[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Lupica: "Maybe it's MDA that's worried about giving up too much, & not Donnie Walsh?"
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum
Page 1 of 3  1  2  3 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
Author Thread
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
2/17/2011  3:53 PM
interesting theory... i think he raises some valid points here:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/2011/02/17/2011-02-17_if_donnie_walsh_swings_the_carmelo_anthony_deal_things_will_start_to_heat_up_for.html

But one interesting sidebar to what is happening with and around Carmelo Anthony these days, and the Knicks' pursuit of Anthony, is that Donnie Walsh might not be nearly as worried about trading the three starters and all the rest of it for Anthony as his hand-picked coach, Mike D'Antoni, is.

"He's worried about gutting the team he has," one extremely dialed-in NBA source told me yesterday. "On top of that, he's worried about what they'd have to take back from Denver along with Carmelo (Chauncey Billups, perhaps old friend Renaldo Balkman and HIS expiring contract). He also knows that if the Knicks do get (Anthony), then it's not on Donnie anymore, it's on him."

Meaning the head basketball coach.

The guy I talked to isn't an NBA coach or a former NBA coach, he's a well-known executive who knows all the players in this thing. I said to him on Thursday morning, "The whole deal with Carmelo has turned into a reality TV series."

The guy said, "Maybe with D'Antoni as the star."

...

It means that D'Antoni, who probably grades as high on coaching paranoia as most of them do, has a sense that he does go right on the frontlines if the deal is made.

If Walsh does close the deal, it is hard to see how Dolan doesn't exercise the team's option on Walsh's contract at the end of April. Walsh will have made the deal that Dolan wants him to make, after a negotiation in which Dolan has involved himself, but good. In that way, the whole thing is win-win for Walsh.

Then D'Antoni is the one who has to win games.

Now, just because one basketball guy says that D'Antoni is a possible obstacle to the Knicks trading 60% of their starting lineup for Anthony doesn't automatically mean that he is. But there is a certain logic to it. D'Antoni got the Knicks winning earlier in the season and the crowd cheered. And even though the Knicks have stumbled lately, they go into the break at 28-26 and still in the sixth playoff slot in the Eastern Conference, over .500 at the break for the first time in a decade.

Clearly, though, the game changes if the Knicks do get Anthony, no matter how much they have to give up. If you think D'Antoni is already out front - really for the first time - because of the way the Knicks have stumbled the last month (mostly because they play the worst defense in the conference and defense as bad as anybody in the league), what happens the night Anthony comes out of the tunnel? At which point the crowd doesn't just cheer, it officially goes back to being the Monster of Madison Square Garden?One of the reasons that D'Antoni made the name for himself in Phoenix that he did was because he had two stars, Stoudemire and Steve Nash. But Nash was as unselfish superstar MVP as the league has seen. Not only that, he was low maintenance, and like a coach on the floor. It will be a little different if Anthony suits up for the Knicks next week. This is a young man who has been a star of his sport since he led Syracuse to the NCAA national championship as a freshman, even if he hasn't won much since.

Oh, you bet the game changes for D'Antoni, and the stakes are raised exponentially. All of a sudden, people won't just be thrilled to see the Knicks back in the playoffs, they will want them to make some real noise in the first round, even if it's against the Heat or Celtics or Magic or Bulls. Then D'Antoni really is out of the bubble in which he was allowed to operate before this season, when nobody expected him to do anything.

Maybe it makes sense that the person most worried about making this change is the guy who has to make a new team work with less than 30 games left in the regular season. In the third year of a four-year contract.

I asked the guy I talked to on Thursday to tell me where he thinks Anthony ends up. He said the situation was still way too fluid to make a call on that, because of the Knicks being in it big and the Nets. And the Bulls are still out there, even if they say they won't include Joakim Noah in an Anthony trade. And maybe a team like the Mavericks is in play, Mark Cuban willing to rent Anthony for the rest of the season.

So the Carmelo Express makes a stop in LA this weekend, the site of the All-Star Game. Where it finally ends up, nobody knows. Certainly not Donnie Walsh of the Knicks. We keep reading and hearing that he's the one worried about giving up too much. Maybe he's not.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
AUTOADVERT
Nalod
Posts: 71178
Alba Posts: 155
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
2/17/2011  4:02 PM

Ok, so then what?

YOu start building a team to run. You build it, then trade your players, have 29 games to starphuch with it and then fire the coach and then be limited in what you can do?

Great Idea!
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
2/17/2011  4:11 PM
Nalod wrote:
Ok, so then what?

YOu start building a team to run. You build it, then trade your players, have 29 games to starphuch with it and then fire the coach and then be limited in what you can do?

Great Idea!

i don't see Lupica suggesting any of this, he's just laying out the idea that completing the Melo trade makes every bit of sense for DW as a GM... he's under pressure to get this deal done... if he gets Melo then he's done his job in the eyes of Dolan... the pressure then goes to MDA to get the pieces to work under his system & win games... why do you think your plan not to starphuch is the only reasonable plan? plenty of teams in NBA history have starphuched their way to a championship... DW's plan is a starphuch plan, if u think it's not u haven't really been paying attention... he would never have traded assets to clear cap space in the first place if his eye wasn't focused on going after superstar players in free agency or trades.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
martin
Posts: 76250
Alba Posts: 108
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
2/17/2011  4:19 PM
For me this is about as big a fluff piece you can get. Who is worried more, Donnie or MDA? That's what is centers around? Worried?
Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
martin
Posts: 76250
Alba Posts: 108
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
2/17/2011  4:23 PM
TMS wrote:
Nalod wrote:
Ok, so then what?

YOu start building a team to run. You build it, then trade your players, have 29 games to starphuch with it and then fire the coach and then be limited in what you can do?

Great Idea!

i don't see Lupica suggesting any of this, he's just laying out the idea that completing the Melo trade makes every bit of sense for DW as a GM... he's under pressure to get this deal done... if he gets Melo then he's done his job in the eyes of Dolan... the pressure then goes to MDA to get the pieces to work under his system & win games... why do you think your plan not to starphuch is the only reasonable plan? plenty of teams in NBA history have starphuched their way to a championship... DW's plan is a starphuch plan, if u think it's not u haven't really been paying attention... he would never have traded assets to clear cap space in the first place if his eye wasn't focused on going after superstar players in free agency or trades.

I think you are re-defining starphuck to the one user who actually defined it. My understanding was the a significant part of starphuck was to also handcuff your team for future moves or development, which certainly hasn't happened.

Nalod, could we get a clearer picture on that?

Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
Nalod
Posts: 71178
Alba Posts: 155
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
2/17/2011  4:25 PM

Its a crap piece T, Of course it makes MDA job harder. Lose 3 starters and a core group for Melo and Billups who then have to meld into the system?

MDA signed on for shaq and only had 30 game to make it work. When it didn't Kerr made the great choice of bringing in Terry porter who was hired to depart from SSOL and he got the boot and went to Gentry to resestablish SSOL and Shaq was let go.

This is not PHX, but its a good example of what NOT to do.

I like melo and it could work but it has to be done right.
GustavBahler
Posts: 42814
Alba Posts: 15
Joined: 7/12/2010
Member: #3186
2/17/2011  4:29 PM
I hope D'Antoni doesn't have any veto power over trades. I've read stories that implied as much. He will probably shoot down any deal that involves Gallo. D'Antoni's track record with the Knicks isn't good enough to warrant that kind of influence. He should be able to voice his opinion of course but that's it.
martin
Posts: 76250
Alba Posts: 108
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
2/17/2011  4:37 PM
GustavBahler wrote:I hope D'Antoni doesn't have any veto power over trades. I've read stories that implied as much. He will probably shoot down any deal that involves Gallo. D'Antoni's track record with the Knicks isn't good enough to warrant that kind of influence. He should be able to voice his opinion of course but that's it.

you should have been laughing uncontrollably when you read that.

Unless the coach is Pop, this is never the case. I am sure Donnie invites feedback, but he makes his own decisions.

On another note, does anyone find it strange that MDA is the one who is leery about the Melo trade? His (mistaken) MO is that he has to work with vets who only like to score....

Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
2/17/2011  4:39 PM
martin wrote:For me this is about as big a fluff piece you can get. Who is worried more, Donnie or MDA? That's what is centers around? Worried?

the way i interpret this article is Lupica making the argument that it might be MDA who might be holding up the Melo trade & not necessarily DW... i think there might be some points to consider here... if u think about it DW's plan has been to get 2 superstar players to build around from the very beginning... he's been in dump salary mode for the past 2 years to get to this point where he could make a deal to get a player like Melo... i think Lupica's suggesting it doesn't make much sense that DW would be reluctant to make a trade that fulfills his mission statement, especially when he's in the last year of his contract & trying to appease his boss to get an extension... he seems to be suggesting that a Melo trade puts a ton more pressure on MDA because losing too many pieces is less attractive to the coach who will be coaching the team after the deal gets done, & not so much on the GM since he would have essentially fulfilled his original plan if he succeeded in pairing Melo with Amare in NY.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
KNICKSdom
Posts: 20799
Alba Posts: 8
Joined: 1/17/2004
Member: #545
USA
2/17/2011  4:40 PM
This article is high on how to starphuck without worrying about gutting your team. I don't care what happens in the melo front, either way I like how the Knicks have come this far and still expect them to make the playoffs with the current team or whatever roster it is after the trade deadline. They can all starphuck this.
Knicks are happening and have a Unicorn.
nixluva
Posts: 56258
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
2/17/2011  4:41 PM
GustavBahler wrote:I hope D'Antoni doesn't have any veto power over trades. I've read stories that implied as much. He will probably shoot down any deal that involves Gallo. D'Antoni's track record with the Knicks isn't good enough to warrant that kind of influence. He should be able to voice his opinion of course but that's it.

This is a non issue. MDA has input, but he's not calling the shots. He'll coach the team he's given. Liking it as opposed to what he has now is another story. Walsh values Mike's input as the guy who will be coaching the team, but that only goes so far. The fact is that Walsh is the one with his neck on the line in this negotiation. He's gonna do what he thinks is best for the franchise and on some level has to please his boss, Dolan. Dolan is the final decision maker and I know he wants Melo bad. Mike will adjust and i'm sure he'll be able to make it work.

It's gonna change things, cuz now he really doesn't meet much resistance with this roster. Once you add Melo and maybe Billups, you lose a bit of control, cuz Melo will be the big money investment and star and Billups couldn't give a crap what anyone says at this point in his career. Still both guys will likely be consummate professionals and will want things to go smoothly when they 1st get here. I'm sure they'll want to do everything they can to help make this a success. IMO Mike will be just fine. He's coached all the top players in the NBA at some point in his career and they know and respect him.
martin
Posts: 76250
Alba Posts: 108
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
2/17/2011  4:44 PM
TMS wrote:
martin wrote:For me this is about as big a fluff piece you can get. Who is worried more, Donnie or MDA? That's what is centers around? Worried?

the way i interpret this article is Lupica making the argument that it might be MDA who might be holding up the Melo trade & not necessarily DW... i think there might be some points to consider here... if u think about it DW's plan has been to get 2 superstar players to build around from the very beginning... he's been in dump salary mode for the past 2 years to get to this point where he could make a deal to get a player like Melo... i think Lupica's suggesting it doesn't make much sense that DW would be reluctant to make a trade that fulfills his mission statement, especially when he's in the last year of his contract & trying to appease his boss to get an extension... he seems to be suggesting that a Melo trade puts a ton more pressure on MDA because losing too many pieces is less attractive to the coach who will be coaching the team after the deal gets done, & not so much on the GM since he would have essentially fulfilled his original plan if he succeeded in pairing Melo with Amare in NY.

First, Lupica assumes that Donnie would trade 3 starters+ for Melo and then comes up with an afterthought that MDA would be more worried.

And then you just assumed that MDA is holding up the trade. How does MDA hold up the trade? Is he also GM?

Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
2/17/2011  4:45 PM
Nalod wrote:
Its a crap piece T, Of course it makes MDA job harder. Lose 3 starters and a core group for Melo and Billups who then have to meld into the system?

MDA signed on for shaq and only had 30 game to make it work. When it didn't Kerr made the great choice of bringing in Terry porter who was hired to depart from SSOL and he got the boot and went to Gentry to resestablish SSOL and Shaq was let go.

This is not PHX, but its a good example of what NOT to do.

I like melo and it could work but it has to be done right.

i agree it has to be done right, but it's pretty obvious DW is trying his best to give MDA the pieces he can win with... don't u think it stands to reason that he's consulting w/MDA in these talks? i have no idea what goes on behind the scenes but i have to believe he doesn't just make a move w/o first consulting w/MDA over how he thinks the move will effect his ability to do his job as the head coach.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
GustavBahler
Posts: 42814
Alba Posts: 15
Joined: 7/12/2010
Member: #3186
2/17/2011  4:47 PM
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:I hope D'Antoni doesn't have any veto power over trades. I've read stories that implied as much. He will probably shoot down any deal that involves Gallo. D'Antoni's track record with the Knicks isn't good enough to warrant that kind of influence. He should be able to voice his opinion of course but that's it.

you should have been laughing uncontrollably when you read that.

Unless the coach is Pop, this is never the case. I am sure Donnie invites feedback, but he makes his own decisions.

On another note, does anyone find it strange that MDA is the one who is leery about the Melo trade? His (mistaken) MO is that he has to work with vets who only like to score....

We are talking about the Knicks, nothing surprises me any more. We have a man found guilty of the sexual harassment of a co-worker, who turned a bad team into the worst franchise in professional sports, still advising the team. It might have been a condition of D'Antoni's to take the job.
I'm not saying its a fact but you never know with the Knicks.

I'd like to know exactly what the deal was that Lupica claims that Donnie and D'Antoni are stressing about.
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
2/17/2011  4:48 PM
martin wrote:
TMS wrote:
martin wrote:For me this is about as big a fluff piece you can get. Who is worried more, Donnie or MDA? That's what is centers around? Worried?

the way i interpret this article is Lupica making the argument that it might be MDA who might be holding up the Melo trade & not necessarily DW... i think there might be some points to consider here... if u think about it DW's plan has been to get 2 superstar players to build around from the very beginning... he's been in dump salary mode for the past 2 years to get to this point where he could make a deal to get a player like Melo... i think Lupica's suggesting it doesn't make much sense that DW would be reluctant to make a trade that fulfills his mission statement, especially when he's in the last year of his contract & trying to appease his boss to get an extension... he seems to be suggesting that a Melo trade puts a ton more pressure on MDA because losing too many pieces is less attractive to the coach who will be coaching the team after the deal gets done, & not so much on the GM since he would have essentially fulfilled his original plan if he succeeded in pairing Melo with Amare in NY.

First, Lupica assumes that Donnie would trade 3 starters+ for Melo and then comes up with an afterthought that MDA would be more worried.

And then you just assumed that MDA is holding up the trade. How does MDA hold up the trade? Is he also GM?

i didn't assume anything... i'm reiterating what the article is suggesting, just considering some of the points he's making in this article... why are you assuming that DW makes all his decisions w/o consulting MDA on what he's planning to do?

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
2/17/2011  4:49 PM
KNICKSdom wrote:This article is high on how to starphuck without worrying about gutting your team. I don't care what happens in the melo front, either way I like how the Knicks have come this far and still expect them to make the playoffs with the current team or whatever roster it is after the trade deadline. They can all starphuck this.

really? where do u read any of that?

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
GustavBahler
Posts: 42814
Alba Posts: 15
Joined: 7/12/2010
Member: #3186
2/17/2011  4:50 PM
nixluva wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:I hope D'Antoni doesn't have any veto power over trades. I've read stories that implied as much. He will probably shoot down any deal that involves Gallo. D'Antoni's track record with the Knicks isn't good enough to warrant that kind of influence. He should be able to voice his opinion of course but that's it.

This is a non issue. MDA has input, but he's not calling the shots. He'll coach the team he's given. Liking it as opposed to what he has now is another story. Walsh values Mike's input as the guy who will be coaching the team, but that only goes so far. The fact is that Walsh is the one with his neck on the line in this negotiation. He's gonna do what he thinks is best for the franchise and on some level has to please his boss, Dolan. Dolan is the final decision maker and I know he wants Melo bad. Mike will adjust and i'm sure he'll be able to make it work.

It's gonna change things, cuz now he really doesn't meet much resistance with this roster. Once you add Melo and maybe Billups, you lose a bit of control, cuz Melo will be the big money investment and star and Billups couldn't give a crap what anyone says at this point in his career. Still both guys will likely be consummate professionals and will want things to go smoothly when they 1st get here. I'm sure they'll want to do everything they can to help make this a success. IMO Mike will be just fine. He's coached all the top players in the NBA at some point in his career and they know and respect him.

I hope you are right.
nixluva
Posts: 56258
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
2/17/2011  4:53 PM
while there's a difference in coaching guys like Fields and Timo, still it goes forgotten that Mike has coached so many Elite players already when he was with the Olympic team. These guys already know the deal and so does Mike. I know one thing, as great of a talent as Melo is and as smart as Billups is, there's no way they don't buy in and succeed in this guys system. So long as a team is winning things are always "all good". We'd have a mini big 3 with Billups, Amar'e and Melo and I see no way that team has problems winning with our remaining schedule being so easy.
Bippity10
Posts: 13999
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/26/2004
Member: #574
2/17/2011  4:54 PM
Always an unproven controversy in NY
I just hope that people will like me
nixluva
Posts: 56258
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
2/17/2011  4:57 PM
Bippity10 wrote:Always an unproven controversy in NY

Media LOVES to keep creating these "issues" and making them out to be seriously big deals when they aren't.
Page 1 of 3  1  2  3 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
Lupica: "Maybe it's MDA that's worried about giving up too much, & not Donnie Walsh?"
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy