These two guys would finish our team for this year, and give us the athleticism we desperatly need. Wilcox is good defensive player and an exceptional athlete. Great dunker and runs like a deer. Ratliff is a good rebounder and the best shot blocker in the NBA.

Thomas/Mutumbo for Ratliff and Atl 2004 #2 pick.
Frank Williams for Wilcox

We get younger, more athletic and have players with skills better suited to play with Marbury and our perimeter guys. We also get a high #2 next year (probably 30-33 range) that we can use to draft a Euro player and trade for another all star in a couple years :)

You backup with Harrington, Doleac and KVH can play some 4 as well.

It makes us a GREAT defensive team and rebounding team, with a bunch of guys that can run built around an all-star PG.

i like both deals. but at this point, i would even move kurt for a really athletic 3 with a nice upside and just slide kvh to the 4. frank for wilcox is a no-brainer but would the clips do it - they, for some reason, never make deals.

Posted by martin:

Yes and yes.

I think Alt would want Sweetney included in the first deal. They are looking to drop salary but need a little something in return.

Also, I think LAC is looking to drop Ely instead of Wilcox. Are they the same players?

No Ely has nice size but is really a younger Kurt Thomas. He's also unproven. Wilcox is unproven to be fair also, but he's a sick athlete and played VERY well when Brand was out.

I think LAL goes for it because Jaric has been disappointing at PG, and Doug Overton hasnt been good either. Kenyon Dooling, Eddie House... they have tried a lot of PGs this year and none have won the job.

As for Atl Ratliff hates being there and Kurt will probably opt out after this year. I'm not sure how long Deke is signed for. I have heard 3 years, I have heard one. None of the sights the post this stuff seem to be consistant. I think we give us a lot for Ratliff who isnt a good offensive player. Kurt and Deke is probably overpaying, but Ratliff is just such a perfect fit for our team it makes sense for us.

I also dont think this is too big a change for a team thats playing well, because our offense runs though our guards, not through the post. They would need to learn the defense, but Wilkins is about being simple in his schemes and just demanding a max effort.

I disagree... Ratliff would be the harder one because the Hawks are in such a retarded state, but the Clipps desperatly need a PG and Frank would be a nice fit for them. Wilcox is stuck behind Brand so from a roster standpoint it makes good sense from both sides.

The Ratliff deal saves the Hawks money and gives them two good frontcourt players.

As for fundamentals thats why I make this trade. With KVH, Doleac and Houston the Knicks have enough shooters. What they dont have are athletic defenders and they KVH is the only forward on the roster that can really run the floor well and finish. This gives us a better mix of players.

I like those trade ideas for Wilcox and Ratliff. They will fit in nicely with Marbury running the show. I really want this to happen.

Ya heard me, Isiah?

Clips would trade Ely before Wilcox. Wilcox is still in their plans and rotation, don't see that trade happening.

[Edited by - knick2001 on 02/03/2004 13:52:06]

Posted by djsunyc:

i like both deals. but at this point, i would even move kurt for a really athletic 3 with a nice upside and just slide kvh to the 4. frank for wilcox is a no-brainer but would the clips do it - they, for some reason, never make deals.

Kurt has to be traded for a post up player, unless one is acqured in another trade. That is the team's biggest need, and it will be even more so if they make the playoffs.

I believe our biggest weaknesses are on defense. Kurt is a reasonable defender in the post. I would like to see us acquire more post defense and shot blocking. Mutumbo blocks shots but no longer has the foot speed to be an effective one on one defender. As much as we need a post up guy I believe success in the playoffs is going to be even more determined by our defense. I'd like to keep kurt and try to add another solid defender.

I think that is too much. We should use those guys so that we get a low post player which we desperately need for the playoffs. We could get a ahtletic shot blocker for cheaper.

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 02/03/2004 18:28:04]

Wilcox has the potential to become a decent contributor. Stretched over 40mpg, he'd be averaging 16+ppg/9rpg. The nice thing about him right now is that he's shooting about 53% for his career so far.

Then again... he'd be averaging 6 fouls too. :)
His minutes have doubled from his rookie year to 2nd year so far, and his production has increased fairly proportionately.

Ely's numbers have actually taken a step back, performing worse in nearly every statistical category. I'd be very wary of him. However, as a journeyman backup center, his numbers are pretty close to the pace you're looking for. 15mpg/5ppg/4rpg are prototypical backup center numbers (see Michael Doleac).

If you want a 25 year old project who likely won't achieve much more than backup center status, Ely's your man.

Wilcox could potentially become a borderline all-star type of player. He's the guy that more teams will be interested in. What's his future in LA? Brand is cemented down at PF, Maggette & Q have the 2 wing positions covered.

Frank Williams (#25 2002) for Wilcox (#8 2002) would be a great trade. I guess by the numbers, Ely (#12 2002) is still a draft upgrade. FW looks like he might be ready to start.

However, for the Knicks' purposes, I'd love it if we could get a real player like Q-Rich.
if we could grab Jaric for FW, I'd like that too. He isn't really a pure PG, so he's sort of struggling with his role; he's more of a versatile "player" like a Brent Barry or even a Penny Hardaway-- moving into the future, his size, court savvy, and versatility would come in handy. In addition, in the international basketball scene, he's seen by most as a superior player than our never-to-be seen pal Vujanic. :)

Let's just face facts, FW doesn't have much of a future here with the Knicks other than as a trade commodity.