TMS wrote:until we get a better option, Ronny should be starting games from now on... going small is putting us at a size disadvantage every night... we need to save some of the wear & tear on Amare's body by playing him at his natural position as much as possible.

Yes you are correct. But we all know it is just a matter of time before Turiaff gets injured or MDA decides to go small again.

Vmart wrote:

TMS wrote:until we get a better option, Ronny should be starting games from now on... going small is putting us at a size disadvantage every night... we need to save some of the wear & tear on Amare's body by playing him at his natural position as much as possible.

Yes you are correct. But we all know it is just a matter of time before Turiaff gets injured or MDA decides to go small again.

Turiaf's durability is definitely a reason for concern... but right now what are our other options? Mozgov is nowhere near ready to play regular minutes & AR is clearly not getting the MDA system at all... Shawne Williams is best used off the bench as a spot up shooter but not at all effective as a starting PF... once Gallo comes back maybe Turiaf goes back to the bench but tell u the truth i would prefer to start him & have Wilson go back to being the 6th man scorer to provide some steady offense off the bench... TD is way too erradic & he's a walking bandage right now, he doesn't look right at all.

s3231 wrote:Against a team like Portland, I think Turiaf is very capable of nights like this.

As far as going up against a team like the Lakers though, I can't say I fault D'Antoni's strategy of going small because I don't think Turiaf can be as effective going up against the front-line of Gasol, Bynum, and Odom. Realizing that, D'Antoni instead added another shooter to our lineup in that game hoping that we could turn the tables and make them match up to us. I don't think you can fault Mike for that decision, it didn't work out as well as he had hoped but if our guys knock down shots, we have a much better chance at beating a team that is better than us. Until we get the talent and size to compete with teams like the Lakers and the Celtics, speedball or smallball (or w/e you want to call it) actually gives us a decent shot at competing in these games.

did u watch Turiaf's defense on Aldridge last night? he shut him down in the 2nd half... u don't think he would have been more effective against Odom or Gasol than Shawne Williams?

martin wrote:

TMS wrote:

s3231 wrote:Against a team like Portland, I think Turiaf is very capable of nights like this.

As far as going up against a team like the Lakers though, I can't say I fault D'Antoni's strategy of going small because I don't think Turiaf can be as effective going up against the front-line of Gasol, Bynum, and Odom. Realizing that, D'Antoni instead added another shooter to our lineup in that game hoping that we could turn the tables and make them match up to us. I don't think you can fault Mike for that decision, it didn't work out as well as he had hoped but if our guys knock down shots, we have a much better chance at beating a team that is better than us. Until we get the talent and size to compete with teams like the Lakers and the Celtics, speedball or smallball (or w/e you want to call it) actually gives us a decent shot at competing in these games.

did u watch Turiaf's defense on Aldridge last night? he shut him down in the 2nd half... u don't think he would have been more effective against Odom or Gasol than Shawne Williams?

especially in the first half, the Knicks' problem wasn't so much as containing Bynum and Gasol as getting their offense going. And thus Williams.

we got blown out in the second half & Turiaf couldn't find his way off the bench when Odom was destroying us on the boards... u put a big body like Turiaf on him & that might not have happened... Williams wasn't exactly shooting the lights out during that game, i have no idea why Turiaf only got 7 minutes in that game.

martin wrote:

TMS wrote:

martin wrote:

TMS wrote:

s3231 wrote:Against a team like Portland, I think Turiaf is very capable of nights like this.

As far as going up against a team like the Lakers though, I can't say I fault D'Antoni's strategy of going small because I don't think Turiaf can be as effective going up against the front-line of Gasol, Bynum, and Odom. Realizing that, D'Antoni instead added another shooter to our lineup in that game hoping that we could turn the tables and make them match up to us. I don't think you can fault Mike for that decision, it didn't work out as well as he had hoped but if our guys knock down shots, we have a much better chance at beating a team that is better than us. Until we get the talent and size to compete with teams like the Lakers and the Celtics, speedball or smallball (or w/e you want to call it) actually gives us a decent shot at competing in these games.

did u watch Turiaf's defense on Aldridge last night? he shut him down in the 2nd half... u don't think he would have been more effective against Odom or Gasol than Shawne Williams?

especially in the first half, the Knicks' problem wasn't so much as containing Bynum and Gasol as getting their offense going. And thus Williams.

we got blown out in the second half & Turiaf couldn't find his way off the bench when Odom was destroying us on the boards... u put a big body like Turiaf on him & that might not have happened... Williams wasn't exactly shooting the lights out during that game, i have no idea why Turiaf only got 7 minutes in that game.

you are literally only considering 1 aspect of the game, rebounding. The Knicks did indeed get beat on the boards. They also couldn't shoot all game, and Ronny doesn't really help out in that department.

So, the question is still this: Do the Knicks play to their strength or to the Laker's strength?

Ronny got 7 min and collected 2 fouls, so it wasn't like he was effective against the like of Pau, Bynum, Odom when he played. You have him guard Odom and he'll make Turiaf look like a clown cause he won't be able to keep up with his outside/inside/off-the-dribble game.

Also, if the Knicks' outside shooting is not going it allows the defense to clog the middle where Amare operates.... how does having Turiaf play help any of that? Cause all his man would do is drop off and help on Amare.

If you think the Knicks can beat the Lakers with rebounding and defense, please make that argument.

Sometimes it's just a bad matchup.

when you're getting out rebounded 3:2, Shannon Brown has a free lane to the basket, and no one can hit a shot then, yes, Turiaf has to get more burn

martin wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

martin wrote:

TMS wrote:

martin wrote:

TMS wrote:

s3231 wrote:Against a team like Portland, I think Turiaf is very capable of nights like this.

As far as going up against a team like the Lakers though, I can't say I fault D'Antoni's strategy of going small because I don't think Turiaf can be as effective going up against the front-line of Gasol, Bynum, and Odom. Realizing that, D'Antoni instead added another shooter to our lineup in that game hoping that we could turn the tables and make them match up to us. I don't think you can fault Mike for that decision, it didn't work out as well as he had hoped but if our guys knock down shots, we have a much better chance at beating a team that is better than us. Until we get the talent and size to compete with teams like the Lakers and the Celtics, speedball or smallball (or w/e you want to call it) actually gives us a decent shot at competing in these games.

did u watch Turiaf's defense on Aldridge last night? he shut him down in the 2nd half... u don't think he would have been more effective against Odom or Gasol than Shawne Williams?

especially in the first half, the Knicks' problem wasn't so much as containing Bynum and Gasol as getting their offense going. And thus Williams.

we got blown out in the second half & Turiaf couldn't find his way off the bench when Odom was destroying us on the boards... u put a big body like Turiaf on him & that might not have happened... Williams wasn't exactly shooting the lights out during that game, i have no idea why Turiaf only got 7 minutes in that game.

you are literally only considering 1 aspect of the game, rebounding. The Knicks did indeed get beat on the boards. They also couldn't shoot all game, and Ronny doesn't really help out in that department.

So, the question is still this: Do the Knicks play to their strength or to the Laker's strength?

Ronny got 7 min and collected 2 fouls, so it wasn't like he was effective against the like of Pau, Bynum, Odom when he played. You have him guard Odom and he'll make Turiaf look like a clown cause he won't be able to keep up with his outside/inside/off-the-dribble game.

Also, if the Knicks' outside shooting is not going it allows the defense to clog the middle where Amare operates.... how does having Turiaf play help any of that? Cause all his man would do is drop off and help on Amare.

If you think the Knicks can beat the Lakers with rebounding and defense, please make that argument.

Sometimes it's just a bad matchup.

when you're getting out rebounded 3:2, Shannon Brown has a free lane to the basket, and no one can hit a shot then, yes, Turiaf has to get more burn

the embarrassing thing for Turiaf was that Shannon Brown was his cover on the play the had him dunking with a free lane to the basket... and he missed it.

So again, was Turiaf doing his job?

not well, no, because he did pick up quick fouls. no one played particularly well.

I will say this though. I am not a fan of changing up what you do and have done all year on the fly because the competition is tough. Shawne Williams getting his first start against the Lakers is ridiculous. I don't think that's "playing to our strengths." I see that as an immediate concession that something needs to be drastically changed in order to have a chance to win.

Say what you will about Turiaf doing his job, but that's something that the team has done before and it worked. What, he hasn't earned the right to pick the play he exhibited in 7 minutes?

TMS wrote:

s3231 wrote:Against a team like Portland, I think Turiaf is very capable of nights like this.

As far as going up against a team like the Lakers though, I can't say I fault D'Antoni's strategy of going small because I don't think Turiaf can be as effective going up against the front-line of Gasol, Bynum, and Odom. Realizing that, D'Antoni instead added another shooter to our lineup in that game hoping that we could turn the tables and make them match up to us. I don't think you can fault Mike for that decision, it didn't work out as well as he had hoped but if our guys knock down shots, we have a much better chance at beating a team that is better than us. Until we get the talent and size to compete with teams like the Lakers and the Celtics, speedball or smallball (or w/e you want to call it) actually gives us a decent shot at competing in these games.

did u watch Turiaf's defense on Aldridge last night? he shut him down in the 2nd half... u don't think he would have been more effective against Odom or Gasol than Shawne Williams?

I did watch and Turiaf played great D. Aldridge isn't Gasol though and it's a completely different situation than going up against the Lakers where you not only have to pay attention to Pau, but also to Bynum and/or Odom. Even if you start Turiaf, you are going to get beat inside when playing the Lakers and Mike realized this.

We can go back and forth and question whether or not Turiaf would have been more effective than Shawne Williams (looking back, yes, he probably would have considering Shawne didn't play well) but we most likely still lose that game even with Turiaf starting. If Shawne played as he normally does (aka hits his threes) and our shooters are on their game, then D'Antoni looks like a genius because the floor opens up and we become very tough to stop. This was a big reason why we were able to compete with Boston when we played them at home. D'Antoni took a gamble and it didn't pay off but I can't blame him for the risk he took. I don't think we have the bigs to beat these elite teams playing the "traditional" way.

TMS wrote:

s3231 wrote:

TMS wrote:

s3231 wrote:Against a team like Portland, I think Turiaf is very capable of nights like this.

As far as going up against a team like the Lakers though, I can't say I fault D'Antoni's strategy of going small because I don't think Turiaf can be as effective going up against the front-line of Gasol, Bynum, and Odom. Realizing that, D'Antoni instead added another shooter to our lineup in that game hoping that we could turn the tables and make them match up to us. I don't think you can fault Mike for that decision, it didn't work out as well as he had hoped but if our guys knock down shots, we have a much better chance at beating a team that is better than us. Until we get the talent and size to compete with teams like the Lakers and the Celtics, speedball or smallball (or w/e you want to call it) actually gives us a decent shot at competing in these games.

did u watch Turiaf's defense on Aldridge last night? he shut him down in the 2nd half... u don't think he would have been more effective against Odom or Gasol than Shawne Williams?

I did watch and Turiaf played great D. Aldridge isn't Gasol though and it's a completely different situation than going up against the Lakers where you not only have to pay attention to Pau, but also to Bynum and/or Odom. Even if you start Turiaf, you are going to get beat inside when playing the Lakers and Mike realized this.

We can go back and forth and question whether or not Turiaf would have been more effective than Shawne Williams (looking back, yes, he probably would have considering Shawne didn't play well) but we most likely still lose that game even with Turiaf starting. If Shawne played as he normally does (aka hits his threes) and our shooters are on their game, then D'Antoni looks like a genius because the floor opens up and we become very tough to stop. This was a big reason why we were able to compete with Boston when we played them at home. D'Antoni took a gamble and it didn't pay off but I can't blame him for the risk he took. I don't think we have the bigs to beat these elite teams playing the "traditional" way.

i agree w/u i don't think we really match up to the Lakers regardless if Turiaf plays or not... just saying 7 minutes of run for our best low post defender is kinda curious when you're playing against a team with 3 bigs like Gasol, Bynum & Odom.

My thoughts is that Knicks did not have a good shooting night and Lakers did not respect any of our perimeter players so they crashed the boards.