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We Need Jamison
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martin
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1/26/2004  5:45 PM
Posted by fishmike:

Cuban has said repeatedly
a) he's not trading Jamison
b) he doesnt want Kurt Thomas

Cube says a lot of things, believe none of them.
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MaTT4281
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1/26/2004  5:47 PM
this topic is filling up pretty fast...everytime i finish typing a post, theres atleast 2 more ppl after me. Nice debate "1"
martin
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1/26/2004  5:47 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by 1:

Why isn't it a good trade? It makes sense for both teams.
why why why if your Dallas and have a PG that races up the floor and a group of frontcourt players in Walker, Jamison and Dirk that are all GREAT rebounders and run well, do you want to add two of the slowest footed forwards in the NBA??

2 reasons: Shaq. Ducan.
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Burkina Faso (Upper Volta)
1/26/2004  5:48 PM
Nelson has said that he wants a big defensive center and pf for role players. Losing Jamison would not be a big loss for them. Dallas is also looking for a backup pint guard becuase Travis Best had not been good enough and Nash is tired from playing for the Candaians.
s3231
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1/26/2004  5:50 PM
Jamison would be a very nice addition but we can't get him. You guys are talking like Kurt and Diekembe are all-stars. Jamison would definitely be a upgrade over KT, he would fit a lot better than KT does right now. As I said before, Mutombo only gives us a defensive presence, Doleac would not be a bad replacement. Yes we would lose Dikemebe's defensive presence, but we add a young athletic forward who has a chance to be a stud. Off the bench he's averaging 15 points, put him in the East as a starter and he will probably put up 20 points a game for fun.
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
Mac
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1/26/2004  5:51 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by 1:

Why isn't it a good trade? It makes sense for both teams.
why why why if your Dallas and have a PG that races up the floor and a group of frontcourt players in Walker, Jamison and Dirk that are all GREAT rebounders and run well, do you want to add two of the slowest footed forwards in the NBA??

2 reasons: Shaq. Ducan.

Shaq and Duncan dominate in every game. The trick to beating teams like San Antonio and LA is to deny their second option. With LA, their third and fourth. Then you foul the hell out of them and hope they get injured..
fishmike
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1/26/2004  5:53 PM
Martin... I think the notion of Kurt and Deke's defense is grossly overrated, especially against athletic frontcourt players. Kurt and Deke might be the slowest 4/5 combo in the NBA. Kurt has his days but he's really just a mifrange jumpshooter that plays hard everynight. He's ALWAYS in foul trouble and his defense and rebounding doesnt really impact games.

ESPECIALLY with Marbury I would MUCH rather have Doleac and Jamison at the 4/5. Doleac is a better shooter than either and Jamison's offensive skills so outclass Thomas's that the loss in Thomas's great defense isnt missed.

As for Deke he's kist past his prime and the matchups that he creates in our favor are getting more and more rare. Even slow guys like Illgauskis are torching him. Yao killed him under the net and away from it.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
s3231
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1/26/2004  5:53 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by 1:

Why isn't it a good trade? It makes sense for both teams.
why why why if your Dallas and have a PG that races up the floor and a group of frontcourt players in Walker, Jamison and Dirk that are all GREAT rebounders and run well, do you want to add two of the slowest footed forwards in the NBA??

2 reasons: Shaq. Ducan.

Dude Mutombo and KT can't guard Duncan or Shaq at all. Did you see the 2001 Finals when the Sixers played the Lakers? Mutombo was man-handled, and he didn't stop Duncan last year either in the Finals. As for KT, we all know he can't stick with either Duncan or Shaq.
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
Mac
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1/26/2004  5:55 PM
Who's gonna be there to draw a foul or block the shot when guys like Iverson or Nash blow by Houston and Van Horn? Deke and Kurt may be slow but they play good help defense.
fishmike
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1/26/2004  5:56 PM
"2 reasons: Shaq. Ducan."

Umm... and which one of those is Deke or Kurt going to have an impact against? Guys like JAmson and Dirk are much more effective because they can draw those two AWAY from the basket. People dont care about Kurt's jumper because Kurt isnt beating you, and Deke is a disaster from more than 7 feet away. Having those two guys just allows Duncan and Shaq to hang around in the paint.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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Burkina Faso (Upper Volta)
1/26/2004  5:56 PM
For all who don't think that Dallas would accept the trade, you are forgetting that jamison is merely a role player that is very expendable to them. he is averaging nearly 20 points and 8 boards for his career that has been in the west! If he comes to the east in his prime he can put up probaly 25 points and 8 boards easy. He will be the dream player for Isiah and Marbury.
MaTT4281
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1/26/2004  5:58 PM
Posted by 1:

For all who don't think that Dallas would accept the trade, you are forgetting that jamison is merely a role player that is very expendable to them. he is averaging nearly 20 points and 8 boards for his career that has been in the west! If he comes to the east in his prime he can put up probaly 25 points and 8 boards easy. He will be the dream player for Isiah and Marbury.

He could...but he wouldnt average 25 pts on the knicks. Lenny's made it clear that houston is the first scoring option...i see jameson as being the second, keith being the 3rd, and marbury 4th
fishmike
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1/26/2004  5:59 PM
lets saw it all together...

We are only going as far as Kurt Thomas will take us.

You have Steph, one of the best and fastest PGs in the game. You have Houston, one of the best SHOOTERS in the game, and you have KVH, with one of the better middle games in the league.

Whats a better fit: Thomas and Deke or Doleac and Jamison. Neither of these guys produce ANY easy or transition buckets. Im' sorry if I dont see the high value in the one charge a week Thomas draws when KVH is the only guy that EVER beats someone down court
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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1/26/2004  6:00 PM
Okay, if we are going to speculate on Jamison trades, lets try to figure out who else Dallas would be willing to trade that Isiah would take in a deal. We need a little more flexibility to make the contracts match better.


[Edited by - HARDCOREKNICKSFAN on 01/26/2004 18:01:15]
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
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Burkina Faso (Upper Volta)
1/26/2004  6:01 PM
It would be like when Marbury played with Garnett(to an extent) excpet Marbury would be happy this time becuase he will get to be Batman.
MaTT4281
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1/26/2004  6:03 PM
Posted by 1:

It would be like when Marbury played with Garnett(to an extent) excpet Marbury would be happy this time becuase he will get to be Batman.

minus the cape and tights
fishmike
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1/26/2004  6:04 PM
Man.. the Knicks could realy use a 17/7 "role player."

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3247/gamelog

He plays 30 minutes a game. Thats not role player, thats core player.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
MaTT4281
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1/26/2004  6:07 PM
Posted by fishmike:

Man.. the Knicks could realy use a 17/7 "role player."

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3247/gamelog

He plays 30 minutes a game. Thats not role player, thats core player.

isnt that basically wat KVH is?
s3231
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1/26/2004  6:10 PM
Don't know if Dallas would accept this, if not we could add a first-round pick:

New York trades: SF Keith Van Horn (16.6 ppg, 7.1 rpg, 1.7 apg in 33.8 minutes)
C Kurt Thomas (11.5 ppg, 8.9 rpg, 1.9 apg in 33.2 minutes)
New York receives: C Tariq Abdul-Wahad (11.5 ppg, 8.9 rpg, 1.9 apg in 33.2 minutes)
SF Josh Howard (8.1 ppg, 5.7 rpg, 1.4 apg in 22.9 minutes)
SF Antawn Jamison (15.7 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.0 apg in 30.1 minutes)
Change in team outlook: -4.3 ppg, -3.8 rpg, and -1.2 apg.

Dallas trades: C Tariq Abdul-Wahad (11.5 ppg, 8.9 rpg, 1.9 apg in 33.2 minutes)
SF Josh Howard (8.1 ppg, 5.7 rpg, 1.4 apg in 22.9 minutes)
SF Antawn Jamison (15.7 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 1.0 apg in 30.1 minutes)
Dallas receives: SF Keith Van Horn (16.6 ppg, 7.1 rpg, 1.7 apg in 39 games)
C Kurt Thomas (11.5 ppg, 8.9 rpg, 1.9 apg in 45 games)
Change in team outlook: +4.3 ppg, +3.8 rpg, and +1.2 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Due to New York and Dallas being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. New York and Dallas had to be no more than 115% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.


You have been assigned Trade ID number 1447228
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
s3231
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1/26/2004  6:12 PM
We could include Mutombo in there somehow, if we had too. I put Wahad in there because I know how they would like to get rid of him.
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
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