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told you guys.... KVH's best at 4
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HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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2/2/2004  3:14 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

I don't think Van Horn is strong enough to guard most PFs down in the low-post. Against Phoenix, he was guarding Marion, who's really an SF. Most PFs will abuse Keith in the paint. I'd play Van Horn at PF only when the other team's PF is a poor low-post player (like Marion). Keith is not a natural PF or SF, unfortanately. But if you have to pick one, under most circumstances he's done better at the SF.

This is my first post here, by the way. I had over 3000 posts at the msg boards, but like many other posters, I've left that board and I'm now posting here and at the BLP board.

Good post, Bonn. I agree with your insight.

As far as KVH goes, most are well aware that I want to see him traded. I actually think it may happen by the deadline or durting this offseason because I never hear Isiah talk about him. It seems that the pattern is when Zeke tunes a player out, they get traded. Ask Dyess. He said the same thing.
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
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s3231
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2/2/2004  4:13 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

I don't think Van Horn is strong enough to guard most PFs down in the low-post. Against Phoenix, he was guarding Marion, who's really an SF. Most PFs will abuse Keith in the paint. I'd play Van Horn at PF only when the other team's PF is a poor low-post player (like Marion). Keith is not a natural PF or SF, unfortanately. But if you have to pick one, under most circumstances he's done better at the SF.

This is my first post here, by the way. I had over 3000 posts at the msg boards, but like many other posters, I've left that board and I'm now posting here and at the BLP board.
Exactly, Ketih is not a good defender at the SF position, at the PF position he would be even worse. He would be man-handled in the paint, and he would end up fouling out in a lot of games. I don't like Kurt Thomas either, but I wouldn't trade him for nothing. He is the best trading chip we have right now. Personally, I would love to see a healthy Camby back as a Knick , he would fit so nicely with the lineup we have now.

[Edited by - s3231 on 02/02/2004 17:23:13]
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
fishmike
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2/2/2004  5:12 PM
maybe I have just seen Kurt manhandled himself to many times this year to worry about what we lose in post defense. Kelvin Cato, Carlos Boozer... Kurt's made some pretty average PFs look like world beaters this year.

[Edited by - fishmike on 02/02/2004 17:12:52]
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letitbeheard
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2/2/2004  5:25 PM
kieth is a foul prone player, if you put him in the low post, he might become even more foul prone in trying to guard stronger players then he. it's hard enough for him to guard perimeter players. fouls again.
i do think he might benefit from pf having to play deffense on him but that only happens if he can stay outta foul trouble.
not saying that kurt or anybody else for that matter can't get into foul trouble, but do we really want our third leading scorer in foul trouble most of the time? he wont be of much help then.
s3231
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2/2/2004  5:30 PM
Posted by fishmike:

maybe I have just seen Kurt manhandled himself to many times this year to worry about what we lose in post defense. Kelvin Cato, Carlos Boozer... Kurt's made some pretty average PFs look like world beaters this year.

[Edited by - fishmike on 02/02/2004 17:12:52]
Yea but if we put Van Horn at the PF position, he is most likely going to foul a lot when he gets beat up down low, and that can't happen because we need the guy on the court for his offense. I know Kurt's defense is not that great but I think putting Van Horn in there would hurt us even more. I think we are better off leaving Keith at the SF position and then we can make an attempt to trade Thomas for a better PF.
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
s3231
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2/2/2004  5:33 PM
Posted by letitbeheard:

kieth is a foul prone player, if you put him in the low post, he might become even more foul prone in trying to guard stronger players then he. it's hard enough for him to guard perimeter players. fouls again.
i do think he might benefit from pf having to play deffense on him but that only happens if he can stay outta foul trouble.
not saying that kurt or anybody else for that matter can't get into foul trouble, but do we really want our third leading scorer in foul trouble most of the time? he wont be of much help then.
Exactly what I was typing when you posted this. I agree, Van Horn would probably be in foul trouble most of the time if we put him at the PF position, and we need his offensive presence on the floor.

[Edited by - s3231 on 02/02/2004 17:34:06]
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
knicks1248
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2/2/2004  8:48 PM
KT will probably be signed and traded. IT desperately wants to get athletic, and kt doesn't fit the bill. As long as he keeps playing the way he is, he will be a tremendous trading asset
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martin
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2/2/2004  10:17 PM
I am not following all of this KVH is too foul prone as a 4 in the low post. Can't you say the same thing about him being too foul prone as a 3 against quicker SFs?

KVH is foul prone wherever you put him. He is likely to give as many fouls as he gets because he is a big 3 or a quick 4.

I like what he brings to the game. When he is involved he is an exciting guy to watch.
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KNICKSdom
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2/2/2004  11:25 PM
Keith is what he is. He is a very productive player who is not known for his defense. Not that he can't play defense. His offense game just looks better than the other end. I still think his true position is the 4 but he also has the skills to play a 3. I will take a motivated Van Horn anytime.
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MaseInYourFace
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2/3/2004  2:14 AM
Posted by KNICKSdom:

Keith is what he is. He is a very productive player who is not known for his defense. Not that he can't play defense. His offense game just looks better than the other end. I still think his true position is the 4 but he also has the skills to play a 3. I will take a motivated Van Horn anytime.

yup agreed. van horn can contribute BIG TIME, as we've seen.
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joec32033
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2/3/2004  6:29 AM
I agree with Fish and the others saying KVH would better suit us at the 4. I think that KVH will be fine (he may not have the weight of most power forwards but he has height and the ability to draw them out to guard him. IF he draws out the PF who has to guard his jumper, rebounding will be alot easier on the offensive end.

I disagree with KT just being overvalued...I think he is over rated...IMO, he falls in love with that damn jumper and when he does (whether it's falling or not, he doesn't rebound well..I don't think he is a great low post defender....he is, to me average, and what makes him the best on this team is he is probably the strongest player we have. KT reminds me of Oakley without the heart and hussle in him. With Oak, he was a GREAT defender and rebounder..ande he gave you more than that. He also gave alot when he didn't score, which Thomas doesn't do.

Thomas averages 11 and 9. Good numbers, but he is very inconsistent, which is why I think he is a better bench player than starter...As a starter you count on these numbers, off the bench, the team is not as strongly dependant on this production.
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told you guys.... KVH's best at 4

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