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Rich
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2/2/2004  12:18 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/02/sports/basketball/02KNIC.html

February 2, 2004
Knicks' Williams Isn't Happy Sitting
By LIZ ROBBINS

Stephon Marbury is playing so well lately, he could be auditioning for a trip to Los Angeles, where he says he believes he should make the All-Star scene in two weeks. Keith Van Horn is performing like the player his maximum-value contract says he is.

Marbury and Van Horn are easing most of the Knicks' worries with Allan Houston expected to miss another five games.

The Knicks (22-27) appear to be steadying themselves just in time for tomorrow's game against the Pacers, the team with the best record in the Eastern Conference, at 35-13, and the team that fired Isiah Thomas in August.

Yet there is still a current of unrest running through the locker room, coming from some of the players brought in by Thomas's predecessor, Scott Layden. They are frustrated with how the new coach, Lenny Wilkens, and Thomas are communicating their roles.

First, Shandon Anderson was upset. Now, Frank Williams is uncharacteristically angry. Williams, a second-year point guard who is out of the rotation, stopped just short of demanding a trade.

"I just think it's probably a time for an explanation for what's going on," Williams said after he did not play in the Knicks' 110-105 victory over Phoenix on Saturday night. "If no one's talking to you, you never know what's going on, you have no idea. You would like to know something."

Williams said he planned to go to the gym yesterday to work out and to speak to Wilkens or Thomas. "Yeah, I wish something would happen," he said. "I wish something would happen real soon."

When the Knicks were in Atlanta on Jan. 23, Wilkens said he would be inclined to play Williams more as a backup. But the last week, Moochie Norris and even Penny Hardaway supplanted Williams as a backup point guard.

Williams has not played in three of the nine games Wilkens has coached with the Knicks, and that includes only five minutes during garbage time in the rout of Boston on Friday.

"You just got to get confidence in your coaches," Williams said. "You got to get them confident to put you out on the floor. Maybe he hasn't reached it yet. Another could be he likes veterans, you never know."

Asked if he believed he was being cast aside because he was part of Layden's era, Williams shrugged.

"You never know what's working against you," he said. "You just have to go with what goes on. Move on or stay."

Referring to the six weeks since Thomas took over, Williams said: "It's business, everybody knows that now. It's changed, it's changed a lot. Nobody knows."

Antonio McDyess said he had sensed the same thing just before the Knicks traded him to Phoenix. "Nobody was talking to me; Isiah didn't say one word to me," McDyess said before he came to town with the Suns.

Even after trading Howard Eisley and Charlie Ward to the Suns, Thomas still had a surplus of point guards because he had acquired Norris in a trade with Houston.

Thomas is inclined to trade Williams, according to several officials in the league. He offered Williams earlier last month as part of a package deal to Cleveland for Darius Miles that was rejected.

In his first week as president, Thomas complimented Williams, comparing him to Walt Frazier. Williams started three straight games, averaging 13.3 points, before straining his groin. He has not scored more than 7 points since Marbury and Hardaway joined the team on Jan. 6.

"That's the thing about being young, you have to wait your turn," Anderson said.

Anderson, as an eight-year veteran and a proven role player, had more weight behind his complaints over playing time. He learned second-hand that Thomas wanted to place him on injured reserve, even though he was not injured, but Anderson said he would respond professionally.

He started the last two games in place of Houston. "If you get another chance, by some freak incident," Anderson said, "you got to be ready to play."

Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company
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simrud
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2/2/2004  12:30 AM
FW is a second year player who has proven nothing, he has no right to complain about playing time. If he wants to play over Norris then he must go out and dominate him in practice. Norris had a very good game against the Suns, everybody knows what he can do. FW must prove he can do more. It's that simple. Going out to the medai and crying is a sign of great immaturity. If you want to you go and talk to the coach and GM, not tell the media you are going to do that and then maybe do it. This is ludcrous, role players complaining about playing time (Anderson too). Just shows how loose Chaney was, he got this guys used to being able to walk all over the coach and GM. Now we have real management and they are all crying like little babies. Give me a break, go out and prove you are better, its that simple, especially considering Lenny is known for evaluating based on play not anything else. Just look at him playing Doleac much more, he obviosly knows whom to play how much.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
gunsnewing
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2/2/2004  12:35 AM
he proved himself time and time again and would be playing if Isiah wasn't so busy trying to trade that bum Moochie.
djsunyc
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2/2/2004  1:57 AM
Posted by simrud:

FW is a second year player who has proven nothing, he has no right to complain about playing time. If he wants to play over Norris then he must go out and dominate him in practice. Norris had a very good game against the Suns, everybody knows what he can do. FW must prove he can do more. It's that simple. Going out to the medai and crying is a sign of great immaturity. If you want to you go and talk to the coach and GM, not tell the media you are going to do that and then maybe do it. This is ludcrous, role players complaining about playing time (Anderson too). Just shows how loose Chaney was, he got this guys used to being able to walk all over the coach and GM. Now we have real management and they are all crying like little babies. Give me a break, go out and prove you are better, its that simple, especially considering Lenny is known for evaluating based on play not anything else. Just look at him playing Doleac much more, he obviosly knows whom to play how much.

i don't know about that. he went from a rookie getting no minutes to a player that came to campe 15-20 lbs lighter, started the season as third string, worked his way to starter (while isiah was here), led his team to a couple of blowout victories and then got hurt at the wrong time. then moochie came to town followed by marbury and now frank is buried on the bench. i think someone has to tell him something - that's a wicked emotional roller coaster to go on. i don't understand why moochie gets any sort of pt, all that time should go to frank.
Rich
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2/2/2004  2:50 AM
http://www.nypost.com/sports/knicks/15925.htm

WILLIAMS WANTS TO KNOW WHY

By MARC BERMAN

February 2, 2004 -- A fuming Frank Williams wants answers. Or he wants out.

Williams, Scott Layden's 2002 first-round choice, is out of Lenny Wilkens' rotation again. Erratic Moochie Norris, whom Isiah Thomas obtained in the Clarence Weatherspoon trade, is back in.

After Saturday's victory over the Suns, Williams looked glassy-eyed as he spoke about the turn of events since Don Chaney. Williams vowed he'd speak to Wilkens yesterday. "It's time for explanation on what's going on," Williams said. "If no one's talking to you, you have no idea what's going on. You would like to know something."

When the mention of a trade was raised, Williams said, "I wish something would happen real soon."

Unless Thomas knows he's dealing Williams by the Feb. 19 trading deadline, the decision to play Norris ahead of Williams is misguided. But it's consistent with an undercurrent that Isiah wants nothing to do with anyone Layden drafted or traded for.

Before the Jan. 23 game in Atlanta, Wilkens said he wanted to give Williams a look, impressed by his practices. But that look lasted three games. In the romp in Boston Friday, Williams was banished to five minutes of fourth-quarter garbage time, then got a DNP vs. the Suns Saturday.

"You've just got to get confidence in your coaches," Williams said. "Maybe he hasn't reached it yet. Maybe he likes players he already knows. The same thing happened to Shandon [Anderson]."






Rich
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2/2/2004  5:00 AM
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/story/160537p-140807c.html

Frankly, Williams
feels the pinch

Marbury arrival changes his role

By FRANK ISOLA
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

A frustrated Frank Williams wants to meet with Isiah Thomas and Lenny Wilkens about his vanishing role and the second-year point guard, whose name has been linked to several trade proposals, added that he is prepared to "move or stay."

"I wish something would happen," he said, his voice cracking at times during the interview. "I wish something would happen real soon."

Williams lost his starting job to Stephon Marbury, which was to be expected. But Williams isn't even the backup anymore, replaced instead by Moochie Norris.

"It's changed," Williams said of his role. "It's changed a lot."

Just last month, Williams was named the starting point guard, but after three games he suffered a strained groin and missed the next five games. During that eight-game stretch, Thomas acquired both Norris and Marbury.

Wilkens' arrival has had an even greater impact on Williams' minutes. Over the last nine games, Williams has recorded three DNPs, including one in Saturday's win over Phoenix. Last week, Wilkens said he was ready to give Williams a chance to prove himself and in three successive games Williams played 12, 22 and 12 minutes against the Hawks, Heat and Spurs, respectively. But on Friday, Williams played five minutes of garbage time against Boston and the following night he couldn't get off the bench against the Suns.

"I don't think (three games is) enough for anyone to form an opinion on anyone," Williams said. "At least take a week or so to get to know the person."

After having his rookie season stifled by a wrist injury and conditioning problems, Williams performed well in November and December - he posted a career-high 18 points on Dec. 26 and matched it three days later - and felt that he had at least earned a spot in the rotation.

"Opinions are wrong sometimes," he said. "You've just got to get confidence in your coaches. You've got to give them confidence to put you out there on the floor and maybe he hasn't reached it yet. That could be one thing. But another could be he likes veterans. He likes playing guys who he already knows."

Williams believes that some of the confusion over his role can be attributed to a lack of communication between himself, the front office and the coaching staff. Former Knick Antonio McDyess and most recently Shandon Anderson also expressed similar complaints about Thomas' management style.

Of course, McDyess, Anderson and Williams also have something else in common. All three were brought to the Knicks by Scott Layden, the former team president, and Thomas has already demonstrated that he is prepared to sever ties with most, if not all, of Layden's players.

"Who knows, man, I don't know," Williams said."You'd like to know something."

Originally published on February 2, 2004



playa2
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2/2/2004  7:42 AM
In his first week as president, Thomas complimented Williams, comparing him to Walt Frazier. Williams started three straight games, averaging 13.3 points, before straining his groin. He has not scored more than 7 points since Marbury and Hardaway joined the team on Jan. 6.

Zeke is a liar and a snake oil salesman. He wants Layden guys off the team so bad that he will keep guys in the dark it's pathetic, then he had to hire Lenny a puppet for a coach. This guy is giving us fools gold and some of y'all are broke. Damn!
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
spreeeewell
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2/2/2004  11:07 AM
Posted by simrud:

FW is a second year player who has proven nothing, he has no right to complain about playing time. If he wants to play over Norris then he must go out and dominate him in practice. Norris had a very good game against the Suns, everybody knows what he can do. FW must prove he can do more. It's that simple. Going out to the medai and crying is a sign of great immaturity. If you want to you go and talk to the coach and GM, not tell the media you are going to do that and then maybe do it. This is ludcrous, role players complaining about playing time (Anderson too). Just shows how loose Chaney was, he got this guys used to being able to walk all over the coach and GM. Now we have real management and they are all crying like little babies. Give me a break, go out and prove you are better, its that simple, especially considering Lenny is known for evaluating based on play not anything else. Just look at him playing Doleac much more, he obviosly knows whom to play how much.
I agree with you 100%...right on the money..
I'd rather die on my feet, than live on my knees!
simrud
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2/2/2004  11:08 AM
I'm with you playa, how dares Thomas to get rid of the awesome players Layden has brought in here, our hall of fame and 50 greatest bound supestars. Letting go of Fatspoon and Eisly alone should have gotten him fired. That lying bastard! How can he possibly tell not tell his players he will be trading them sometime soon and that they shoudk keep playing! It is truly dishonorable to the entire Knick organization how Thomas is conducting himself as if this team was in need of major overhaul when before him we were a titelbound heavyweight.

A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
martin
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2/2/2004  11:09 AM
the strange thing is all Williams has to do is ask Wilkens a 6 word question: "Coach, why am I not playing?" And then all his questions would be answered. Instead, the newspaper.

Why would anyone sit and fret on the bench? Small sign of immuturity.
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bigblitz2001
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2/2/2004  12:18 PM
Posted by simrud:

FW is a second year player who has proven nothing, he has no right to complain about playing time. If he wants to play over Norris then he must go out and dominate him in practice. Norris had a very good game against the Suns, everybody knows what he can do. FW must prove he can do more. It's that simple. Going out to the medai and crying is a sign of great immaturity. If you want to you go and talk to the coach and GM, not tell the media you are going to do that and then maybe do it. This is ludcrous, role players complaining about playing time (Anderson too). Just shows how loose Chaney was, he got this guys used to being able to walk all over the coach and GM. Now we have real management and they are all crying like little babies. Give me a break, go out and prove you are better, its that simple, especially considering Lenny is known for evaluating based on play not anything else. Just look at him playing Doleac much more, he obviosly knows whom to play how much.

I couldnt have said it better myself. If the only thing the media and knick fans have to complain about is who is getting the 8 minutes worth of backup PG duty than I am very happy with Isiah and Lenny's short time here. ITS 8 MINUTES who cares.
djsunyc
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2/2/2004  12:41 PM
Posted by bigblitz2001:
Posted by simrud:

FW is a second year player who has proven nothing, he has no right to complain about playing time. If he wants to play over Norris then he must go out and dominate him in practice. Norris had a very good game against the Suns, everybody knows what he can do. FW must prove he can do more. It's that simple. Going out to the medai and crying is a sign of great immaturity. If you want to you go and talk to the coach and GM, not tell the media you are going to do that and then maybe do it. This is ludcrous, role players complaining about playing time (Anderson too). Just shows how loose Chaney was, he got this guys used to being able to walk all over the coach and GM. Now we have real management and they are all crying like little babies. Give me a break, go out and prove you are better, its that simple, especially considering Lenny is known for evaluating based on play not anything else. Just look at him playing Doleac much more, he obviosly knows whom to play how much.

I couldnt have said it better myself. If the only thing the media and knick fans have to complain about is who is getting the 8 minutes worth of backup PG duty than I am very happy with Isiah and Lenny's short time here. ITS 8 MINUTES who cares.

i can't speak for anyone else, but for me, it was partially for sentimental reasons why i would like to see frank as the main backup. it's only 8 minutes - that's true, but frank was riding the pine behind 2 pg's that he's better than. worked hard in the offseason, and EARNED his way to being starter. then the rug was pulled under him. ok, in the grand scheme of things, it may not be THAT important, but i would like to see moochie benched completely and frank handling the backup duties. it's pretty clear to see that when moochie is in the game, nothing happens on offense.
playa2
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2/2/2004  3:59 PM
Posted by martin:

the strange thing is all Williams has to do is ask Wilkens a 6 word question: "Coach, why am I not playing?" And then all his questions would be answered. Instead, the newspaper.

Why would anyone sit and fret on the bench? Small sign of immuturity.

As a second yr guy it's hard to get up in a seasoned veteran coach and ask him why, you would expect them to come to you. It could easily be taken the rong way when a 2nd yr promising pg comes to the coach and ask thre reason why , when a 8 yr vet Anderson wouldn't even do it.
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
playa2
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2/2/2004  4:02 PM
Posted by simrud:

I'm with you playa, how dares Thomas to get rid of the awesome players Layden has brought in here, our hall of fame and 50 greatest bound supestars. Letting go of Fatspoon and Eisly alone should have gotten him fired. That lying bastard! How can he possibly tell not tell his players he will be trading them sometime soon and that they shoudk keep playing! It is truly dishonorable to the entire Knick organization how Thomas is conducting himself as if this team was in need of major overhaul when before him we were a titelbound heavyweight.



Simmy, nobody ever said the players were awesome who Layden picked up, #2 When Zeke gets a low post stud to go along with wonderboy then I will get excited until then FUGETABOUTIT
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
simrud
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2/2/2004  4:34 PM
Its not easy to get a lowpost stud. How many teams in the East have one? There is Reef and O'Neal and thats it. We have to hope Sheed signs with us for the exception in the summer. But you know the odds of an NBA player taking less money unless its a guy who is in his late 30's still w/out a title. I'm just saying that getting Steph was great no matter what we gave up and that getting rid of Laydumbs players is a good idea. Its like West players, you know they are good cause he picked them, same with Layden's players, you know they are bad cause he picked them. There are exceptions, I for one agree that FW is a good pick, but he must outplay Norris and so far he hasnt done it. Norris had a very good game against the Suns.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
s3231
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2/2/2004  5:21 PM
Posted by simrud:

FW is a second year player who has proven nothing, he has no right to complain about playing time. If he wants to play over Norris then he must go out and dominate him in practice. Norris had a very good game against the Suns, everybody knows what he can do. FW must prove he can do more. It's that simple. Going out to the medai and crying is a sign of great immaturity. If you want to you go and talk to the coach and GM, not tell the media you are going to do that and then maybe do it. This is ludcrous, role players complaining about playing time (Anderson too). Just shows how loose Chaney was, he got this guys used to being able to walk all over the coach and GM. Now we have real management and they are all crying like little babies. Give me a break, go out and prove you are better, its that simple, especially considering Lenny is known for evaluating based on play not anything else. Just look at him playing Doleac much more, he obviosly knows whom to play how much.
Hasn't proven anything? This guy came into camp lighter and as the third-string point guard. Two months later he was the starting point guard and in the three games he started the Knicks were 3-0. All 3 games were blowouts too. Williams deserves to be the Knicks backup PG, he did everything that he was asked to do and more. He got injured at the worst time and now he has to pay for it by sitting on the bench? Frankie definitely deserves to be the backup over Moochie Norris.
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
Rich
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2/3/2004  2:57 AM
http://www.nypost.com/sports/knicks/45454.htm

. . .

Disgruntled point guard Frank Williams met with Lenny Wilkens yesterday about his out-of-rotation status before being sent home, mysteriously, with a sinus infection. Wilkens gave no indication he's ready to lift Williams over Moochie Norris, who he believes is a better "ball handler."
playa2
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2/3/2004  7:06 AM
Posted by martin:

the strange thing is all Williams has to do is ask Wilkens a 6 word question: "Coach, why am I not playing?" And then all his questions would be answered. Instead, the newspaper.

Why would anyone sit and fret on the bench? Small sign of immuturity.

Martin this is what happens when you ask why to knicks brass:


Disgruntled point guard Frank Williams met with Lenny Wilkens yesterday about his out-of-rotation status before being sent home, mysteriously, with a sinus infection. Wilkens gave no indication he's ready to lift Williams over Moochie Norris, who he believes is a better "ball handler."

JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
martin
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2/3/2004  9:11 AM
Posted by gogetit:
Posted by martin:

the strange thing is all Williams has to do is ask Wilkens a 6 word question: "Coach, why am I not playing?" And then all his questions would be answered. Instead, the newspaper.

Why would anyone sit and fret on the bench? Small sign of immuturity.

Martin this is what happens when you ask why to knicks brass:

Disgruntled point guard Frank Williams met with Lenny Wilkens yesterday about his out-of-rotation status before being sent home, mysteriously, with a sinus infection. Wilkens gave no indication he's ready to lift Williams over Moochie Norris, who he believes is a better "ball handler."

Sounds reasonable. You already have the worst receiving hands of most any team in the NBA combined with bad passers - Deke, Hou, Thomas, Anderson, Othella - no reason to add more bad passing.

playa, who has the worse assist/turnover numbers? Norris or Frank?

Personally I would like to see Frank play, he seems to get the players into a better flow and is not hesitant to take the shot when he is completely wide open. He is also seems to be a better defender. FWill does have a tendency to drive the ball to the whole and have no idea what to do when he gets there - whether it's a drive and stop and get surrounded, drive and flip the ball up to the basket, or drive and jump and maybe find a player open. Sometimes he converts.

Maybe coach still sees a young player who is still one year away from being really solid who also just needs to be drilled in the PG fundamentals. Check out Darko and Okur; they will probably be great players, but practice first and then play when you have earned it. I think coaches have not had the leeway to develop players. We may finally be seeing that.

And really, who is FWill to demand playing time? He has shown us 4 games when both Houston and KVH were on fire. What if FWill played the same exact game he did and those 2 guys were off and the Knicks went 0-4? Would we still be talking about Frank getting minutes?

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gunsnewing
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2/3/2004  9:26 AM
Better ball handler? That's ridiculous!! All he does it hop around and dribble the ball forever, of course he's not going to turn it over. The offense flows better with Frank Williams. I can't believe we're going through this all over again. Lenny still hasn't given him a chance. He's played him at SG and a minute or 2 at PG.
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