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(...another darn Melo article) David D'Alessandro and his take
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martin
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1/28/2011  12:42 PM
http://www.nj.com/knicks/index.ssf/2011/01/dalessandro_knicks_in_need_of.html

D'Alessandro: Knicks in need of an upgrade, but it's not who you're thinking of

NEW YORK — “Here’s what everyone is missing,” Donnie Walsh was saying an hour before tipoff, as he pondered the vagaries of trades and Knicks and the unspoken agent (name: Carmelo Anthony) that weaved those two talking points together in the latest NBA cacophony.

“In the end, it doesn’t make a damn bit of difference what everyone wants. It’s about what Denver wants to do. They’re in control of everything, whether people want to believe it or not. And I can’t tell you what they want, because I don’t know.”

Still, the Knicks’ president can take an educated guess, as we all can by now.

Essentially, the Nuggets have four boxes to fill if they are to part with their star: Denver wants at least one high draft pick, a really good player on his rookie contract, a second good player on a good contract, and major cap relief in the form of expiring contracts.

And if they fill all those boxes and get under the luxury tax, GM Masai Ujiri — whose name we have typed so often we’ve added him to the Auto Correct function on this keyboard — will be satisfied. Maybe.

But here’s the thing about Melo, vis-à-vis the Knicks’ own ambitions for this season and beyond: If we were Walsh, and we had the wherewithal to land this A-plus scorer by boxing up and shipping out four assets, we’d first take a few laps around Madison Square Garden before reaching a fairly easy conclusion.

Pass.

The Knicks don’t need Carmelo — not as much as they need other players, anyway — and even if he’s not willing to admit this, Walsh only had to consider three facts before his team survived a 93-88 pulse-beater against Miami:

• They average 106 points per game, second in the NBA.

• The last thing they need is another offensive-minded player.

• The second-to-last thing they need is a wing upgrade.

Sure, you cannot have enough stars. Miami’s appearance here (anywhere, really) was a celebration of that eternal truth, as the presence of LeBron James and Dwyane Wade brought an avalanche of media that hasn’t been seen around here since … uh, the Heat’s last visit to the Garden.

But the Knicks can’t be what Miami is or will be. They are in the process of stockpiling their own assets and mapping their own route, and you can’t fast-track the process.

They already know where they are competitive. Amar’e Stoudemire is still part of the MVP discussion. Raymond Felton is the third best point guard in the East. They have an enviable collection of wings. They have a style and they have an identity.

What they lack, however, is the size they’ll need to take the next step.

Walsh has come around to believing this is his priority now, and we agree.

“I’d like another big guy to play with Amar’e,” Walsh said. “It’s nothing against the guys we have here — I love (Ronny) Turiaf — but you need a big, strong guy next to Amar’e. I don’t want Amar’e being the enforcer out there.”

Another big man — one who can give them length, toughness, and flexibility in their power rotation — would give them the only facet that may (may) eject them from the sixth-place standing they seem destined to occupy.

As much as we like Anthony, the Knicks would actually be more cohesive if they could land the beast who plays alongside him, Nene. No, you can’t get him — not even for Eddy Curry and a pick, not even after Denver starts the fire sale. Centers are disappearing again, and they may be endangered for some time.

Still, this is how Walsh must think, as he ponders incremental steps, fortifies his bench, and saves his cap space as he lines up the moonshot (Dwight Howard) in 2012 — all the while knowing that you win with quality size in the NBA, period.

Sure, Denver could give Donnie an offer he can’t refuse, or Melo forces the deal he wanted all along. LeBron himself wasn’t offering much insight, saying he just wants to see his friend happy. He also attempted some false modesty, stating that “we’re a good team, not a great team — I don’t know if teams (like the Knicks) want to get to our level.”

That’s goofy — sure, they do. The Knicks barely exceeded Miami’s level last night, in a game LeBron shot 7-for-24, Wade missed eight foul shots, and Chris Bosh stayed home. Quality win, substandard performance.

Call it as a sign that they won't get to Miami’s level trying to match them star-for-star. That would take a power surge and defensive mentality the Knicks don’t currently have. They’re a player away. And he’s not an offensive player.

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tkf
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1/28/2011  12:43 PM
this was a good read and made a lot of sense.. we do need a big more than anything right now..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tj23
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1/28/2011  1:08 PM
Gotta find a big that can compliment Amare but also stay out of his way a bit. If he clogs up the lane Amare will just be shooting jumpers all day or driving into double teams.
GustavBahler
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1/28/2011  1:16 PM
I agree with the article that there are other needs like a big and an above average backup PG but I disagree that the Knicks have enough scoring. I know, they are right up there in PPG but the Knicks have shown that they run into trouble against good defensive teams. Melo can score when the pressure is on in ways that players on this roster can't. We've seen our best scorers shut down where in the same situation I'm guessing that Melo would be able to handle it.
AnubisADL
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1/28/2011  1:22 PM
I never understand these articles. We need a big so we can become the Atlanta Hawks?

I'll pass. Give me Carmelo. Making the playoffs every year is great but I want to be a contender.

NY Knicks - Retirement home for players and GMs
Nalod
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1/28/2011  1:24 PM

If Moz was two years younger and tearing up the ACC we'd all be crying about not having a high pick.

Mozzy Bear is getting ready.

At best he is two yeras away from being really good if he ever achieves that. He'll be 26 then. Also have his "Man Strength" by then.

Few Bigs mature early. Even Dwight Howard has not found his offensive game.

It would be nuts to say Mozzy Bear is the Savior. We all want that Starphuch but it does not happen over night.

What is the plan? Dwight? in '12? Anyone think our yoots get even better? AR gets better? Or as trade asset?

Go bigger and deeper in smaller moves?

Use the imagination not just the obvious starphuch.

Good article. Can't match Miami, but we could go big.

Maybe the Starphuch here is to watch our yoots grow and use our cap space wisely. Dwight? Maybe he is the one.

MSG3
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1/28/2011  1:25 PM
This article echoes what a lot of pepole here say....that since the Knicks score a lot they don't need another scorer. But I think a good comparable argument is the difference between STAT and Lee. Everyone said "Oh why do we need STAT when Lee is a 20/10 guy?" But now we all see the difference, right?

Look at how much effort it takes us to score our average of 106. How many times in the last 10 games have we been held under 100? I think quite a few. You can't just look at numebrs and say we have enough scoring. You add Melo to this team and we won't run into the problem we have when teams zero in on Amar'e, Cahndler has an off game, Galo goes quiet for a few quarters here and there and Felton tries to compensate by scoring instead of distributing. Why won't we run into those problems? Because Amar'e and Melo will ahve a great 2 Man game going, Felton will ahve two amazing options to go to, the double team won't be effective and it will be rare when all 3 of STAT, Melo and Felton have cold nights. And on those nights, hopefully who ever is left over can step up. Furthermoe, hopefully everyone will be so invigorated by having such a quality roster that it'll translate into great Defensive effort. I don't think Wade and Bosh were ever considered great defenders before this year. And now look...Miami is a top 5 defensive team.

This Melo deal has to go down. And if it doesn't, we have to sign him this summer.

GustavBahler
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1/28/2011  1:28 PM
Nalod wrote:
If Moz was two years younger and tearing up the ACC we'd all be crying about not having a high pick.

Mozzy Bear is getting ready.

At best he is two yeras away from being really good if he ever achieves that. He'll be 26 then. Also have his "Man Strength" by then.

Few Bigs mature early. Even Dwight Howard has not found his offensive game.

It would be nuts to say Mozzy Bear is the Savior. We all want that Starphuch but it does not happen over night.

What is the plan? Dwight? in '12? Anyone think our yoots get even better? AR gets better? Or as trade asset?

Go bigger and deeper in smaller moves?

Use the imagination not just the obvious starphuch.

Good article. Can't match Miami, but we could go big.

Maybe the Starphuch here is to watch our yoots grow and use our cap space wisely. Dwight? Maybe he is the one.

All the nice things that Walsh and D'antoni said about Moz in that article posted a while back makes me wonder if its just to boost his value in a trade. I hope he can play his way into the rotation, and if he is improving I hope he stays, but they seemed a bit too generous with the compliments considering he can't even sniff garbage time for the most part.

MSG3
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1/28/2011  1:33 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
Nalod wrote:
If Moz was two years younger and tearing up the ACC we'd all be crying about not having a high pick.

Mozzy Bear is getting ready.

At best he is two yeras away from being really good if he ever achieves that. He'll be 26 then. Also have his "Man Strength" by then.

Few Bigs mature early. Even Dwight Howard has not found his offensive game.

It would be nuts to say Mozzy Bear is the Savior. We all want that Starphuch but it does not happen over night.

What is the plan? Dwight? in '12? Anyone think our yoots get even better? AR gets better? Or as trade asset?

Go bigger and deeper in smaller moves?

Use the imagination not just the obvious starphuch.

Good article. Can't match Miami, but we could go big.

Maybe the Starphuch here is to watch our yoots grow and use our cap space wisely. Dwight? Maybe he is the one.

All the nice things that Walsh and D'antoni said about Moz in that article posted a while back makes me wonder if its just to boost his value in a trade. I hope he can play his way into the rotation, and if he is improving I hope he stays, but they seemed a bit too generous with the compliments considering he can't even sniff garbage time for the most part.

We rarely have garbage time though. All of our games are close. I guess he could've gotten in the Houston game? We've had 1 or 2 blowout victories and 2-3 blowout losses all year I think. That also prohibits guys like AR and Moz from getting a look. We're always close and Mike doesn't trust them enough yet to contribute when it counts.

Rookie
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1/28/2011  1:36 PM
Mike...how big?

seriously mike...really...how big?

BTW...have you gotten to know any of the knicks city dancers?

GustavBahler
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1/28/2011  1:40 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/28/2011  1:40 PM
MSG3 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Nalod wrote:
If Moz was two years younger and tearing up the ACC we'd all be crying about not having a high pick.

Mozzy Bear is getting ready.

At best he is two yeras away from being really good if he ever achieves that. He'll be 26 then. Also have his "Man Strength" by then.

Few Bigs mature early. Even Dwight Howard has not found his offensive game.

It would be nuts to say Mozzy Bear is the Savior. We all want that Starphuch but it does not happen over night.

What is the plan? Dwight? in '12? Anyone think our yoots get even better? AR gets better? Or as trade asset?

Go bigger and deeper in smaller moves?

Use the imagination not just the obvious starphuch.

Good article. Can't match Miami, but we could go big.

Maybe the Starphuch here is to watch our yoots grow and use our cap space wisely. Dwight? Maybe he is the one.

All the nice things that Walsh and D'antoni said about Moz in that article posted a while back makes me wonder if its just to boost his value in a trade. I hope he can play his way into the rotation, and if he is improving I hope he stays, but they seemed a bit too generous with the compliments considering he can't even sniff garbage time for the most part.

We rarely have garbage time though. All of our games are close. I guess he could've gotten in the Houston game? We've had 1 or 2 blowout victories and 2-3 blowout losses all year I think. That also prohibits guys like AR and Moz from getting a look. We're always close and Mike doesn't trust them enough yet to contribute when it counts.

I'd have to go back and look at the scores but there have been games where the final score was not a real indication of how badly they lost. I do believe there is room for Moz to get some minutes. Too many games where the Knicks went small against a big lineup and it hurt them.

PresIke
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1/28/2011  1:54 PM
AnubisADL wrote:I never understand these articles. We need a big so we can become the Atlanta Hawks?

I'll pass. Give me Carmelo. Making the playoffs every year is great but I want to be a contender.

this is where you and i agree.

amar'e is also not guaranteed to be the same player, health wise, if we wait around, since no one has will have ever played as long as he has with the type of cartilage put in his knee in a few years.

putting all eggs into the basket of amar'e carrying this team seems like a risk to me.

btw, nene is someone i had been thinking about, yet he is also not a good rebounder.

Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
GoNyGoNyGo
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1/28/2011  2:03 PM
So what C's are realistic?

Kaman is someone that may work. LA needs a SF, Ny needs a C. How about Chandler, Curry for Kaman and filler? The only thing is Kaman is on the books for next season at 12M/per and he is injury prone. LA then can play Jordan and gets space next year.

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1/28/2011  2:18 PM
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:So what C's are realistic?

Kaman is someone that may work. LA needs a SF, Ny needs a C. How about Chandler, Curry for Kaman and filler? The only thing is Kaman is on the books for next season at 12M/per and he is injury prone. LA then can play Jordan and gets space next year.

I wonder if Mehmet Okur is available. He would be a perfect compliment for Amare.

fishmike
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1/28/2011  2:51 PM
MSG3 wrote:This article echoes what a lot of pepole here say....that since the Knicks score a lot they don't need another scorer. But I think a good comparable argument is the difference between STAT and Lee. Everyone said "Oh why do we need STAT when Lee is a 20/10 guy?" But now we all see the difference, right?

Look at how much effort it takes us to score our average of 106. How many times in the last 10 games have we been held under 100? I think quite a few. You can't just look at numebrs and say we have enough scoring. You add Melo to this team and we won't run into the problem we have when teams zero in on Amar'e, Cahndler has an off game, Galo goes quiet for a few quarters here and there and Felton tries to compensate by scoring instead of distributing. Why won't we run into those problems? Because Amar'e and Melo will ahve a great 2 Man game going, Felton will ahve two amazing options to go to, the double team won't be effective and it will be rare when all 3 of STAT, Melo and Felton have cold nights. And on those nights, hopefully who ever is left over can step up. Furthermoe, hopefully everyone will be so invigorated by having such a quality roster that it'll translate into great Defensive effort. I don't think Wade and Bosh were ever considered great defenders before this year. And now look...Miami is a top 5 defensive team.

This Melo deal has to go down. And if it doesn't, we have to sign him this summer.


bringing Lee in this arguement is totally apples and oranges.

Before we had Amare did we have a franchise player? No. Did we have a go-to scorer? No. Did we have anyone who played defense in the post? No. Were we a winning team with an identity? No.

We have and are all those things now.

So saying Lee vs. Amare is kinda like Melo vs. the current Knick wings has zero relevence what so ever.

With 40 something games to evaluate you can get a pretty good idea about what the Knicks need and dont need. When we lost the 6 in a row we were outrebounded by an AVERAGE of 9.5 boards a game. THAT is why we are losing. That and we have no protection for our go-to scorer. When Ewing was here he was our goto scorer, and he was protected from foul trouble by having big tough rugged guys around him like Oak, Mason, even Camby later who could step in or allow Ew to guard the lesser threat.

There is a ton to like about Melo, starting with the fact that he wants to be here, but he is not the key to winning a title. Size is. You can talk system all you want but no small team up front has won a title in the 20 years I have followed the NBA.

The pro Melo guys simply cant get past the fact that he might not be the key to making the Knicks an elite team.

Anubis, You dont want the Knicks to be like the Hawks? Then you go big and DONT trade like Melo. The Knicks are EXACTLY like the Hawks. Both start a 6'10 PF at center. Both play 3 SF tweener types at the 4/3/2. Chandler, Gallo, Fields... very similar to Josh Smith, Joe Johnson and Marvin Williams. Not similar in style per say but the Hawks are NOT a big physical team and those guys get pushed around when the playoffs start.

This article is 100% right. If the Knicks are smart AND they are considering Melo they will either get him with a low ball panic offer or build the size up on this team and sign him as a FA. THATS the ideal scenario. Trade Chandler for a good big in a rookie contract, then max out Melo in the summer.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
TMS
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1/28/2011  3:22 PM
AnubisADL wrote:I never understand these articles. We need a big so we can become the Atlanta Hawks?

I'll pass. Give me Carmelo. Making the playoffs every year is great but I want to be a contender.

agreed... players like Nene or Marc Gasol are NOT going to make as much of an impact that a star like Melo will on this roster... u get me 2 elite players like Amare & Melo on the same team & i'll worry about the role players later.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
BigDaddyG
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1/28/2011  3:44 PM
NYKBocker wrote:
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:So what C's are realistic?

Kaman is someone that may work. LA needs a SF, Ny needs a C. How about Chandler, Curry for Kaman and filler? The only thing is Kaman is on the books for next season at 12M/per and he is injury prone. LA then can play Jordan and gets space next year.

I wonder if Mehmet Okur is available. He would be a perfect compliment for Amare.

I've been thinking this for a while. He's an expiring too. I haven't caught many Utah games, so I'm not sure how how he's recovering from the achilles injury. But the inury shouldn't have too much of an impact on his game.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
Killa4luv
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1/29/2011  2:28 AM
TMS wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:I never understand these articles. We need a big so we can become the Atlanta Hawks?

I'll pass. Give me Carmelo. Making the playoffs every year is great but I want to be a contender.

agreed... players like Nene or Marc Gasol are NOT going to make as much of an impact that a star like Melo will on this roster... u get me 2 elite players like Amare & Melo on the same team & i'll worry about the role players later.

exactly. Get me melo & stat and I'll go grab Luc Longley outta retirement.

OldFan
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1/29/2011  4:22 AM
MSG3 wrote:This article echoes what a lot of pepole here say....that since the Knicks score a lot they don't need another scorer. But I think a good comparable argument is the difference between STAT and Lee. Everyone said "Oh why do we need STAT when Lee is a 20/10 guy?" But now we all see the difference, right?

Look at how much effort it takes us to score our average of 106. How many times in the last 10 games have we been held under 100? I think quite a few. You can't just look at numebrs and say we have enough scoring. You add Melo to this team and we won't run into the problem we have when teams zero in on Amar'e, Cahndler has an off game, Galo goes quiet for a few quarters here and there and Felton tries to compensate by scoring instead of distributing. Why won't we run into those problems? Because Amar'e and Melo will ahve a great 2 Man game going, Felton will ahve two amazing options to go to, the double team won't be effective and it will be rare when all 3 of STAT, Melo and Felton have cold nights. And on those nights, hopefully who ever is left over can step up. Furthermoe, hopefully everyone will be so invigorated by having such a quality roster that it'll translate into great Defensive effort. I don't think Wade and Bosh were ever considered great defenders before this year. And now look...Miami is a top 5 defensive team.

This Melo deal has to go down. And if it doesn't, we have to sign him this summer.

Wade has been named to the second team all defensive team for the last two years.

OldFan
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1/29/2011  4:34 AM
AnubisADL wrote:I never understand these articles. We need a big so we can become the Atlanta Hawks?

I'll pass. Give me Carmelo. Making the playoffs every year is great but I want to be a contender.

Does Melo make us a contender? I don't know that he makes us a contender even if we give up nothing. And we're not getting him for nothing.

(...another darn Melo article) David D'Alessandro and his take

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