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3 blockbuster trades to make at the deadline.
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TLover
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2/2/2004  4:48 PM
Okay these trades may sound a bit ridiculous at this stage of the season with the Knicks in the thick of the playoff race and playing better under Lenny since the 3 hour practice. Tomarrow nights game against the Pacers will give us an indication what kind of team we have.

Here are 3 Big trades that will totally change the face of our team but can make us a better team now and into the future.

Keep in mind that all these trades work hand in hand. All 3 need to go down for it to be a complete success.

(1) Allan Houston & Kurt Thomas to Portland
for
Rasheed Wallace and Ruben Patterson

(2) Keith VanHorn, Othella Harrington, Frank Williams to Chicago
for
Jamal Crawford, Eddie Robinson, Jerome Williams, & Rick Brunson

(3) Dikembe Mutumbo & Mike Sweetney to Memphis
for
Stromile Swift, Dante Jones, Ryan Humphrey

All the trades are fair, I can give my reasoning behind each trade but I don't have time at the moment.

The knicks depth chart would be as follows:

PG: Marbury, Moochie, Brunson
SG: Crawford, Anderson, Jones
SF: Hardaway, Patterson, Robinson, Humphrey (IR)
PF: Wallace, Williams
C: Doleac, Swift, Trybanski (IR)

What I don't like is losing Houston's shooting touch, VanHorn's offensive outburts, Kurt Thomas's toughness and Mutumbo's Shotblocking. So maybe it's not such a good idea to trade these guys but I believe these trades can make this team very good this year and many years to come.
AUTOADVERT
fishmike
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2/2/2004  4:52 PM
flush
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
letitbeheard
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2/2/2004  4:55 PM
Posted by fishmike:

flush
second that.
this has gotta be a joke.

[Edited by - letitbeheard on 02/02/2004 17:02:07]
s3231
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2/2/2004  4:58 PM
Posted by letitbeheard:
Posted by fishmike:

flush
second that.
Here's number 3..
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
TheSage
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2/2/2004  5:04 PM
I am in agreement with the negative reception with which the trades were greeted. But I will explain. Yes you would have a more "athletic team" but in so doing would ahve weakened yourself at three positions and in some respects a fourth. Weakened at SG, SF and Center and lost defense and rebounding at PF. Did you ever hear of "Jumpin" Johnny Green-He was 6'5" forward who could pick quarters off the top of the backward, he would jump center against Chamberlain and win and could run the floor. Only problem for this great atlete was that his basketball skills were limited. And that is the problem with your trades-importing atletes not basketball players

[Edited by - TheSage on 02/02/2004 17:05:10]
fishmike
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2/2/2004  5:09 PM
the Knicks are short two major pieces right now. An athletic 4/5 and a low post scorer. I honestly believe in the next 2-3 years Sweetney will blossum into a good post scorer, but we need a garbage collector. A guy like Swift, Camby, Chris Anderson (my first choice just because I think he's attainable) that can dunk loose balls, get putbacks, block some shots... doesnt need to be polished, just do what they do.

Our perimeter players are excellent. Not the most athletic but still among the best in the NBA. When Houston is healthy he and Steph along with Shandon and Penny off the bench is GREAT depth and versaltility on the wing.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
letitbeheard
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2/2/2004  5:15 PM
Posted by TheSage:

I am in agreement with the negative reception with which the trades were greeted. But I will explain. Yes you would have a more "athletic team" but in so doing would ahve weakened yourself at three positions and in some respects a fourth. Weakened at SG, SF and Center and lost defense and rebounding at PF. Did you ever hear of "Jumpin" Johnny Green-He was 6'5" forward who could pick quarters off the top of the backward, he would jump center against Chamberlain and win and could run the floor. Only problem for this great atlete was that his basketball skills were limited. And that is the problem with your trades-importing atletes not basketball players

[Edited by - TheSage on 02/02/2004 17:05:10]
there are some good players that we are getting back in the trade. the problems are that:

we make too many trades which will cost us team chemistry
the fact he or she is suggesting that they have to work in success with each other is the main crapper. it makes no sense
teams are very unlikely to make, not even one of them, that trashes it.
Plus, these players could turn out to be un-fit for eachother of make a legit team.
MaTT4281
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2/2/2004  5:38 PM
The only knicks ur leaving alone from the pre-marbury/moochie trades is doleac?

I say we shouldnt try to trade for rasheed. I personally dun like him, but he's already said he would sign for the MLE. Why trade houston and kurt for patterson.

If we do try to trade for anyone, i've already mentioned my top 3 picks r Camby, Shareef, or Jamison. We dun need to tear up our entire roster on trades.
s3231
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2/2/2004  5:44 PM
Yea I don't know why he has us trading Thomas and Houston for Rasheed when Rasheed would probably sign for the MLE. This team doesn't need to rebuild, we are only 1 good bigman away from being able to go to the Finals. I would love to have Camby back, but I doubt Denver would trade him to us with the season they are having so far. If Portland continues to demand that we have to trade KVH and KT for Rasheed, then we should just leave them alone because a number of teams that want Rasheed just want to release him in the summer to save some money, so even if we have to wait till next season to be a very good team then I say we wait.
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
BigRedDog
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2/2/2004  7:12 PM
The reason this trade idea is all garbage is because there is NO WAY portland is going to take back houston in any way for sheed Don't you read the papers? Portland is going to get salary relief at end of season if sheed leaves so they win by losing him. They DON'T WANT LONG TERM SALARIES BACK(plus the fact houston can barely walk at this time).how many times do you need to hear it. Propose fair trades that make sense not this idiotic rantings.
Briggs-- Frank is 2 yrs away from being 2 years away
MaseInYourFace
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2/2/2004  7:20 PM
(3) Dikembe Mutumbo & Mike Sweetney to Memphis
for
Stromile Swift, Dante Jones, Ryan Humphrey




I wonder why the surging Grizz would be interested in a washed up Mutumbo who can barely walk up and down the court and Sweetney a rookie who has proven nothing, and hasn't even been able to get minutes competing with the decrepit mutumbo.
Posted by TLover:

Okay these trades may sound a bit ridiculous at this stage of the season with the Knicks in the thick of the playoff race and playing better under Lenny since the 3 hour practice. Tomarrow nights game against the Pacers will give us an indication what kind of team we have.

Here are 3 Big trades that will totally change the face of our team but can make us a better team now and into the future.

Keep in mind that all these trades work hand in hand. All 3 need to go down for it to be a complete success.

(1) Allan Houston & Kurt Thomas to Portland
for
Rasheed Wallace and Ruben Patterson

(2) Keith VanHorn, Othella Harrington, Frank Williams to Chicago
for
Jamal Crawford, Eddie Robinson, Jerome Williams, & Rick Brunson

(3) Dikembe Mutumbo & Mike Sweetney to Memphis
for
Stromile Swift, Dante Jones, Ryan Humphrey

All the trades are fair, I can give my reasoning behind each trade but I don't have time at the moment.

The knicks depth chart would be as follows:

PG: Marbury, Moochie, Brunson
SG: Crawford, Anderson, Jones
SF: Hardaway, Patterson, Robinson, Humphrey (IR)
PF: Wallace, Williams
C: Doleac, Swift, Trybanski (IR)

What I don't like is losing Houston's shooting touch, VanHorn's offensive outburts, Kurt Thomas's toughness and Mutumbo's Shotblocking. So maybe it's not such a good idea to trade these guys but I believe these trades can make this team very good this year and many years to come.
Yes! - Marv Albert
simrud
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2/2/2004  8:03 PM
You do realize this is not NBA Live 2004 right?
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
TLover
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2/2/2004  10:03 PM
Now that everyone gave their expert opinion, especially BigRedJackass this is something I proposed that may not be reality but will help this team become a future championship contender.
It's amazing how everyone is so content on the Knicks being a 7th or 8th Seed and get knocked out of the first round, but at least Dolan gets to make some extra bucks in his pocket.

I'm not saying that the Knicks will get knocked out in the first round but I want a Championship, not a team that just makes the playoffs.

Trade #1
Kurt Thomas after the season is a Free Agent and is not worth 8-10 million a year. Allan Houston on his last legs, mid-30's is better suited to play the 3, but I don't want to get into that discussion or else someone will have a hissy fit.
I'll tell you what Portland wouldn't mind those players for Rasheed & Ruben because they'll wait out the season and let Rasheed walk, but they still have over-paid players like Derrick Anderson and Ruben Patterson signed to untradeable contracts.
Houston's outside game to compliment Randolph's inside game would be devastating - that's what Layden wanted in the the Houston/McDyess combo.
Kurt a tough player to match up against the 4's in the West.
Still Kurt's $ comes off books - Ruben Patterson's 3 year deal stays on.

Rasheed gives us not only a low post player but an athletic big man, who can play 3, 4, or 5 and be a dominant player at all 3 positions. I'll bring him in now and utlize him in this years playoffs not next years.
Ruben a tough slasher type player we haven't had since Spree except he has the weight to play the 3.
Both players have chips on their shoulders and will be very good for us.

Trade #2
I think Jamal Crawford is going to be a superstar, why not have your backcourt set for the next 5 years. (Remember Isiah & Dumars)
Crawford is still raw but being a 3rd option in NY as opposed to being a 1st option with the Bulls will make him a much better ball player.
I like what VanHorn has done for us this year but you have to give up something to get a future star, possibly superstar.
VanHorn has 2 years left on his contract, the same as Curry and Chandler. The Bulls could see what that front line does for them in the next 2 years and if it doesn't work they would have plenty of $ to try again. VanHorn would be a perfect player in spacing the Court and letting Curry and Chandler do their work on the inside.
Frankie Williams goes back home and may form a future backcourt with Henrich, who appears to be able to play either 1 or 2.
Big fella Othella can show those young guys a hard working vet who takes nothing for granted.
And of course the Bulls rid themselves of terrible contracts of players that we can use, especially Jerome Williams who brings a Rodman type game (looks like I'm forming the old Piston team - they did win a couple of Championships)
Hopefully we can get something out of Eddie Robinson (could be a poor man's Darius Miles - that's not saying much)
Finally Rick Brunson, who is not only a filler but one of Rasheed Wallace's best friends.

Trade # 3

Memphis will trade for Mutumbo because they need to get a big man to guard guys like Shaq and Yao Ming. Not that Mutumbo can stop them but may neutralize a bit. We know the potential of Swift whom I beieve can be another Star, so that is why we have to include our own #9 pick Mike Sweetney. To make the trade work we take Dante Jones and Ryan Humphrey who are both young, on the IR and not getting any playing time. Maybe one of these players can develop into a contributor for the knicks in the future. Both also have 3 years left on 1st round contracts that Memphis may want to get rid off.


Look Isiah got the Knicks a #1 option which is not easy to find, I do think a deal or two needs to happen to give this team a real chance to go far in the playoffs.
fishmike
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2/2/2004  10:29 PM
"Now that everyone gave their expert opinion, especially BigRedJackass"

LMAO... thats all I read of this post, and all I needed to. Ahh... lifes little pleasures.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
MaTT4281
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2/3/2004  3:02 PM
TLover, can I ask you sumtin. Why are you a knicks fan. You want us to flip over our entire roster. The only conclusions I can come up wit are

1)You were a knicks fan along time ago and now feel obligated to root for this team (current roster and all)

2)you like the new york logo/colors

3)Your a fan of the management
letitbeheard
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2/3/2004  3:13 PM
Posted by TLover:

Now that everyone gave their expert opinion, especially BigRedJackass this is something I proposed that may not be reality but will help this team become a future championship contender.
It's amazing how everyone is so content on the Knicks being a 7th or 8th Seed and get knocked out of the first round, but at least Dolan gets to make some extra bucks in his pocket.

I'm not saying that the Knicks will get knocked out in the first round but I want a Championship, not a team that just makes the playoffs.

Trade #1
Kurt Thomas after the season is a Free Agent and is not worth 8-10 million a year. Allan Houston on his last legs, mid-30's is better suited to play the 3, but I don't want to get into that discussion or else someone will have a hissy fit.
I'll tell you what Portland wouldn't mind those players for Rasheed & Ruben because they'll wait out the season and let Rasheed walk, but they still have over-paid players like Derrick Anderson and Ruben Patterson signed to untradeable contracts.
Houston's outside game to compliment Randolph's inside game would be devastating - that's what Layden wanted in the the Houston/McDyess combo.
Kurt a tough player to match up against the 4's in the West.
Still Kurt's $ comes off books - Ruben Patterson's 3 year deal stays on.

Rasheed gives us not only a low post player but an athletic big man, who can play 3, 4, or 5 and be a dominant player at all 3 positions. I'll bring him in now and utlize him in this years playoffs not next years.
Ruben a tough slasher type player we haven't had since Spree except he has the weight to play the 3.
Both players have chips on their shoulders and will be very good for us.

Trade #2
I think Jamal Crawford is going to be a superstar, why not have your backcourt set for the next 5 years. (Remember Isiah & Dumars)
Crawford is still raw but being a 3rd option in NY as opposed to being a 1st option with the Bulls will make him a much better ball player.
I like what VanHorn has done for us this year but you have to give up something to get a future star, possibly superstar.
VanHorn has 2 years left on his contract, the same as Curry and Chandler. The Bulls could see what that front line does for them in the next 2 years and if it doesn't work they would have plenty of $ to try again. VanHorn would be a perfect player in spacing the Court and letting Curry and Chandler do their work on the inside.
Frankie Williams goes back home and may form a future backcourt with Henrich, who appears to be able to play either 1 or 2.
Big fella Othella can show those young guys a hard working vet who takes nothing for granted.
And of course the Bulls rid themselves of terrible contracts of players that we can use, especially Jerome Williams who brings a Rodman type game (looks like I'm forming the old Piston team - they did win a couple of Championships)
Hopefully we can get something out of Eddie Robinson (could be a poor man's Darius Miles - that's not saying much)
Finally Rick Brunson, who is not only a filler but one of Rasheed Wallace's best friends.

Trade # 3

Memphis will trade for Mutumbo because they need to get a big man to guard guys like Shaq and Yao Ming. Not that Mutumbo can stop them but may neutralize a bit. We know the potential of Swift whom I beieve can be another Star, so that is why we have to include our own #9 pick Mike Sweetney. To make the trade work we take Dante Jones and Ryan Humphrey who are both young, on the IR and not getting any playing time. Maybe one of these players can develop into a contributor for the knicks in the future. Both also have 3 years left on 1st round contracts that Memphis may want to get rid off.


Look Isiah got the Knicks a #1 option which is not easy to find, I do think a deal or two needs to happen to give this team a real chance to go far in the playoffs.
good stuff guy. keep working at it. i'm sure your trade expertise will be accepted some day! I think you'll make good gm someday, but just keep working on it though!
TLover
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2/3/2004  9:13 PM
Matt to respond to you: I was born a Knick fan and always will be,
The Knick logo is cool, and I can't stomach the ownership. I admit I made a mistake that all these trades need to be made at the same time, but at some point in time all these trades make sense. I will rescind the Houston/Thomas for Wallace/Patterson trade. Hopefully we can sign Wallace for the MLE. I'll replace that trade with Kurt Thomas, Sweetney or Frank Williams for Al Harrington and Kenny Anderson (Bring Kenny back to NY).
MaTT4281
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2/3/2004  10:22 PM
Posted by TLover:

Matt to respond to you: I was born a Knick fan and always will be,
The Knick logo is cool, and I can't stomach the ownership. I admit I made a mistake that all these trades need to be made at the same time, but at some point in time all these trades make sense. I will rescind the Houston/Thomas for Wallace/Patterson trade. Hopefully we can sign Wallace for the MLE. I'll replace that trade with Kurt Thomas, Sweetney or Frank Williams for Al Harrington and Kenny Anderson (Bring Kenny back to NY).

Good Answer
BigRedDog
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2/4/2004  2:12 PM
Posted by TLover:

Now that everyone gave their expert opinion, especially BigRedJackass this is something I proposed that may not be reality but will help this team become a future championship contender.
It's amazing how everyone is so content on the Knicks being a 7th or 8th Seed and get knocked out of the first round, but at least Dolan gets to make some extra bucks in his pocket.

Look Bozo the only thing that you say that makes sense is that you're not dealing in reality. you are like these dorks on WFAN that propose trading Mo Vaughn for Bonds. IT AIN'T HAPPENING. We are not content to be a 7th seed and I DO think the Knicks need to make more trades BUT be realistic, Portland Doesn't want a 32 yr old player with 4yrs left on a contract making max money. No matter how many ways you rewrite why they should do it,IT AIN'T HAPPENING.Propose trades that make sense for BOTH teams.

Briggs-- Frank is 2 yrs away from being 2 years away
simrud
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2/4/2004  4:22 PM
Don't pay to much attention to this guy he thinks the NBA is like a Playstation baksetball game.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
3 blockbuster trades to make at the deadline.

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