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Remember those illegal workouts with scout Heard and Chandler... Knicks get off easy.
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martin
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2/3/2011  2:26 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/04/sports/basketball/04knicks.html

N.B.A. Fines Knicks $200,000 for Prohibited Workouts
By JONATHAN ABRAMS
Published: February 3, 2011

The N.B.A. has fined the Knicks $200,000 and one of their scouts $20,000 after concluding that the scout, Rodney Heard, conducted workouts of college prospects that violated league rules, according to two people made aware of the league’s actions.

The Knicks were notified of the punishment Wednesday. The fines are expected to be announced later Thursday afternoon. The punishments stem from workouts conducted by Heard in Atlanta in May 2007 and May 2010.

Heard, who has been with the club since 2006, was promoted to East Coast scouting director in 2008. The punishment is generally in line with previous cases that involved violations of draft workout rules, although some team executives had expected the Knicks to be forced to forfeit future draft picks as part of any punishment.

The Knicks hold the option of imposing further discipline on Heard, who joined the organization when Isiah Thomas was the team president.

Significantly, Thomas, who now coaches at Florida International University, was not cited by the N.B.A. in the penalties it handed down. Had the league singled him out, and tried to punish him as well, it might have affected his ability to rejoin the Knicks at some point in the future, something he clearly is interested in doing.

As of now, he remains eligible to rejoin the Knicks’ front office if he leaves his job as a college coach. The Knicks attempted to hire Thomas as a part-time consultant last summer while he remained the coach at F.I.U., but were then informed by the N.B.A. that they could not do so because of the conflict it created.

The Heard case stems from N.B.A. rules that prohibit teams and their employees from having contact with draft-eligible players before the league’s annual predraft camp, which is held every spring after the regular season ends.

Once the camp concludes, teams can work out players individually but under strict guidelines set by the league.

The league determined that Heard conducted secret workouts before the camp, presumably to give the Knicks an edge in determining whether a prospect was worth drafting.

Brandon Rush, who now plays for the Indiana Pacers, sustained a serious knee injury in one of Heard’s workouts in 2007, according to Yahoo Sports, which first reported in October on Heard’s workouts.

Heard also conducted workouts that year with Wilson Chandler, according to the Yahoo report. Chandler did not work out for any organization other than the Knicks before the draft, citing an injured ankle. The Knicks selected Chandler 23rd over all that June and he has turned into a formidable player; he has denied taking part in any illegal workouts.

In 2010 Heard conducted several illegal workouts that included Baylor’s Ekpe Udoh, according to Yahoo. The Golden State Warriors selected Udoh with the sixth overall pick in last year’s draft.

In the most recent documented case of workout violations, in 2005, the Denver Nuggets were fined $200,000 after Coach George Karl attended workouts at Marquette University, where his son, Coby, was playing. The visit violated rules prohibiting contact between team officials and players who are not yet eligible for the draft. The league initially suspended Karl for three games but later reduced the punishment to two games.

In 2002 the N.B.A. fined the Cleveland Cavaliers $150,000 and suspended the coach, John Lucas, two games for including LeBron James, then a high school junior, in a team workout.

Over the last decade the league has fined teams $50,000 to $150,000 for other violations of draft rules and in some cases suspended team officials who were involved.

Howard Beck contributed reporting.

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AnubisADL
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2/3/2011  2:27 PM
I guess no new Bentley for Dolan this year.
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eViL
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2/3/2011  2:29 PM
best part is that it silences all the alarmist knicks fans who were certain we'd be forfeiting draft picks. granted, since we're not used to things going well for the franchise lately, i understand the tendency to envision worst case scenarios. this also applies to the constantly recurring isiah talk.
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Panos
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2/3/2011  2:35 PM
Too bad they didn't fine them $200,000 and ban Isiah from the NBA.
SupremeCommander
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2/3/2011  2:43 PM
eViL wrote:best part is that it silences all the alarmist knicks fans who were certain we'd be forfeiting draft picks. granted, since we're not used to things going well for the franchise lately, i understand the tendency to envision worst case scenarios. this also applies to the constantly recurring isiah talk.

I was one of them and thought it would be justified. The Knicks gained a competitive advantage during the draft by breaking draft rules. I thought loss of the pick was equitable and sever enough to be a deterrent. But then again NBA refs gamble. So I suppose leagues like the NFL are the only ones that care about enforcing the rules. $220k is a slap on the wrist. That's got to be under 10 percent of one game's gat revenue.

Glad I was wrong and will gladly eat crow on this one

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
abs
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2/3/2011  2:44 PM
good news didnt loose any draft picks now back to trade deadline with the chips we have
Silverfuel
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2/3/2011  2:48 PM
abs wrote:good news didnt loose any draft picks now back to trade deadline with the chips we have

same, phew.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
martin
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2/3/2011  2:52 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:
eViL wrote:best part is that it silences all the alarmist knicks fans who were certain we'd be forfeiting draft picks. granted, since we're not used to things going well for the franchise lately, i understand the tendency to envision worst case scenarios. this also applies to the constantly recurring isiah talk.

I was one of them and thought it would be justified. The Knicks gained a competitive advantage during the draft by breaking draft rules. I thought loss of the pick was equitable and sever enough to be a deterrent. But then again NBA refs gamble. So I suppose leagues like the NFL are the only ones that care about enforcing the rules. $220k is a slap on the wrist. That's got to be under 10 percent of one game's gat revenue.

Glad I was wrong and will gladly eat crow on this one

my guess is that it's too hard to absolutely prove what was going on. Did Heard have a workout with some dudes and Chandler and his agent just happen to be in the same gym? Or was this more of a Heard asked agent and Chandler to stop down at a specific time and had him go through a specific workout. Like that.

Lots of gray areas that no one can verify with certainty.

$200K seem like Section 404 beer revenue on a BRIGGS UK night for the 30 minute halftime slot.

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SupremeCommander
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2/3/2011  2:55 PM
martin wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
eViL wrote:best part is that it silences all the alarmist knicks fans who were certain we'd be forfeiting draft picks. granted, since we're not used to things going well for the franchise lately, i understand the tendency to envision worst case scenarios. this also applies to the constantly recurring isiah talk.

I was one of them and thought it would be justified. The Knicks gained a competitive advantage during the draft by breaking draft rules. I thought loss of the pick was equitable and sever enough to be a deterrent. But then again NBA refs gamble. So I suppose leagues like the NFL are the only ones that care about enforcing the rules. $220k is a slap on the wrist. That's got to be under 10 percent of one game's gat revenue.

Glad I was wrong and will gladly eat crow on this one

my guess is that it's too hard to absolutely prove what was going on. Did Heard have a workout with some dudes and Chandler and his agent just happen to be in the same gym? Or was this more of a Heard asked agent and Chandler to stop down at a specific time and had him go through a specific workout. Like that.

Lots of gray areas that no one can verify with certainty.

$200K seem like Section 404 beer revenue on a BRIGGS UK night for the 30 minute halftime slot.

that's a great point... didn't really think about that. I don't know, after all the WWE style BS that's happened in the league the past decade, you htink they would hit real hard when they hit. But whatever--this penalty doesn't affect me at all. Life goes on as normal in Knickland

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
franco12
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2/3/2011  3:59 PM
Its not like we have that many first round picks that they could actually take, so having traded them recently maybe paid off!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BigDaddyG
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2/3/2011  4:44 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/3/2011  4:45 PM
martin wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
eViL wrote:best part is that it silences all the alarmist knicks fans who were certain we'd be forfeiting draft picks. granted, since we're not used to things going well for the franchise lately, i understand the tendency to envision worst case scenarios. this also applies to the constantly recurring isiah talk.

I was one of them and thought it would be justified. The Knicks gained a competitive advantage during the draft by breaking draft rules. I thought loss of the pick was equitable and sever enough to be a deterrent. But then again NBA refs gamble. So I suppose leagues like the NFL are the only ones that care about enforcing the rules. $220k is a slap on the wrist. That's got to be under 10 percent of one game's gat revenue.

Glad I was wrong and will gladly eat crow on this one

my guess is that it's too hard to absolutely prove what was going on. Did Heard have a workout with some dudes and Chandler and his agent just happen to be in the same gym? Or was this more of a Heard asked agent and Chandler to stop down at a specific time and had him go through a specific workout. Like that.

Lots of gray areas that no one can verify with certainty.

$200K seem like Section 404 beer revenue on a BRIGGS UK night for the 30 minute halftime slot.

Any idea how this fine compares to the fines given to other teams who have committed similar infractions? The penalty seems in line with what the NBA has done in the past, but the size of the fine seems small.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
JohnWallace44
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2/3/2011  5:11 PM
I'd give Heard a raise. It cost the Knicks $200K to get a player nobody else was even talking about? Chandler ends up giving us several cheap years of production.

Who were the workouts with in 2010?

Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
Nalod
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2/3/2011  6:05 PM

Compared to 11 mil Anucha got this was a bargain!

Maybe Stern pulled little jimmy aside and told him he went easy on him but he gotta keep the clown under the bed.

If Isiah wants to clone himself in Argentina with the "Boys from Brazil" for our next point guard IM ok with it but Isiahs brain is worthless as an executive!

VDesai
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2/3/2011  7:15 PM
I was definitely worried we were gonna be losing draft picks
eViL
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2/4/2011  12:14 AM
SupremeCommander wrote:
eViL wrote:best part is that it silences all the alarmist knicks fans who were certain we'd be forfeiting draft picks. granted, since we're not used to things going well for the franchise lately, i understand the tendency to envision worst case scenarios. this also applies to the constantly recurring isiah talk.

I was one of them and thought it would be justified. The Knicks gained a competitive advantage during the draft by breaking draft rules. I thought loss of the pick was equitable and sever enough to be a deterrent. But then again NBA refs gamble. So I suppose leagues like the NFL are the only ones that care about enforcing the rules. $220k is a slap on the wrist. That's got to be under 10 percent of one game's gat revenue.

Glad I was wrong and will gladly eat crow on this one

hey i'm far from certain that we've averted disaster, but i'm cautiously optimistic. it's gonna take a lot more than half a season of above .500 ball to wipe away the decade of debacles on top of debacles. i understand why people were scared.

check out my latest hip hop project: https://soundcloud.com/michaelcro http://youtu.be/scNXshrpyZo
Andrew
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2/4/2011  9:39 AM
BigDaddyG wrote:Any idea how this fine compares to the fines given to other teams who have committed similar infractions? The penalty seems in line with what the NBA has done in the past, but the size of the fine seems small.

This is what I found a while back.

10/18/02
The NBA fined Dallas $150,000 and suspended Don Nelson and Donn Nelson for
the first 2 games of the regular season for contact with players who were
ineligible for the NBA draft. The Nelsons attended private workouts in
Yugoslavia in June.

5/28/02
The NBA fined Cleveland $150,000 and suspended coach John Lucas for the
first 2 games of next season for including high school junior LeBron James
in a voluntary team workout. NBA rules prohibit teams from having contact
with players not yet eligible for the NBA draft.

7/7/00
The NBA fined Dallas and Milwaukee $50,000 each for violating league rules
governing the tryouts of draft prospects. League rules prohibit having 4
draft prospects on the court at the same time and having draft prospects
compete against veterans. [Dallas was fined for using a draft prospect in
a 5-on-5 scrimmage.

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BigDaddyG
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2/4/2011  12:56 PM
Andrew wrote:
BigDaddyG wrote:Any idea how this fine compares to the fines given to other teams who have committed similar infractions? The penalty seems in line with what the NBA has done in the past, but the size of the fine seems small.

This is what I found a while back.

10/18/02
The NBA fined Dallas $150,000 and suspended Don Nelson and Donn Nelson for
the first 2 games of the regular season for contact with players who were
ineligible for the NBA draft. The Nelsons attended private workouts in
Yugoslavia in June.

5/28/02
The NBA fined Cleveland $150,000 and suspended coach John Lucas for the
first 2 games of next season for including high school junior LeBron James
in a voluntary team workout. NBA rules prohibit teams from having contact
with players not yet eligible for the NBA draft.

7/7/00
The NBA fined Dallas and Milwaukee $50,000 each for violating league rules
governing the tryouts of draft prospects. League rules prohibit having 4
draft prospects on the court at the same time and having draft prospects
compete against veterans. [Dallas was fined for using a draft prospect in
a 5-on-5 scrimmage.


Wow, only $150,000 for conducting an illegal workout with a high school junior, lmfao. I guess the $200,000 fine is in line with past disciplinary actions. I can't see what would keep an NBA team from doing something similar again.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
Remember those illegal workouts with scout Heard and Chandler... Knicks get off easy.

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