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MDA Doesn't coach defense
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loweyecue
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2/27/2011  12:19 AM
To everyone bashing MDA - Please explain why Avery Johnson's Nets are ranked 19th in defensive efficiency and the Knicks are 21st? Shouldn't Avery (God) Johnson have coached his team defense to top 5 levels by now?

http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/defensive-efficiency

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Knicksfan
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2/27/2011  12:32 AM
loweyecue wrote:To everyone bashing MDA - Please explain why Avery Johnson's Nets are ranked 19th in defensive efficiency and the Knicks are 21st? Shouldn't Avery (God) Johnson have coached his team defense to top 5 levels by now?

http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/defensive-efficiency

LOL

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Childs2Dudley
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2/27/2011  12:45 AM
Avery Johnson is an overrated coach so I'm not sure what your point is.

Nobody ever thought he was God.

"Our attitude toward life determines life's attitude towards us." - Earl Nightingale
Nalod
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2/27/2011  12:47 AM
I thought Skiles was god?
CrushAlot
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2/27/2011  12:47 AM
I don't think finding another western conference coach that won at a high rate who didn't coach defense is a basis to make an argument that D'Antoni coaches defense. That being said this article really calls Avery out on his coaching and if accurate, his hiring led to Rod Thorn leaving.

Avery Johnson Fails To Get Net Result


Stephen Dunn/Getty Images When Nets owner Mikhail Prokhorov hired Avery Johnson, he thought he was getting Gregg Popovich.

After all, Johnson told the neophyte owner how much he learned from Popovich and how he would apply those principles to his team. He talked about how he was the guy that turned the Mavericks from a good team to a championship team.

Since Prokhorov knew nothing about the NBA, he trusted whatever Johnson was selling.

Then-Nets president of basketball operations Rod Thorn had other ideas. He wanted to hire either Jeff Van Gundy or Tom Thibodeau to be the next Nets coach. Unfortunately for him, he did not get what he wanted.

Van Gundy did not want the job, and Prokhorov insisted on hiring an experienced coach than a neophyte coach in Thibodeau.

That apparently was enough for Thorn to resign. He didn’t want to deal with Johnson’s diva personality.

Johnson received what he wanted, which is having total control of the basketball operations. If anyone thinks Billy King runs the organization, he or she doesn’t know what goes on with the Nets. King’s title is by name only.

When it came to personnel decisions, Johnson insisted on having input. He wants guys that fit the image of his philosophy, which is working hard and playing defense. He is not a guy that likes to win games on offense. He would have complained about the roster if he worked with a legitimate general manager. and Thorn knew it.

Deep down, Prokhorov's head coach pulled a power play on Thorn to run the basketball operations.

It's interesting to see Johnson want total control. He hasn't won much to dictate what a team should do. For all of his success with the Dallas Mavericks, he couldn't get the Mavericks to respond when the Heat won three straight after losing two straight to start the Finals. The Heat went on to win the Finals in 2006. The following year, the Mavericks lost to an eighth-seeded Warriors team.

The Nets hyped Johnson up this entire offseason, and now, it’s time to judge him for his body of work. It’s been three months, so it’s fair to give a verdict. It hasn’t been good at all.

After a 106-92 loss to the Sixers last night, the Nets are 15-35. Even with several losing teams contending for the last Eastern Conference playoff spots, it’s too late for them to qualify for the playoffs. It’s over. This team does not have it in them to go on a long winning streak and get that last playoff spot.

Blame the coach for what’s going on. The Nets should win at least 25 games by now with what he has to work with. He has Devin Harris and Brook Lopez. Those two should be good enough to win their fair share of games.

For whatever reason, Harris and Lopez regressed as players. Either they do not understand what the coach is saying, or the coach has not done much to make them better players.

Harris looks lost in running the offense. He’s not scoring as much as he used to. Plus, he gets hurt often.

Lopez was supposed to be one of the best big men in the league, but he hasn’t played like it. He gets outrebounded easily, and he’s slow to get to the ball. He does not have the stamina to play well in the second half.

That wasn’t the case when Lawrence Frank was coaching. Those two played at a high level under him. That’s an indictment of how Johnson is developing his players.

The Nets don’t play defense at all. In last night’s game, the Sixers had easy looks when it came to shooting. They also were able to get an offensive rebound, and scored.

A good coach is supposed to be teaching guys to play defense. After all, that’s Johnson’s alleged strength, right? Either guys are not listening or he hasn’t done a good job of teaching it.

The first-year Nets coach has not developed young players this year. Derrick Favors has been ordinary at best. Outside of blocking Jrue Holiday's shot in the first quarter, he didn’t do much in this contest. He has gotten playing time, but he has not made the most of it. One wonders if the coach puts in the work with his rookie.

Anthony Morrow, Travis Outlaw and Jordan Farmar have done nothing. Those three were fine players before they came to the Nets.

Johnson never makes adjustments in the second half, and this team comes off flat to start the second half. That was the case last night, and it ended with the Nets coach being tossed.

Give this roster to Sixers coach Doug Collins, and this team is a playoff team. Look at what he has done in Philadelphia. The Sixers have a terrible roster, but he has found a way to make it work in his first year as their coach.

Collins has his players play proper basketball. They run the motion offense well, and they defend well. Andre Iguodola, Lou Williams and Thaddeus Young developed into productive players this year. He has gotten the most out of Elton Brand.

These Sixers are receptive to coaching. The Nets are not.

It’s remarkable the national media has not marveled at the job Coillins has done this year. The Sixers have the seventh seed in the Eastern Conference. No one thought they would make the playoffs, but they likely will. This is an example of good coaching.

If Prokhorov watched the game last night at Russia, he must be wondering why Johnson can't get the same results like Collins. There is no difference between the roster between the Nets and the Sixers.

He also must be second-guessing to why he didn't call Collins when he was available.

If the Russian billionaire wonder if Johnson sold him a bill of goods, it's hard to blame him based on this year's sorry results.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/595165-johnson-failed-to-get-most-of-these-nets

I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
nykshaknbake
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2/27/2011  10:29 AM
loweyecue wrote:To everyone bashing MDA - Please explain why Avery Johnson's Nets are ranked 19th in defensive efficiency and the Knicks are 21st? Shouldn't Avery (God) Johnson have coached his team defense to top 5 levels by now?

http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/defensive-efficiency

SO we're worse at D than one of the worst teams in the league and this is MDA vindication? To all tr MDA apologists out there, what would he have to do to make you think he doesn't teach D? Be dead last in the league? COme out with a front page ad in the Post? He's been trying to tell you for 2.5 years and you're not listening to him.

loweyecue
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2/27/2011  10:39 AM
I am not trying to vindicate anyone. Before MDA was hired there were lots of people here who thought we should get Avery Johnson instead because he is would coach defense and take this team to the promised land. I am asking those people to explain (spin) the data.
TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
nykshaknbake
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2/27/2011  10:46 AM
loweyecue wrote:I am not trying to vindicate anyone. Before MDA was hired there were lots of people here who thought we should get Avery Johnson instead because he is would coach defense and take this team to the promised land. I am asking those people to explain (spin) the data.

You addressed it to all MDA bashers.

Michael6835
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2/27/2011  10:54 AM
Its not that he doesn't coach defense, it's that he is an offensive coach. He needs a defensive assistant/specialist.

those sun teams played defense, they just lost in a tough,tough western conference to some deep and strong teams. lakers/spurs.

M
loweyecue
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2/27/2011  11:00 AM
Childs2Dudley wrote:Avery Johnson is an overrated coach so I'm not sure what your point is.

Nobody ever thought he was God.

He was second on your list of coaches you wanted.
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=26636&page=1

The "god" thing was me poking fun at people, quit being so literal.

TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
Allanfan20
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2/27/2011  11:01 AM
Childs2Dudley wrote:Avery Johnson is an overrated coach so I'm not sure what your point is.

Nobody ever thought he was God.

Ohh yes they did. There were a number of people on this board and felt that it was Avery Johnson or bust.

“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
loweyecue
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2/27/2011  11:01 AM
Michael6835 wrote:Its not that he doesn't coach defense, it's that he is an offensive coach. He needs a defensive assistant/specialist.

those sun teams played defense, they just lost in a tough,tough western conference to some deep and strong teams. lakers/spurs.

I agree, but that's not what I read here from a lot of posters.

TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
CrushAlot
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2/27/2011  11:02 AM
Michael6835 wrote:Its not that he doesn't coach defense, it's that he is an offensive coach. He needs a defensive assistant/specialist.

those sun teams played defense, they just lost in a tough,tough western conference to some deep and strong teams. lakers/spurs.

I think one of the reasons he left Phoenix and wouldn't go to Chicago was because he didn't want to have to have a defensive specialist on his staff.
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nixluva
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2/27/2011  11:10 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
Michael6835 wrote:Its not that he doesn't coach defense, it's that he is an offensive coach. He needs a defensive assistant/specialist.

those sun teams played defense, they just lost in a tough,tough western conference to some deep and strong teams. lakers/spurs.

I think one of the reasons he left Phoenix and wouldn't go to Chicago was because he didn't want to have to have a defensive specialist on his staff.

What mattered more than hiring a defensive specialist is getting defensive players. You know after Mike left the Suns hired coaches that were supposed to improve the teams D and to this date that defense has never been better than what Mike produced when he was coaching. Not even last year were they statistically better on D than his teams. His biggest issues here were horrible defensive players. The guys we have just aren't that amazing defensively. You put guys like Artest on your roster and all of a sudden you can defend. We came into the season without any proven rebounders inside and we all knew that would be a problem and it has been. You can coach rebounding all day, but if your guys stink at it, it won't matter.

loweyecue
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2/27/2011  11:17 AM
Nalod wrote:I thought Skiles was god?

Him, I have no issues with. Probably one of the best coaches out there. But Skiles wasn't/ isn't available.

TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
loweyecue
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2/27/2011  11:18 AM
nykshaknbake wrote:
loweyecue wrote:I am not trying to vindicate anyone. Before MDA was hired there were lots of people here who thought we should get Avery Johnson instead because he is would coach defense and take this team to the promised land. I am asking those people to explain (spin) the data.

You addressed it to all MDA bashers.

Because there is a large degree of overlap between the two groups?

TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
BlueSeats
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2/27/2011  11:21 AM
Thibs was the guy to get. If ever there was a guy who'd proven himself as an assistant it was him, and with Knicks roots no less.

I wonder if Sloan has it in him to start over somewhere else, or if he'll return to UT now that Williams has been flushed.

nixluva
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2/27/2011  11:42 AM
BlueSeats wrote:Thibs was the guy to get. If ever there was a guy who'd proven himself as an assistant it was him, and with Knicks roots no less.

I wonder if Sloan has it in him to start over somewhere else, or if he'll return to UT now that Williams has been flushed.


Thibs is looking good, but can we at least see how he handles a playoff game, before we assume that he's the next coming. Avery had success in his career too, but when you have a load of talent it's not hard to win regular season games. His real value is yet to be determined.
BlueSeats
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2/27/2011  11:57 AM
nixluva wrote:
BlueSeats wrote:Thibs was the guy to get. If ever there was a guy who'd proven himself as an assistant it was him, and with Knicks roots no less.

I wonder if Sloan has it in him to start over somewhere else, or if he'll return to UT now that Williams has been flushed.


Thibs is looking good, but can we at least see how he handles a playoff game, before we assume that he's the next coming. Avery had success in his career too, but when you have a load of talent it's not hard to win regular season games. His real value is yet to be determined.

Never liked Avery, The Little Preacher.

Sometimes you just like a guys demeanor, focus, intent, approach. Thibs has it. I'll be very surprised if he doesn't have a long career in this league.

nykshaknbake
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2/27/2011  12:45 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/27/2011  12:45 PM
loweyecue wrote:
nykshaknbake wrote:
loweyecue wrote:I am not trying to vindicate anyone. Before MDA was hired there were lots of people here who thought we should get Avery Johnson instead because he is would coach defense and take this team to the promised land. I am asking those people to explain (spin) the data.

You addressed it to all MDA bashers.

Because there is a large degree of overlap between the two groups?


There is less than you think.
It'd be alot easier to say AJ lovers are something like that.
MDA Doesn't coach defense

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