scoshin wrote:Uhh, if Turiaf opts out, we can resign him with BIRD RIGHTS, not MLE.

can you? I've never heard of that. I thought they became UFA. Not Bird Rights players.

martin wrote:

scoshin wrote:Uhh, if Turiaf opts out, we can resign him with BIRD RIGHTS, not MLE.

can you? I've never heard of that. I thought they became UFA. Not Bird Rights players.

a team has bird rights to its UFA's until it renounces them.

martin wrote:

TMS wrote:as opposed to losing Turiaf outright if we wait til free agency to sign Melo instead eh? is that situation any better?

if you don't trade for Melo and Turiaf opts out the Knicks will have gobs of cap space to resign whomever they want, so it would be bad but not unrecoverable. If we trade for Melo and are STILL over the cap (or near it) and lose Turiaf.... all you have is the MLE and LLE to build team.

So one scenario it's kinda bad and in the other it's devastating.

yeah, that & you also have 1 of the top scorers in the NBA to pair with Amare & Felton to form the best core of talent this team has had ever since Ewing was in his prime... how is that a devastating scenario? you're not even making sense... we should pass on Melo because you're scared we won't be able to replace Ronny Turiaf? really???

TMS wrote:

martin wrote:

scoshin wrote:Uhh, if Turiaf opts out, we can resign him with BIRD RIGHTS, not MLE.

can you? I've never heard of that. I thought they became UFA. Not Bird Rights players.

i don't believe we own Turiaf's Bird Rights... he signed with Golden State as a RFA & the Lakers decided not to match, thereby renouncing his Bird Rights... he was only with them for 2 years before he got traded to the Knicks... you need to be with a team for a minimum of 3 years after signing as a FA before your Bird Rights go into effect unless i'm mistaken.

You get bird rights to a player as long as they've played 3 years without being renounced or changing teams via FA. We acquired Turiaf's early bird rights and the 2 years he played in GS when we traded for him. And he only needs to play one more season (this year) for us to get his full bird rights.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q26

It would be inherently unfair to the player for example if he signed a 3 year contract, thinking he could get a hefty raise from his team after year 2 or 3, but then he gets traded in year 1. If bird rights actually reset when you get traded, players like say Felton would be screwed if we traded him this year (cause then in your example, the new team wouldn't even have his early bird rights to resign him).

And to martin, you don't lose Bird Rights if a player opts out to become a UFA. How do you think Dallas or Boston, both teams over the cap, could still retain Nowitzki and Paul Pierce? You only lose bird rights if you renounce them (to clear the cap space they take up). If the cap space isn't a concern, then you can exceed the cap to resign your own players.

It's also why the money hit LeBron, Wade, and Bosh took isn't as bad as it looks on the surface. All 3 are going to opt out again in year 4, but mainly to resign at the max.

BRIGGS wrote:

martin wrote:a very bad realistic scenario that the Knicks would have to deal with is Turiaf opting out of his Player Option and just going to the Heat or asking the Knicks to retain him using the MLE.

That would be a horrid situation. But realistic at the same time.

martin--this is the action that I want the Knicks to take

If we can use smaller assets--like a Randolph--a Mosgov--to help improve the team THIS YEAR--thats all I want to concentrate on for now unless there is a deal too good to be true out there. Let the year play out and go into the off season with an open mind. I like the starting 5. I do not think that Turriaf is a long term solution--and your darn right--if he plays well and stays healthy--there will be a market for him that extends more than 1 year. So we can only talk about that after the season. I strongly do not believe that the Knicks will give up two players i.e Gallo Fields and two picks for Melo---IF Denver even wants that and it really appears as if they dont(meaning dealing with the Knicks). I dont see a Denver Knicks match and I think in the long run--well be better off. Why becasue well have immense cap space to bring in a full strong bench--one that can interchange with the starters and we can play 48 minutes at a high level. All of this banter is WAY to early. I just want to do small deals to help this team win now--Im not looking to see if Randoplph or Mosgov come around--this is a win now team. We have a C prospect in Europe who will cost us 700k not 3.5mm. I think randolph in the right situation will be fine once he physically gets his body stronger after injury--but let another team deal with that like the Nets did with terrance Wiliams.

with mda i see a full strong bench getting DNPs. i dont trust mda ability to manage a rotation. he really is of the old school of five starters.. and the rest. thats old 80s thinking.

you have to take in the human factor and not just player talent. human factor is will mda feel comfortable playing a strong bench or does he really want star? i think he wants a star.

if new york goes plan-b and goes with surrounding a strong supporting cast around amar'e, we should look for a new coach too.

scoshin wrote:

TMS wrote:

martin wrote:

scoshin wrote:Uhh, if Turiaf opts out, we can resign him with BIRD RIGHTS, not MLE.

can you? I've never heard of that. I thought they became UFA. Not Bird Rights players.

i don't believe we own Turiaf's Bird Rights... he signed with Golden State as a RFA & the Lakers decided not to match, thereby renouncing his Bird Rights... he was only with them for 2 years before he got traded to the Knicks... you need to be with a team for a minimum of 3 years after signing as a FA before your Bird Rights go into effect unless i'm mistaken.

You get bird rights to a player as long as they've played 3 years without being renounced or changing teams via FA. We acquired Turiaf's early bird rights and the 2 years he played in GS when we traded for him. And he only needs to play one more season (this year) for us to get his full bird rights.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q26

It would be inherently unfair to the player for example if he signed a 3 year contract, thinking he could get a hefty raise from his team after year 2 or 3, but then he gets traded in year 1. If bird rights actually reset when you get traded, players like say Felton would be screwed if we traded him this year (cause then in your example, the new team wouldn't even have his early bird rights to resign him).

thank you for that info... i stand corrected... i always thought Bird Rights reset after a team renounced their rights (which happened in this case when LA decided not to match GS's offer)... forgot to add the 3rd year onto Turiaf's deal which goes into effect after this season.