Do you think the SSOL makes the Knicks better defensively?

Seems that way

Discuss...

The problem is that we give up WAY too many 2nd chance points. If we ever got the rebounding to secure the ball after we make the initial stop then you'd see this team really looking like a good defensive team. I think they do a lot of good things, but those loose balls and lack of blocking out under the hoop are what's killing this teams overall defense. We just can't seem to finish off a great defensive stand by securing the rebound.

we give up the 2nd to most attempts per game at the rim and 3rd most at less than 10 ft. we have some shot blockers so it's understandable that we are near the top in blocked shots. we are 20th in opp. fg% at the rim but 3rd best at 10 ft out thanks to those shotblockers.

while the percentages are tolerable, it still comes out to a lot of makes. sort of like free throws, it's almost irrelevant how many you make if you goto the line 40 times.

The Kicks defense is not the beneficiary of SSOL. It's just more of a desire that this team has right now because they're winning.

nixluva wrote:Despite what many think, Mike does have a defensive philosophy. It's not as in your face as some teams, but we know that he likes his teams to play the passing lanes and to try to force teams to take bad longer range shots. We also see the guards and guys on the perimeter overplay the opponents to one side and try to force them to go towards the help. This makes it easier for the help defender to come in time to get a block. We actually do get a lot of our offense off of good defense. The fact that Mike plays a lot of guys that are similar in size and ability allows us to switch very quickly when players use motion to try and get a guy open. If there's a pick you'll see a very smooth switch to make sure that we stay with the opponent.

The problem is that we give up WAY too many 2nd chance points. If we ever got the rebounding to secure the ball after we make the initial stop then you'd see this team really looking like a good defensive team. I think they do a lot of good things, but those loose balls and lack of blocking out under the hoop are what's killing this teams overall defense. We just can't seem to finish off a great defensive stand by securing the rebound.

I think the defensive philosophy you are describing is a bit of a stretch...The Knicks have added better athletes this year who are playing harder...The coach's philosophy is still to outscore the opponent, play at a pace that the opponent have difficulty keeping up with...Every coach wants the opposing team to take bad long range shots... It's really difficult to implement a sound fundamental defensive scheme when you are pushing the ball the way the Knicks are...U really can't do both...Add to that the short rotation...The Knicks' defensive problems is a lot deeper than rebounding...We see individuals putting up season & career highs at an alarming rate thus far...That should be sounding an alarm bell somewhere in the Garden...Part of the game plan against Miami was to double off Wade to help in the post...Doesn't seems like a sound plan to me..

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:Despite what many think, Mike does have a defensive philosophy. It's not as in your face as some teams, but we know that he likes his teams to play the passing lanes and to try to force teams to take bad longer range shots. We also see the guards and guys on the perimeter overplay the opponents to one side and try to force them to go towards the help. This makes it easier for the help defender to come in time to get a block. We actually do get a lot of our offense off of good defense. The fact that Mike plays a lot of guys that are similar in size and ability allows us to switch very quickly when players use motion to try and get a guy open. If there's a pick you'll see a very smooth switch to make sure that we stay with the opponent.

The problem is that we give up WAY too many 2nd chance points. If we ever got the rebounding to secure the ball after we make the initial stop then you'd see this team really looking like a good defensive team. I think they do a lot of good things, but those loose balls and lack of blocking out under the hoop are what's killing this teams overall defense. We just can't seem to finish off a great defensive stand by securing the rebound.

I think the defensive philosophy you are describing is a bit of a stretch...The Knicks have added better athletes this year who are playing harder...The coach's philosophy is still to outscore the opponent, play at a pace that the opponent have difficulty keeping up with...Every coach wants the opposing team to take bad long range shots... It's really difficult to implement a sound fundamental defensive scheme when you are pushing the ball the way the Knicks are...U really can't do both...Add to that the short rotation...The Knicks' defensive problems is a lot deeper than rebounding...We see individuals putting up season & career highs at an alarming rate thus far...That should be sounding an alarm bell somewhere in the Garden...Part of the game plan against Miami was to double off Wade to help in the post...Doesn't seems like a sound plan to me..

IT's not a stretch in fact there have been some exhaustive articles written on this very subject. It's an illusion that there isn't a defensive system. There is!

"The Suns teams under D’Antoni had the right personnel for his system. They sure played fast, but they weren’t horrid defensive teams as they were generally labeled by the media. In fact, all four of his full-season Suns teams were better defensively than the one Alvin Gentry had in the Western Conference finals this year."

When the numbers are adjusted using Defensive Rating, D'Antoni's Phoenix teams don't look all that bad defensively. 
Season	Pace	Rank	D-Rtg	Rank	PPG Allowed	Rank
2007-08	96.7	4th	108.1	16th	105.0	25th
2006-07	95.6	3rd	106.4	13th	102.9   23rd
2005-06	95.8	1st	105.8	16th	102.8	28th
2004-05	95.9	1st	107.1	17th	103.3	Last

We still have a long way to do defensively, but it's better than the last 2 years. This year we're ranked about 19th in Defensive rating. That's not terrible, but if can get it down to around 15th in the league or less then we'll be in great shape. We're always gonna give up a lot of points, but that's not the whole story.

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:Despite what many think, Mike does have a defensive philosophy. It's not as in your face as some teams, but we know that he likes his teams to play the passing lanes and to try to force teams to take bad longer range shots. We also see the guards and guys on the perimeter overplay the opponents to one side and try to force them to go towards the help. This makes it easier for the help defender to come in time to get a block. We actually do get a lot of our offense off of good defense. The fact that Mike plays a lot of guys that are similar in size and ability allows us to switch very quickly when players use motion to try and get a guy open. If there's a pick you'll see a very smooth switch to make sure that we stay with the opponent.

The problem is that we give up WAY too many 2nd chance points. If we ever got the rebounding to secure the ball after we make the initial stop then you'd see this team really looking like a good defensive team. I think they do a lot of good things, but those loose balls and lack of blocking out under the hoop are what's killing this teams overall defense. We just can't seem to finish off a great defensive stand by securing the rebound.

I think the defensive philosophy you are describing is a bit of a stretch...The Knicks have added better athletes this year who are playing harder...The coach's philosophy is still to outscore the opponent, play at a pace that the opponent have difficulty keeping up with...Every coach wants the opposing team to take bad long range shots... It's really difficult to implement a sound fundamental defensive scheme when you are pushing the ball the way the Knicks are...U really can't do both...Add to that the short rotation...The Knicks' defensive problems is a lot deeper than rebounding...We see individuals putting up season & career highs at an alarming rate thus far...That should be sounding an alarm bell somewhere in the Garden...Part of the game plan against Miami was to double off Wade to help in the post...Doesn't seems like a sound plan to me..

IT's not a stretch in fact there have been some exhaustive articles written on this very subject. It's an illusion that there isn't a defensive system. There is!

"The Suns teams under D’Antoni had the right personnel for his system. They sure played fast, but they weren’t horrid defensive teams as they were generally labeled by the media. In fact, all four of his full-season Suns teams were better defensively than the one Alvin Gentry had in the Western Conference finals this year."

When the numbers are adjusted using Defensive Rating, D'Antoni's Phoenix teams don't look all that bad defensively. 
Season	Pace	Rank	D-Rtg	Rank	PPG Allowed	Rank
2007-08	96.7	4th	108.1	16th	105.0	25th
2006-07	95.6	3rd	106.4	13th	102.9   23rd
2005-06	95.8	1st	105.8	16th	102.8	28th
2004-05	95.9	1st	107.1	17th	103.3	Last

We still have a long way to do defensively, but it's better than the last 2 years. This year we're ranked about 19th in Defensive rating. That's not terrible, but if can get it down to around 15th in the league or less then we'll be in great shape. We're always gonna give up a lot of points, but that's not the whole story.

Did you see the Knicks dropping off Wade to double the post...Could you also explain in previous years philosophy the 6' 10" player guarding the point guard at the top of the key??

fishmike wrote:Knicks are first in blocked shots, 11th in steals and 8th in opponent's turnovers. Seems that the pace in which the Knicks play and the efficiency (3rd in the NBA in PPS point per possession, 5th in FTs attempts and #1 in total scoring) are creating opportunities on the defensive end that might not be there in a more slow it down half court type system.

Do you think the SSOL makes the Knicks better defensively?

Seems that way

Discuss...

steve kerr just made fun of this on tnt. he pointed out that for the knicks this honor is a false-positive. he gave an in-game example showing how easily it is for the opposition to score on ny. its like an nfl team who leads in sacks but allows the other team to score at will.