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History Repeats Itself: The Carmelo McAdoo Trade
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misterearl
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2/22/2011  9:16 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/22/2011  9:22 PM
Trading for a Scorer Doesn’t Always Work

A midseason trade of an chosen scorer (at 24 points per game) in the prime of his career (age 26 or younger), most similar to Carmelo Anthony would be?

Bob McAdoo.

McAdoo's tenure in Buffalo ended in 1976 when the team, unwilling to pay him a market value contract and fearful of losing him for nothing when he became a free agent, dealt him to the New York Knicks. The Buffalo Braves center-forward averaged 28.2 was barely 2 months past his 25th birthday when he joined the Knicks. McAdoo, a NBA MVP — joined a Knicks group which was 11-13 underneath Hall of Fame coach Red Holtzman. Guards Walt Frazier and Earl Monroe were in their early 30s. Yet post-trade, a Knicks hardly improved—finishing 40-42 and failed to make the playoffs.

McAdoo received unwarranted criticism when the Knicks--a hodgepodge collection of players haphazardly thrown together - failed to recapture past glory. While McAdoo remained a prolific scorer (26 ppg), his poor defense drew the groans of the Garden faithful. New York gave up a league-worst average of 114 points to opponents in McAdoo’s a single full Knicks season.
McAdoo's time as a Knick tends to be overlooked, but during this period he averaged 26.7 ppg--which still ranks first in franchise history--and became the youngest player in NBA history to score 10,000 career points (Kobe Bryant broke this record in 2002-03). McAdoo struggled to mesh with the other high-scoring All-Star forward, Spencer Haywood.

Fast forward to 2011.

Carmelo Anthony brings an identical 25 point average, along with a vulnerability on defense.

The Knicks sent McAdoo to the Boston Celtics during the 1977-78 season for three 1979 first-round draft choices and a player to be named later.

once a knick always a knick
AUTOADVERT
firefly
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2/22/2011  9:19 PM
Seriously man, quit the whinging. We know, Chandlers gone. Get over it.


Whos got Amare?

Whos got Melo?

Whos got Billups?

Earl pwnage.

Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream things that never were and ask why not?
foosballnick
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2/22/2011  9:20 PM
When you pull an article or blog post from the web you should quote it's source.
nychamp
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2/22/2011  9:21 PM
Not really a comparable situation. Nice try.
firefly
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2/22/2011  9:21 PM
Episode rewrite.

Fast forward to 2012.

Earl has a new favourite.

BRIGGS is on his 97th new best-player-in-the-NBA-we-must-get-him-or-we-will-sck-he-is-8"3-900pd-raw-athleticism of the week.

Rinse, repeat.

Hey, I could get used to posting like Earl!

Whos got Melo?

Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream things that never were and ask why not?
misterearl
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2/22/2011  9:23 PM
foosballnick - good point

http://20secondtimeout.blogspot.com/2010/01/bob-mcadoo-reconsidered.html

once a knick always a knick
misterearl
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2/22/2011  9:36 PM
"If you don't know history, it is as if you were born yesterday."
— Howard Zinn

firefly - you can protest all you want, but the parallels are undeniable.

I sincerely hope that The Answer Man is wrong this time.

once a knick always a knick
JrZyHuStLa
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2/22/2011  9:41 PM
You're living in the past, but no surprise there. Seems like you can't make a post without mentioning Bernard King, Frazier, or Earl Monroe.
firefly
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2/22/2011  9:42 PM
misterearl wrote:"If you don't know history, it is as if you were born yesterday."
— Howard Zinn

firefly - you can protest all you want, but the parallels are undeniable.

I sincerely hope that The Answer Man is wrong this time.

"The only thing neccessary for schmucks to proliferate is for good men to do nothing"
- Edmund "Firefly" Burke

For an Answer Man you dont answer much.

I see no parallels. Just an angry fan who cant get over the loss of his favourite player. Fine. Mourn. Pound the floor. Issue forth a multitude of posts about how much you loved and will miss Chandler and Galinari. But dont invent BS so you can expand your apocalyptic view of the future. We didnt trade for Glenn Robinson. Or Jerry Stackhouse. Even the people who hate this trade admit that Melo is at worst a top 10 player in the league. A league I might add that is stunningly different to the one that Bob McAdoo played in all those centuries ago. Back then Kobe would have been playing PF and LeBron would have been a center.

Once again I ask you, Monsiour Le Answer Man, O answerer of all men, Whos got Melo?

Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream things that never were and ask why not?
orangeblobman
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Nauru
2/22/2011  9:43 PM
Casual observers and young people are blinded by the glamor of this deal. A shiny new 'superstar', Carmelo Anthony, here to drop the buckets.

But the situation is deeper than that. Winning is about chemistry, it's about how well pieces fit together. The Knicks right now are a flashy cluster ****.

A Ferrari with a Yugo engine.

WE AIN'T NOWHERE WITH THIS BUM CHOKER IN CARMELO. GIVE ME STARKS'S 2-21 ANY DAY OVER THIS LACKLUSTER CLUSTEREFF.
loweyecue
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2/22/2011  10:06 PM
misterearl wrote:Trading for a Scorer Doesn’t Always Work

A midseason trade of an chosen scorer (at 24 points per game) in the prime of his career (age 26 or younger), most similar to Carmelo Anthony would be?

Bob McAdoo.

McAdoo's tenure in Buffalo ended in 1976 when the team, unwilling to pay him a market value contract and fearful of losing him for nothing when he became a free agent, dealt him to the New York Knicks. The Buffalo Braves center-forward averaged 28.2 was barely 2 months past his 25th birthday when he joined the Knicks. McAdoo, a NBA MVP — joined a Knicks group which was 11-13 underneath Hall of Fame coach Red Holtzman. Guards Walt Frazier and Earl Monroe were in their early 30s. Yet post-trade, a Knicks hardly improved—finishing 40-42 and failed to make the playoffs.

McAdoo received unwarranted criticism when the Knicks--a hodgepodge collection of players haphazardly thrown together - failed to recapture past glory. While McAdoo remained a prolific scorer (26 ppg), his poor defense drew the groans of the Garden faithful. New York gave up a league-worst average of 114 points to opponents in McAdoo’s a single full Knicks season.
McAdoo's time as a Knick tends to be overlooked, but during this period he averaged 26.7 ppg--which still ranks first in franchise history--and became the youngest player in NBA history to score 10,000 career points (Kobe Bryant broke this record in 2002-03). McAdoo struggled to mesh with the other high-scoring All-Star forward, Spencer Haywood.

Fast forward to 2011.

Carmelo Anthony brings an identical 25 point average, along with a vulnerability on defense.

The Knicks sent McAdoo to the Boston Celtics during the 1977-78 season for three 1979 first-round draft choices and a player to be named later.

Did the answer man lose his crystal spalding basketball in his way back machine? Look forward my man, the past is kinda ovaah!

TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
scoshin
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2/22/2011  10:12 PM
orangeblobman wrote:Casual observers and young people are blinded by the glamor of this deal. A shiny new 'superstar', Carmelo Anthony, here to drop the buckets.

But the situation is deeper than that. Winning is about chemistry, it's about how well pieces fit together. The Knicks right now are a flashy cluster ****.

A Ferrari with a Yugo engine.

You and others fluffed our 28-26 team way too much, especially considering Amar'e was a huge factor to our success this season (Ray too, hate to see him go).

The fact is, we improved in talent tremendously, and for the first time since I've been a Knick fan, have two dominant stars on the same team. Will their games mesh? I can't say, but the way some of you are already writing it off before we even see Melo and Amar'e play together for even one single game is just as hypocritical as those splooging over the deal.
misterearl
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2/22/2011  10:12 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/22/2011  10:13 PM
The Future Is So Bright The Answer Man Gotta Wear Shades

firefly: "But dont invent BS so you can expand your apocalyptic view of the future."

What was invented?

Invent this - "In trading Gallinari and Chandler, the Knicks also lost 3-point shooting."

The reference to the McAdoo trade was real.

"apocalyptic view of the future..."

C'mon firefly, isn't apocalyptic view of the future a bit over the top?

It's only basketball.

once a knick always a knick
firefly
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2/22/2011  10:17 PM
misterearl wrote:The Future Is So Bright The Answer Man Gotta Wear Shades

firefly: "But dont invent BS so you can expand your apocalyptic view of the future."

What was invented?

Invent this - "In trading Gallinari and Chandler, the Knicks also lost 3-point shooting."

The reference to the McAdoo trade was real.

"apocalyptic view of the future..."

C'mon firefly, isn't apocalyptic view of the future a bit over the top?

It's only basketball.

Eh, possibly a little OTT But youre trying to make out like adding Anthony will add no wins and will result in us trading him asap for Jorome James and some Cheetos. This isnt your dads NBA. And we may have lost 3 point shooting, but we still have plenty to go around in Billups, Williams, Walker, Anthony and Carter.

Maybe the Answer Man needs to check the prescription on his shades, cuz things can get a little blurry when you crane your neck looking backwards all the time.

Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream things that never were and ask why not?
nixluva
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2/22/2011  10:18 PM
orangeblobman wrote:Casual observers and young people are blinded by the glamor of this deal. A shiny new 'superstar', Carmelo Anthony, here to drop the buckets.

But the situation is deeper than that. Winning is about chemistry, it's about how well pieces fit together. The Knicks right now are a flashy cluster ****.

A Ferrari with a Yugo engine.


Why do you think these pieces don't fit? How does Melo not fit into this team when he'll be a dominant component? It's not like he's gonna be a 3rd or 4th option. Our role players are the ones that have to adjust and all that means is be ready to shoot if the ball is passed to you. He's gonna be 1 or 1A. He and STAT will be the top options and one will always be on the floor to make sure we have a focal point at all times. That's a good benefit to having more than one superstar. We could never do that and you saw how our offense would suffer. Mike was forced to bring Amar'e back early just to keep the team from losing leads or falling too far behind. We actually added another backup PG too, which goes unmentioned. He's not great but he's got experience. We also added a rebounder that has a better rate of rebounding than anyone we lost. Shelden may not do much, but he CAN REBOUND. That's a need that we had.
Cash
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2/22/2011  10:24 PM
Chandler is not a player we will miss...he may be buff as hell but he is not a smart player and we were never going to resign him anyway! Gallo is another problem but he is no melo.
JesseDark
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2/22/2011  10:36 PM
misterearl wrote:Trading for a Scorer Doesn’t Always Work

A midseason trade of an chosen scorer (at 24 points per game) in the prime of his career (age 26 or younger), most similar to Carmelo Anthony would be?

Bob McAdoo.

McAdoo's tenure in Buffalo ended in 1976 when the team, unwilling to pay him a market value contract and fearful of losing him for nothing when he became a free agent, dealt him to the New York Knicks. The Buffalo Braves center-forward averaged 28.2 was barely 2 months past his 25th birthday when he joined the Knicks. McAdoo, a NBA MVP — joined a Knicks group which was 11-13 underneath Hall of Fame coach Red Holtzman. Guards Walt Frazier and Earl Monroe were in their early 30s. Yet post-trade, a Knicks hardly improved—finishing 40-42 and failed to make the playoffs.

McAdoo received unwarranted criticism when the Knicks--a hodgepodge collection of players haphazardly thrown together - failed to recapture past glory. While McAdoo remained a prolific scorer (26 ppg), his poor defense drew the groans of the Garden faithful. New York gave up a league-worst average of 114 points to opponents in McAdoo’s a single full Knicks season.
McAdoo's time as a Knick tends to be overlooked, but during this period he averaged 26.7 ppg--which still ranks first in franchise history--and became the youngest player in NBA history to score 10,000 career points (Kobe Bryant broke this record in 2002-03). McAdoo struggled to mesh with the other high-scoring All-Star forward, Spencer Haywood.

Fast forward to 2011.

Carmelo Anthony brings an identical 25 point average, along with a vulnerability on defense.

The Knicks sent McAdoo to the Boston Celtics during the 1977-78 season for three 1979 first-round draft choices and a player to be named later.

Those 3 first rounders for 20... Glen Gondrizick Toby Knight and Ray Williams

Bring back dee-fense
BlueSeats
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2/22/2011  10:50 PM
misterearl wrote:when he joined the Knicks. McAdoo, a NBA MVP — joined a Knicks group which was 11-13 underneath Hall of Fame coach Red Holtzman. Guards Walt Frazier and Earl Monroe were in their early 30s. Yet post-trade, a Knicks hardly improved—finishing 40-42 and failed to make the playoffs.

McAdoo received unwarranted criticism when the Knicks--a hodgepodge collection of players haphazardly thrown together - failed to recapture past glory.

One can't say McAdoo worked out to expectations but they were better with him than immediately before or after. And they love to name drop Frazier and Holtzman but that was when Clyde was traded to Cleveland and Reed was coaching. The Knicks were cooked and in need of a rebuild. Not a good time to be retooling.
CrushAlot
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2/22/2011  10:54 PM
orangeblobman wrote:Casual observers and young people are blinded by the glamor of this deal. A shiny new 'superstar', Carmelo Anthony, here to drop the buckets.

But the situation is deeper than that. Winning is about chemistry, it's about how well pieces fit together. The Knicks right now are a flashy cluster ****.

A Ferrari with a Yugo engine.


I agree. I have been getting calls from friends that are casual fans telling me how excited they are. The Knicks had a team that fought, and won together. They were very young and talented. They gave all of that up for a guy that was coming here anyway.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
nixluva
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2/23/2011  12:23 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
orangeblobman wrote:Casual observers and young people are blinded by the glamor of this deal. A shiny new 'superstar', Carmelo Anthony, here to drop the buckets.

But the situation is deeper than that. Winning is about chemistry, it's about how well pieces fit together. The Knicks right now are a flashy cluster ****.

A Ferrari with a Yugo engine.


I agree. I have been getting calls from friends that are casual fans telling me how excited they are. The Knicks had a team that fought, and won together. They were very young and talented. They gave all of that up for a guy that was coming here anyway.

Gave all of what up? We weren't keeping Chandler so cross him out. Gallo would've been nice to keep, but he had to go in order to get Melo locked up. I liked the promise of Timo, but he was years away. Felton is replaced by Billups. Who cares about AR and Curry. I think it would've been nice to still have Timo, but other than that we had to include Gallo. He's the only real LOSS. We basically lost Gallo and Timo for Melo. We replaced our scrubs for new scrubs. IT's all good.
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