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If you dont play Turiaf against the Lakers--then what is his value here?
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BRIGGS
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1/10/2011  9:27 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/10/2011  9:28 AM
I know he hasnt been good and turned down shots the last few games 4-2 doesnt exactly get it done. But this is our weak area and I think he shouldve started and played 20 minutes. We dont want to get over -reliant on 3. I understand about spreading the floor but you get do that just as well with a C who plays smart--a guy who is more of an opportunistic type scorer like Turiaf yet can score when needed and big enough to rebound and defend against true 7 footers. Having 4 perimeter shooters --one including amare is sufficient if you haev someone in there to clean up misses. Also no team can accept getting pounded on the boards--for the most part we have held our own--but against elite teams--we dont have the extra horse power upfront.
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Vmart
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1/10/2011  9:34 AM
Amare looked real small last night. But that is what MDA is all about. MDA adjusted to the Lakers and the Lakers don't have to adjust. No reason Williams should have started.
martin
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1/10/2011  9:42 AM
Knicks weren't hitting from the outside so the Lakers could concentrate on Amare a little more than normal... and do you really think that the Knicks should have brought Turiaf in?

How would that have helped the spacing exactly where Amare operates? Cause Turiafs guys was just sinking towards the middle. Was Turiaf slowing down Bynum or Gasol?

Also, do you remember that big old dunk Shannon Brown had during the first half where no one challenged him? That was Turiaf's mistake; he forgot to rotate and just pointed a finger ala Wince Carter as if someone else should have been there.

Dude has 2 fouls in 7 minutes and I think at least one of them was kinda stupid. And if he keeps passing the ball away when he is 8 feet from the basket and no one between he and rim, what good is he?

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Vmart
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1/10/2011  9:51 AM
martin wrote:Knicks weren't hitting from the outside so the Lakers could concentrate on Amare a little more than normal... and do you really think that the Knicks should have brought Turiaf in?

How would that have helped the spacing exactly where Amare operates? Cause Turiafs guys was just sinking towards the middle. Was Turiaf slowing down Bynum or Gasol?

Also, do you remember that big old dunk Shannon Brown had during the first half where no one challenged him? That was Turiaf's mistake; he forgot to rotate and just pointed a finger ala Wince Carter as if someone else should have been there.

Dude has 2 fouls in 7 minutes and I think at least one of them was kinda stupid. And if he keeps passing the ball away when he is 8 feet from the basket and no one between he and rim, what good is he?

Dude when Lamar Odom looks like Wilt Chamberlain yeah they should have brought Turiaff in and kept him in there. Should have given Mozgov more run. Big is a Big and we needed to go big. The lack of trust MDA has in the center position just to whimsical for my taste. Look at Amare the man was getting man handled by two trees and Odoms. This small ball shyt ain't gonna work vs elite teams.

martin
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1/10/2011  9:55 AM
Vmart wrote:
martin wrote:Knicks weren't hitting from the outside so the Lakers could concentrate on Amare a little more than normal... and do you really think that the Knicks should have brought Turiaf in?

How would that have helped the spacing exactly where Amare operates? Cause Turiafs guys was just sinking towards the middle. Was Turiaf slowing down Bynum or Gasol?

Also, do you remember that big old dunk Shannon Brown had during the first half where no one challenged him? That was Turiaf's mistake; he forgot to rotate and just pointed a finger ala Wince Carter as if someone else should have been there.

Dude has 2 fouls in 7 minutes and I think at least one of them was kinda stupid. And if he keeps passing the ball away when he is 8 feet from the basket and no one between he and rim, what good is he?

Dude when Lamar Odom looks like Wilt Chamberlain yeah they should have brought Turiaff in and kept him in there. Should have given Mozgov more run. Big is a Big and we needed to go big. The lack of trust MDA has in the center position just to whimsical for my taste. Look at Amare the man was getting man handled by two trees and Odoms. This small ball shyt ain't gonna work vs elite teams.

I know. It's why all of my trade and Plan B scenario's include trying to get the likes of Nene or DeAndre Jordan and have only recently involved Melo. Why do you keep focusing and saying that trading for Melo is the only way to win a championship?

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MS
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1/10/2011  9:55 AM
Poor coaching last night. Turiaf needed to start the game. The matchups weren't good. And we were getting hammered on the boards all night as we always do.

He is too ****ing stubborn to just use the matchups.

GustavBahler
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1/10/2011  9:55 AM
Vmart wrote:
martin wrote:Knicks weren't hitting from the outside so the Lakers could concentrate on Amare a little more than normal... and do you really think that the Knicks should have brought Turiaf in?

How would that have helped the spacing exactly where Amare operates? Cause Turiafs guys was just sinking towards the middle. Was Turiaf slowing down Bynum or Gasol?

Also, do you remember that big old dunk Shannon Brown had during the first half where no one challenged him? That was Turiaf's mistake; he forgot to rotate and just pointed a finger ala Wince Carter as if someone else should have been there.

Dude has 2 fouls in 7 minutes and I think at least one of them was kinda stupid. And if he keeps passing the ball away when he is 8 feet from the basket and no one between he and rim, what good is he?

Dude when Lamar Odom looks like Wilt Chamberlain yeah they should have brought Turiaff in and kept him in there. Should have given Mozgov more run. Big is a Big and we needed to go big. The lack of trust MDA has in the center position just to whimsical for my taste. Look at Amare the man was getting man handled by two trees and Odoms. This small ball shyt ain't gonna work vs elite teams.

Sure won't work in the playoffs. I don't know what Walsh is going to do at the trade deadline but if he doesn't get another big I hope D'Antoni gives Mozgov more PT. I don't see the Knicks getting past the first round when one guy like Odom can out rebound 3 Knicks without leaving the ground.

BRIGGS
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1/10/2011  9:58 AM
martin wrote:Knicks weren't hitting from the outside so the Lakers could concentrate on Amare a little more than normal... and do you really think that the Knicks should have brought Turiaf in?

How would that have helped the spacing exactly where Amare operates? Cause Turiafs guys was just sinking towards the middle. Was Turiaf slowing down Bynum or Gasol?

Also, do you remember that big old dunk Shannon Brown had during the first half where no one challenged him? That was Turiaf's mistake; he forgot to rotate and just pointed a finger ala Wince Carter as if someone else should have been there.

Dude has 2 fouls in 7 minutes and I think at least one of them was kinda stupid. And if he keeps passing the ball away when he is 8 feet from the basket and no one between he and rim, what good is he?

martin I agree Turiaf is no second option but for the Knicks--the only option unless they allow mosgov to play C which they will not. We need a skill PF like a Thompson who can rebound and use his 6-10 245 or next year we need a 6-11 260 pound true 5 man thgrough fa. This is where Donnie has to say--I agree with you all the way until the 5--we need somoen who can to other things that are vital and give us quality size. Your e right about amare he is probably 6-8.5

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JohnWallace44
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1/10/2011  10:28 AM
Mike's trying to get the other team to match up with his squad. I don't know if that's really possible with the LakeShow.

When it comes to matching up with the Lakers, we'd have to acquire a Camby type player who can fit on the team, but can also bang with those types of bigs.

I'm starting to wonder if you could get Josh Smith as well. Atlanta has so much salary to cover and we have so many cheap wings. Smith could have neutralized Odom at least, who was a major problem last night.

Realistically though, the Knicks management is probably thinking, who cares if we can't match up with the lakers. Kobe's got no cartilage so they're not going to be a factor for long and they're in the other conference and there's no other team like that.

Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
knicks1248
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1/10/2011  10:46 AM
Maybe you guys need to watch more of the MDA show on MSG, there's no way in hell mike will every match up against another team, he always wants the opposing team to match up against him no matter what.

Our strength is running and guning, if our shot are falling from deep, were going to have a problem most nights no matter who we play..MDA has said over and over how he wants a PF that can shot the 3 ball, he'll take a center that can rebound and has good hands, but he's not going to go for no center like Jordan who can shoot beyond 2ft.

Didn't make no sense to start ronnie when Odom plays like a guard and is just to versitile to match up..

ES
bernard
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1/10/2011  10:57 AM
Playing big, talented teams like the Lakers, Celts, Spurs, Orlando presents challenges for us. We can try to match their size so we don't get mauled so badly inside, or we can try to outgun them by going small.

Given our talent level, I think our odds are better with Option 2. If we run Turiaf and/or Moz, we know we're at a disadvantage. Those guys have to play way over their heads just to play their opponents to anything close to a standstill. If we go with our best players, we have a shot at having a good shooting night and just out running and gunning their big guys (we did it against the Spurs).

Still, this all points to what we all acknowledge is our biggest weakness. We need more size with talent. I hate to see these big teams shooting lay-ups and put-backs while we're busting it to get open 20 footers and 3's. It's not a great formula for winning a high percentage of these games. It's probably better than our current alternative -- We contest their post-ups a little better and give up a fewer put backs while we don't even get the open 20 footers and 3's.

All that said, when the shots aren't falling, should MDA adapt mid game? He's shown that's not his way. He believes in the system and doesn't go away from it even though he knows sometimes the guys will have off nights. I'm OK with that in theory, but not sure how I'll feel when/if we're playing meaningful games against these big teams and our speed/quickness isn't making the difference on a given night.

TheGame
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1/10/2011  11:27 AM
I don't know why we have not signed Earl Barron. The dude had the jumpshot necessary to work in MDA's offense and he was a solid rebounder and serviceable defender. We really need a 7 footer on the team that MDA is willing to play.
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Paladin55
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1/10/2011  11:28 AM
martin wrote:Knicks weren't hitting from the outside so the Lakers could concentrate on Amare a little more than normal... and do you really think that the Knicks should have brought Turiaf in?

How would that have helped the spacing exactly where Amare operates? Cause Turiafs guys was just sinking towards the middle. Was Turiaf slowing down Bynum or Gasol?

Also, do you remember that big old dunk Shannon Brown had during the first half where no one challenged him? That was Turiaf's mistake; he forgot to rotate and just pointed a finger ala Wince Carter as if someone else should have been there.

Dude has 2 fouls in 7 minutes and I think at least one of them was kinda stupid. And if he keeps passing the ball away when he is 8 feet from the basket and no one between he and rim, what good is he?


You sure on that one- looked like Williams or even Walker could have helped out, too.

I don't recall offhand which guard had Brown- was there a screen where Turiaf should have switched off, or did a guard do a poor job fighting through screen?

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martin
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1/10/2011  11:32 AM
Paladin55 wrote:
martin wrote:Knicks weren't hitting from the outside so the Lakers could concentrate on Amare a little more than normal... and do you really think that the Knicks should have brought Turiaf in?

How would that have helped the spacing exactly where Amare operates? Cause Turiafs guys was just sinking towards the middle. Was Turiaf slowing down Bynum or Gasol?

Also, do you remember that big old dunk Shannon Brown had during the first half where no one challenged him? That was Turiaf's mistake; he forgot to rotate and just pointed a finger ala Wince Carter as if someone else should have been there.

Dude has 2 fouls in 7 minutes and I think at least one of them was kinda stupid. And if he keeps passing the ball away when he is 8 feet from the basket and no one between he and rim, what good is he?


You sure on that one- looked like Williams or even Walker could have helped out, too.

I don't recall offhand which guard had Brown- was there a screen where Turiaf should have switched off, or did a guard do a poor job fighting through screen?

It was Walker, and yes, Turiaf should have switched off. Walker was picked.

I would have to say that the play happened very quick and I was watching the weak side guys, and although perhaps any of those guys could have/should helped, I am not sure they were in a position to do so. Realistically, and I could be completely wrong here, Turiaf was the only guy in position to help on that play.

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Paladin55
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1/10/2011  11:44 AM
martin wrote:
Paladin55 wrote:
martin wrote:Knicks weren't hitting from the outside so the Lakers could concentrate on Amare a little more than normal... and do you really think that the Knicks should have brought Turiaf in?

How would that have helped the spacing exactly where Amare operates? Cause Turiafs guys was just sinking towards the middle. Was Turiaf slowing down Bynum or Gasol?

Also, do you remember that big old dunk Shannon Brown had during the first half where no one challenged him? That was Turiaf's mistake; he forgot to rotate and just pointed a finger ala Wince Carter as if someone else should have been there.

Dude has 2 fouls in 7 minutes and I think at least one of them was kinda stupid. And if he keeps passing the ball away when he is 8 feet from the basket and no one between he and rim, what good is he?


You sure on that one- looked like Williams or even Walker could have helped out, too.

I don't recall offhand which guard had Brown- was there a screen where Turiaf should have switched off, or did a guard do a poor job fighting through screen?

It was Walker, and yes, Turiaf should have switched off. Walker was picked.

I would have to say that the play happened very quick and I was watching the weak side guys, and although perhaps any of those guys could have/should helped, I am not sure they were in a position to do so. Realistically, and I could be completely wrong here, Turiaf was the only guy in position to help on that play.


I remember it a bit, but don't remember it exactly. I do recall that Williams was under the basket, and made no attempt to block the shot, which surprised me a bit, since I thought he had time to get over for a block.

I do remember Turiaf pointing, but don't recall if much before that.

I also have to say that Amare did not seem to be into mixing it up down low yesterday. I recall one play in the second half- perhaps the play where Bynum dunked over him- where Amare backed off before Bynum had the ball, allowing him to easily get position and finish on the play.

I know he should not be having to guard people like Bynum down low, and that he did not want to play center this year, but he could have made his life a lot easier by dealing with Bynum before he established himself down low.

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martin
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1/10/2011  11:49 AM
Paladin55 wrote:I also have to say that Amare did not seem to be into mixing it up down low yesterday. I recall one play in the second half- perhaps the play where Bynum dunked over him- where Amare backed off before Bynum had the ball, allowing him to easily get position and finish on the play.

I know he should not be having to guard people like Bynum down low, and that he did not want to play center this year, but he could have made his life a lot easier by dealing with Bynum before he established himself down low.

Yeah, Amare gets sealed in the low post too easily. gotta improve that. And let's get someone else to defend C's.

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LivingLegend
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1/10/2011  12:00 PM
BRIGGS wrote:I know he hasnt been good and turned down shots the last few games 4-2 doesnt exactly get it done. But this is our weak area and I think he shouldve started and played 20 minutes. We dont want to get over -reliant on 3. I understand about spreading the floor but you get do that just as well with a C who plays smart--a guy who is more of an opportunistic type scorer like Turiaf yet can score when needed and big enough to rebound and defend against true 7 footers. Having 4 perimeter shooters --one including amare is sufficient if you haev someone in there to clean up misses. Also no team can accept getting pounded on the boards--for the most part we have held our own--but against elite teams--we dont have the extra horse power upfront.

This is what you get with D'Antoni and it leads you to wonder what BIG guy other than Amare would D'Antoni give minutes to.

I know names like Dalembert, D. Jordan, B. Lopez, etc have all been thrown around but we have to ask -- would Mike just bench them.

That said --- everyone clamoring for D'Antoni to play BIG --- has to remember that in doing so -- you lose much of the spacing and perimeter shooting that makes us dangerous (#1 in points scored) and allows Amare to be who he is. Once you start adding defensive minded centers -- you improve in some areas but the offense may be hurt.

I don't buy that this system and playing small can't work --- I just think we need more pieces and those pieces may be smaller pieces that add more firepower rather than BIG pieces that add length and bulk. We may be bettor off adding more firepower off the bench....rather than chase centers that Mike won't play.

NYKBocker
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1/10/2011  12:29 PM
martin wrote:
Paladin55 wrote:I also have to say that Amare did not seem to be into mixing it up down low yesterday. I recall one play in the second half- perhaps the play where Bynum dunked over him- where Amare backed off before Bynum had the ball, allowing him to easily get position and finish on the play.

I know he should not be having to guard people like Bynum down low, and that he did not want to play center this year, but he could have made his life a lot easier by dealing with Bynum before he established himself down low.

Yeah, Amare gets sealed in the low post too easily. gotta improve that. And let's get someone else to defend C's.

That is the only wart in Amare's game. He is not a very good primary post defender. As a post help defender he is awesome but ask him to body up a post player and you see something like last night. He really needed to guard Gasol last night and switch with Shawne Williams. He can then concentrate on being a help defender against Bynum. Bynum is not a very good passer and doubling on him would not have hurt us.

Nalod
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1/10/2011  12:41 PM
Maybe Turiaf was hurting? Stomach, Knee swelling?

If he was not up to his game and maybe a reason?

We are not elite yet. We can play most teams. If we go to finals against Lakers we are toast.

But if Bynum gets hurt, Lamar eats too much Candy, Ron Ron leaves his meds home, Kobe's finger acts up and Pau gets fatigued who knows?

JohnWallace44
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1/10/2011  12:44 PM
MikeD is basically thinking; if I'm going to the dance and I'm not the tall guy with the classic good looks then I'm not going to try to compete with them on their level. I'm going to spike my hair, wear my shirt untucked and try to get laid by being the against-the-grain character in the room.

Playing Turiaf against Odom/Gasol/Bynum... you can do that to try to look like the captain of the football team, but you know at the end of the night you're not going home with the hot chick that way.

Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
If you dont play Turiaf against the Lakers--then what is his value here?

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