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nixluva
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1/2/2011  4:20 PM
TD has seemed to have turned a corner in his development! The last few games he's been doing more playmaking and looked much smarter overall on the court. His mistakes are diminishing and his good plays are increasing. I like what i'm seeing from him to be honest. He's not all the way there, but I think he's really actually gettinG better.

If you ignore stats and just look at purely PG decisions. TD just seems to my eye to be playing more like a PG than a SG. The bench has been better the last 2 games and it's due to TD holding the team together from the point.
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1/2/2011  4:24 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/2/2011  4:29 PM
td is an iron man for sure he plays through pain as good as larry johnson does. it is always good to have a player that physically reliable. he is not a floor general but he has finally been promoted to floor colonel. keep this up and i will have to stop calling him toney tunnelvision.
nixluva
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1/2/2011  4:27 PM
The game may finally be slowing down for him. He's just clearly making better decisions with the ball. His PnR is there, but he's also seeing the floor a bit better. He seems to be keeping his head up more often. He's always going to be a Combo guard, but to the degree that he can run the point it's only gonna help us win games. The thing is that you have to be a scoring threat to play the point in Mike's system, so that's good that he can score, but he has to think PG 1st and he's starting to find a groove it seems.
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1/2/2011  4:32 PM
nixluva wrote:The game may finally be slowing down for him. He's just clearly making better decisions with the ball. His PnR is there, but he's also seeing the floor a bit better. He seems to be keeping his head up more often. He's always going to be a Combo guard, but to the degree that he can run the point it's only gonna help us win games. The thing is that you have to be a scoring threat to play the point in Mike's system, so that's good that he can score, but he has to think PG 1st and he's starting to find a groove it seems.

i like how he took the question about the knicks looking for a backup point guard to felton. pure confidence. plus i like how he answered the search for his replacement by stepping up his game. he right now is making donnie's life a little easier.
nixluva
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1/2/2011  4:36 PM
TD had 7 asts, 2 stls and only 1 TO!!! that is the kind of game you have to be ecstatic about. That is a guy playing like a PG. If not for the other guys missing shots and fumbling the ball the stat line could've been even better. But it's not about the stats is about his style of play and confidence level running the team. I just hope his shoulder isn't going to stop him from having a great year the rest of the way.
martin
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1/2/2011  5:01 PM
Best game of the season.
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nixluva
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1/2/2011  5:07 PM
I wonder why TD doesn't try to wear some kind of sleeve over the shoulder. I've seen other guys in the NBA wear support sleeves in the past and I wonder if that would help?
Sangfroid
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1/2/2011  5:59 PM
nixluva wrote:I wonder why TD doesn't try to wear some kind of sleeve over the shoulder. I've seen other guys in the NBA wear support sleeves in the past and I wonder if that would help?

His injury looks like it involves the extension of his right arm. Don't think that sleeve will help.

"We are playing a game. We are playing at not playing a game..."
SupremeCommander
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1/2/2011  6:37 PM
I don't really agree with this. I am a big TD supporter (go back to those threads about which young Knick would have the most impact over his career--I said TD) but I thought his shot selection leaves a lot to be desired. A lot of the time his shot disrupts the flow of the offense. It also seems like he is either in "shoot" or "pass" mode when he has the ball, that he can't yet react to what the defense gives him. There is still a lot to be desired with TD and I'm kind of confused with a praise thread for his development because I've found his play to be incredibly frustrating
DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
scoshin
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1/2/2011  6:46 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:I don't really agree with this. I am a big TD supporter (go back to those threads about which young Knick would have the most impact over his career--I said TD) but I thought his shot selection leaves a lot to be desired. A lot of the time his shot disrupts the flow of the offense. It also seems like he is either in "shoot" or "pass" mode when he has the ball, that he can't yet react to what the defense gives him. There is still a lot to be desired with TD and I'm kind of confused with a praise thread for his development because I've found his play to be incredibly frustrating

Yeah, whenever I watch him play, you can almost see when Toney has "decided to shoot" before he even launches. He predetermines plays, which is not a good attribute for a "point" guard.

However, there are times where we should appreciate the positives that Toney brings, instead of always harping on the negative. For a backup point, you gotta love how he takes care of the ball. He isn't careless with the ball and has a solid handle. He just has awful shot selection.
SupremeCommander
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1/2/2011  6:55 PM
scoshin wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:I don't really agree with this. I am a big TD supporter (go back to those threads about which young Knick would have the most impact over his career--I said TD) but I thought his shot selection leaves a lot to be desired. A lot of the time his shot disrupts the flow of the offense. It also seems like he is either in "shoot" or "pass" mode when he has the ball, that he can't yet react to what the defense gives him. There is still a lot to be desired with TD and I'm kind of confused with a praise thread for his development because I've found his play to be incredibly frustrating

Yeah, whenever I watch him play, you can almost see when Toney has "decided to shoot" before he even launches. He predetermines plays, which is not a good attribute for a "point" guard.

However, there are times where we should appreciate the positives that Toney brings, instead of always harping on the negative. For a backup point, you gotta love how he takes care of the ball. He isn't careless with the ball and has a solid handle. He just has awful shot selection.

I agree with everything your saying... I was lucky enough to go to the Denver, Boston, Miami game block and thought he performed the worst of all the Knicks. I'm probably being a little too hard on him as a result.

He had a good game today as a guard, but I wasn't impressed with him as the offense's initiator. When he decided he'd pass he found an open man today and they hit their shot. But I do think he has a long way to go to develop the way I think he can.

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
Finestrg
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1/2/2011  7:05 PM
nixluva wrote:TD has seemed to have turned a corner in his development! The last few games he's been doing more playmaking and looked much smarter overall on the court. His mistakes are diminishing and his good plays are increasing. I like what i'm seeing from him to be honest. He's not all the way there, but I think he's really actually gettinG better.

If you ignore stats and just look at purely PG decisions. TD just seems to my eye to be playing more like a PG than a SG. The bench has been better the last 2 games and it's due to TD holding the team together from the point.

I agree, he has been better with the ball in his hand making plays..Good call..No question. Here's hoping it continues to get even better.
nixluva
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1/2/2011  7:30 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:
scoshin wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:I don't really agree with this. I am a big TD supporter (go back to those threads about which young Knick would have the most impact over his career--I said TD) but I thought his shot selection leaves a lot to be desired. A lot of the time his shot disrupts the flow of the offense. It also seems like he is either in "shoot" or "pass" mode when he has the ball, that he can't yet react to what the defense gives him. There is still a lot to be desired with TD and I'm kind of confused with a praise thread for his development because I've found his play to be incredibly frustrating

Yeah, whenever I watch him play, you can almost see when Toney has "decided to shoot" before he even launches. He predetermines plays, which is not a good attribute for a "point" guard.

However, there are times where we should appreciate the positives that Toney brings, instead of always harping on the negative. For a backup point, you gotta love how he takes care of the ball. He isn't careless with the ball and has a solid handle. He just has awful shot selection.

I agree with everything your saying... I was lucky enough to go to the Denver, Boston, Miami game block and thought he performed the worst of all the Knicks. I'm probably being a little too hard on him as a result.

He had a good game today as a guard, but I wasn't impressed with him as the offense's initiator. When he decided he'd pass he found an open man today and they hit their shot. But I do think he has a long way to go to develop the way I think he can.

Baby Step man, baby steps. TD has come a long way since the start of the year when he was shooting like it was the wild west! You have to make your judgment based on how far he's come and it seems sometimes we don't keep those things in perspective. TD still struggles with the decision making, but today wasn't one of his bad days. He kept the bad shots to a MINIMUM and he made plays for his TEAMMATES! Man that's HUGE! He's been getting better at setting up his teammates over the course of the last few games it's been very noticeable.

He has a very too chemistry with his fellow bench mates now. Turiaf and TD in PnR is very clean and effective. He's being more patient too. I'm not expecting him to never take a selfish shot here and there. All guards will do that from time to time. So long as he's making plays and setting up his teammates well and he was doing that today.
SupremeCommander
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1/2/2011  9:48 PM
nixluva wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
scoshin wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:I don't really agree with this. I am a big TD supporter (go back to those threads about which young Knick would have the most impact over his career--I said TD) but I thought his shot selection leaves a lot to be desired. A lot of the time his shot disrupts the flow of the offense. It also seems like he is either in "shoot" or "pass" mode when he has the ball, that he can't yet react to what the defense gives him. There is still a lot to be desired with TD and I'm kind of confused with a praise thread for his development because I've found his play to be incredibly frustrating

Yeah, whenever I watch him play, you can almost see when Toney has "decided to shoot" before he even launches. He predetermines plays, which is not a good attribute for a "point" guard.

However, there are times where we should appreciate the positives that Toney brings, instead of always harping on the negative. For a backup point, you gotta love how he takes care of the ball. He isn't careless with the ball and has a solid handle. He just has awful shot selection.

I agree with everything your saying... I was lucky enough to go to the Denver, Boston, Miami game block and thought he performed the worst of all the Knicks. I'm probably being a little too hard on him as a result.

He had a good game today as a guard, but I wasn't impressed with him as the offense's initiator. When he decided he'd pass he found an open man today and they hit their shot. But I do think he has a long way to go to develop the way I think he can.

Baby Step man, baby steps. TD has come a long way since the start of the year when he was shooting like it was the wild west! You have to make your judgment based on how far he's come and it seems sometimes we don't keep those things in perspective. TD still struggles with the decision making, but today wasn't one of his bad days. He kept the bad shots to a MINIMUM and he made plays for his TEAMMATES! Man that's HUGE! He's been getting better at setting up his teammates over the course of the last few games it's been very noticeable.

He has a very too chemistry with his fellow bench mates now. Turiaf and TD in PnR is very clean and effective. He's being more patient too. I'm not expecting him to never take a selfish shot here and there. All guards will do that from time to time. So long as he's making plays and setting up his teammates well and he was doing that today.

I want him to get to be able to dribble up court and either pass or shoot depending upon what the defense gives him, instead of what he does, which is makes up his mind that he'll pass or shoot before the possession even begins. I know that's not easy, and a true young point, Darren Collison, couldn't even get that right all the time today. I know that's a lot to ask but I can't call TD a point or say he's on the track to becoming a true point when he can't read and react at all yet.

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
nixluva
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1/2/2011  10:01 PM
SupremeCommander wrote:
nixluva wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
scoshin wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:I don't really agree with this. I am a big TD supporter (go back to those threads about which young Knick would have the most impact over his career--I said TD) but I thought his shot selection leaves a lot to be desired. A lot of the time his shot disrupts the flow of the offense. It also seems like he is either in "shoot" or "pass" mode when he has the ball, that he can't yet react to what the defense gives him. There is still a lot to be desired with TD and I'm kind of confused with a praise thread for his development because I've found his play to be incredibly frustrating

Yeah, whenever I watch him play, you can almost see when Toney has "decided to shoot" before he even launches. He predetermines plays, which is not a good attribute for a "point" guard.

However, there are times where we should appreciate the positives that Toney brings, instead of always harping on the negative. For a backup point, you gotta love how he takes care of the ball. He isn't careless with the ball and has a solid handle. He just has awful shot selection.

I agree with everything your saying... I was lucky enough to go to the Denver, Boston, Miami game block and thought he performed the worst of all the Knicks. I'm probably being a little too hard on him as a result.

He had a good game today as a guard, but I wasn't impressed with him as the offense's initiator. When he decided he'd pass he found an open man today and they hit their shot. But I do think he has a long way to go to develop the way I think he can.

Baby Step man, baby steps. TD has come a long way since the start of the year when he was shooting like it was the wild west! You have to make your judgment based on how far he's come and it seems sometimes we don't keep those things in perspective. TD still struggles with the decision making, but today wasn't one of his bad days. He kept the bad shots to a MINIMUM and he made plays for his TEAMMATES! Man that's HUGE! He's been getting better at setting up his teammates over the course of the last few games it's been very noticeable.

He has a very too chemistry with his fellow bench mates now. Turiaf and TD in PnR is very clean and effective. He's being more patient too. I'm not expecting him to never take a selfish shot here and there. All guards will do that from time to time. So long as he's making plays and setting up his teammates well and he was doing that today.

I want him to get to be able to dribble up court and either pass or shoot depending upon what the defense gives him, instead of what he does, which is makes up his mind that he'll pass or shoot before the possession even begins. I know that's not easy, and a true young point, Darren Collison, couldn't even get that right all the time today. I know that's a lot to ask but I can't call TD a point or say he's on the track to becoming a true point when he can't read and react at all yet.

Well it's the most difficult thing to master, especially if you haven't been doing it and even more so when you have so many options on the kind of quick hitting plays that we run. It actually helps him that the decisions are pretty cut and dry. Most of the time you can go right to a PnR if in doubt and that presents a certain familiar set of options that become easy to choose from as you get more and more reps in this offense. The tough thing is when you have to run the other plays and make reads and "audibles" cuz the D did something you didn't expect. All in all we have to accept that he's not a real PG and we only need him to be able to execute the plays. I'm not going to expect him to be as crafty as a CP3 or Nash. Just get the team in position and run the plays. Even if it's a basic version of the play. EXECUTE. That's all that matters. He's been doing that a lot more often.
knicks1248
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1/2/2011  10:13 PM
He's definitely settled down, but still needs to pick his head up and see the floor...Also needs to take advantage of his speed wwhich he doesn't do enough..
ES
TMS
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1/3/2011  10:32 AM
i dunno but i didn't see all that much out of TD last night to think he turned some corner... he still looked unsure of what to do w/the ball once he had it... he was the beneficiary of some very good shotmaking by Amare after he passed the ball off to him in coverage... i didn't see TD create for his teammates all that often... he made a nice 3 point shot in crunchtime out of the corner baseline, but he also almost caused a horrible T/O in the closing seconds after Turiaf had made a huge block of a shot & pulled down the rebound... TD got the ball from Turiaf & for some completely inexplicable reason he passes the ball right back to Turiaf underneath our basket... Turiaf wasn't expecting the ball back & the ball hits him in the grille & the Pacers get the ball back & put up another shot attempt that they miss & Turiaf pulls down the rebound again... i have no idea wtf TD could have been thinking about on that exchange... ur the damn PG, when u get the ball from your C, u take the ball & dribble it up the court & set up the offense... u don't pass it back to your C on your own end of the floor.

i still love the defense he plays & he makes shots at times, but he's also gotta work on his shot selection & decision making.

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rvwink
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1/3/2011  11:07 AM
"i dunno but i didn't see all that much out of TD last night to think he turned some corner"

The stats say that Toney had 7 assists in 29 minutes. But more telling evidence came from MDA. His playing Toney in the tight closing minutes of a game he thought he had to win says a lot imo.

How could you not see Toney's progress particularly because he clearly was looking to feed others a large number of his trips down the court in the Pacer's game. Quibbling that Toney is not yet a polished point guard is not relevant. He still has the right to be a work in progress imo based on his not playing point guard in College. I am confused why you don't think he is moving in a positive direction?
Bippity10
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1/3/2011  11:15 AM
rvwink wrote:"i dunno but i didn't see all that much out of TD last night to think he turned some corner"

The stats say that Toney had 7 assists in 29 minutes. But more telling evidence came from MDA. His playing Toney in the tight closing minutes of a game he thought he had to win says a lot imo.

How could you not see Toney's progress particularly because he clearly was looking to feed others a large number of his trips down the court in the Pacer's game. Quibbling that Toney is not yet a polished point guard is not relevant. He still has the right to be a work in progress imo based on his not playing point guard in College. I am confused why you don't think he is moving in a positive direction?

I don't think TMS said anything to out of the ordinary. I agree with TMS. I thought he played a great game last night, possibly his best as a floor leader, but he still had some brain farts that would suggest he has not yet turned this mythical corner. Let's give him 20-30 games of play like this before we declare this

I just hope that people will like me
TMS
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1/3/2011  11:15 AM
rvwink wrote:"i dunno but i didn't see all that much out of TD last night to think he turned some corner"

The stats say that Toney had 7 assists in 29 minutes. But more telling evidence came from MDA. His playing Toney in the tight closing minutes of a game he thought he had to win says a lot imo.

How could you not see Toney's progress particularly because he clearly was looking to feed others a large number of his trips down the court in the Pacer's game. Quibbling that Toney is not yet a polished point guard is not relevant. He still has the right to be a work in progress imo based on his not playing point guard in College. I am confused why you don't think he is moving in a positive direction?

yeah i know what the stats say... i also watched the game & i know on at least 2 occasions Amare bailed TD out by making a tough shot off a dish off TD made to him in coverage... this wasn't him setting up Amare for an easy bucket, it was Amare making something out of nothing... so yeah, TD got credit for the assist, but that didn't show me much of anything in terms of his ability to orchestrate an offense... i'd also like to get your take on that boneheaded exchange i described underneath our basket that almost resulted in a very costly turnover... is it quibbling to point out these things that happen during the game & only focus on the boxscore?

as for MDA trusting TD down the stretch, it's a big step in his progress i agree, but as i already pointed out i didn't see that much out of him down the stretch other than that made 3 pointer in the corner that really stood out... i don't think Landry has done anything to really be benched down the stretch of games either.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
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