise of this thread.

I agree, this is nothig but a another BRIGGS panic thread. The problems for the KNicks are going to stem from MDA's inability to teach team defense that has always been his downfall.
Sangfroid
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2/27/2011  12:21 PM
Vmart wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
JohnWallace44 wrote:We took two players from a fast paced, #1 ranked scoring team folks...

I think we'll be more effective now than we were in the half court, but the idea that we can't run is way off.

The FA's we pick up will be very important though as far as determining our style for the rest of the year.

There's a lot of things I don't like about what we did but Melo and Amare should be able to finish fast breaks very effectively. I don't really get the premise of this thread.

I agree, this is nothig but a another BRIGGS panic thread. The problems for the KNicks are going to stem from MDA's inability to teach team defense that has always been his downfall.

I think defense comes from the players willingness to play D. When a player goes unguarded due to a mental lapse or unnecesary double teams, the coach can't be blamed. At best, he can remove the player and send in a sub with nedw instructions.

"We are playing a game. We are playing at not playing a game..."
Vmart
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2/27/2011  12:31 PM
Sangfroid wrote:
Vmart wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
JohnWallace44 wrote:We took two players from a fast paced, #1 ranked scoring team folks...

I think we'll be more effective now than we were in the half court, but the idea that we can't run is way off.

The FA's we pick up will be very important though as far as determining our style for the rest of the year.

There's a lot of things I don't like about what we did but Melo and Amare should be able to finish fast breaks very effectively. I don't really get the premise of this thread.

I agree, this is nothig but a another BRIGGS panic thread. The problems for the KNicks are going to stem from MDA's inability to teach team defense that has always been his downfall.

I think defense comes from the players willingness to play D. When a player goes unguarded due to a mental lapse or unnecesary double teams, the coach can't be blamed. At best, he can remove the player and send in a sub with nedw instructions.

Player willingness is aways needed, but the coach has to bring it out of them. Just as MDA has an ability to bring out the best in the players offensive ability, a defensive coach has the same ability to bring the best out of players with their defensive coaching. This is all on the coach, the scheme has to be in place. MDA has an excellent offensive scheme but his defensive scheme is lacking that is why a good defensive minded assistant is needed.
OldFan
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2/27/2011  12:55 PM
There is only one player in the league 6'11 260 averaging 10pts and 10 rebounds and 2 blocks. Guess who?

Not that I disagree that this is a real need but that's a high bar. I'd settle for anyone who could play solid D against bigs and help on the boards a little. There just are not that many strong rebounding shot blockers who play good post D and can score a little in the league.
loweyecue
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2/27/2011  1:08 PM
nixluva wrote:Dude we've only seen what they look like after one practice together. This offense works even if you slow it down. It's always had a halfcourt component to it. It's still a fast offense even without pushing the ball all the time. We don't push the ball even on makes like they used to do in PHX. Still we score a lot. The efficiency still isn't always what it should be, but this has pretty much been a slower version of his offense. The idea is to play at speed, but not necessarily running full court. Motion and ball movement in the halfcourt is what he's been having them try to do and that will continue to get better. In time there should be less of the ISO ball stopping stuff.

As for finding some big guy, let's be realistic. Those guys aren't just walking around with nothing to do. Any big worth suiting up is already in a situation, cuz good bigs are rare. Just cuz a guy has size doesn't mean he's going to be effective either. I do agree that they need to focus on the PF and C spot in the draft as well as try to find a GOOD backup PG.

I agree with teh speed thing, the idea that you can either run full speed all the time or be a hal court stagnant offense doesn't fly with me. There has to be something in the middle that can do an do well.

I propose Nolan smith for back up PG, the lithuanian C seems to rank high on mock drafts, may be we get him if he is there? I am not familiar with his game.

TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
tj23
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2/27/2011  1:13 PM
This team needs to run plays. Way too much iso even from billups
holfresh
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2/27/2011  1:28 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/27/2011  1:30 PM
I totally disagree...The Knicks have been running a half court offense since Billups got here...It's the only offense he is comfortable with at the moment until his pick and roll recognition is up to par, and it hasn't been in two games...Switching to half court offense takes Amare as a weapon of the mix...Amare makes a lot of his points and fouls moving towards the basket...Billups is not the future, so we can't tailor the offense around a guy we are not making a Championship run with. We do what we can this year and he will have to learn and adjust...This is really why I so much wanted to keep Felton...He knew the system and can run it...It's not easy to have someone learn and execute this system the way Felton had in three months...He would have gotten better in time...

I think going forward we have to have a hybrid of sorts, to use assets of both Anthony and Amare...The ultimate would be to have Anothony run the pick and roll with Amare...But for now, we play half court and Billups will shine...Ball movement and pick and roll won't be seen for some time...
Ira
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2/27/2011  1:47 PM
Briggs premise is good. We are much slower than before the draft. Having some good finishers doesn't change that. They have to get there before they finish.
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To have any reaonabkle chane 2 success--this team has to develop into halfcourt team
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