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Doleac vs. K thomas
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MaseInYourFace
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1/26/2004  5:31 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by MaseInYourFace:
Posted by martin:
Posted by MaseInYourFace:

vs heat, you all saw how even doleac has a better offensive game than Thomas, pretty sad.

In other news, I hear that one game makes a season.


news flash: you don't know what you're talking about.

kthomas only has a small midrange jumper-that is nothing new, and that is what he did vs the heat. and he missed them, which he will do 60-70 percent of the time, and then he dissapears. doleac at least can take it to the rim somewhat. of course he does it pretty poorly though, but as you saw in that game, its more than thomas can do.

ah yes, thank you for making a meaningful arguement. Saying it with more words always make it so.



career freaking numbers:
G MIN FG FG%
Thomas 512 27.8 4.4-9.1 .485
Doleac 362 16.0 2.5-5.6 .438

this freakin year:
Thomas 45 33.2 5.0-11.0 .452
Doleac 38 14.2 2.1-4.7 .458




those field goal percentage numbers mean nothing. thomas is slightly better over a career and doleac is better this year, great. additionally, thomas CANNOT create his own shot so they are all wide open small jumpers,which are rare and become rarer as a game progresses. as you saw in the last game, doleac has some sort of athleticism and can get to the rim. yes it is quite weak, the point is that it is more than kthomas has!!!!!!!moral of the story is use kthomas to trade.
Yes! - Marv Albert
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bernard
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1/26/2004  5:35 PM
My point is that a lot of folks want to "upgrade" on Kurt with someone (Weed) who will require us to give up a lot and isn't a clear upgrade IMO. Weed's more athletic, a better post player (when he wants to be) and a better shot blocker, but he's not a better shooter, IMO his D is worse, and he's not as mentally tough. I wouldn't trade him 1 for 1, and we'd obviously have to give up a lot more than KT for Weed. I'd much rather upgrade at 3 or 5 than at 4.

KT's not the problem. He gives us intangibles even when his shot's not falling ... and, last 2 games excluded, the shot's pretty consistent. KVH is a liability thru and thru when his shot's off. Our biggest hole is at center. I love Mutombo, but he's a specialist at this stage in his career, good in certain situations, but even then, not much more than 20 - 25 min a game. And Doleac's D sucks. He's not good enough for the other 20 - 25 minutes.
Posted by posterchild:
Posted by bernard:

What's with all the KT bashing? He's had 2 weak games, but other than them, he's been the Knicks' most consistent player this year. He's an excellent shooter for a PF from 10 - 17. He plays very tough defense. Can be left to handle even very good PF's 1 on 1 on D and also plays good help defense.

Sure, he's got holes in his game. Not athletic. Not a shot blocker. Not a low-post threat. But he rebounds and is tough. Teams need guys like that. He brings to the Knicks a lot of what Oak brought. Not everyone can be number 1, 2 or 3 option.
so... what is you point? you told us all the reasons that we don't like thomas for so why shouldn't we bash him? 2 weak games? he's been a looser since we put him in the starting spot. don't tell me that he's been a solid player when the team hasn't been winning with him as a starter. the fact of the matter is, the knicks need an upgrade at that position and isiah has to look to do it, with him having as expiring contract, that should help the situation.
bashing him is just matter of opinion, people look to blame somebody when it isn't going right for the player along with the team. he's not proved that he can deffend the athletic, up and coming, quick reacting, pf on a consistent basis, he looks to foul rather than move his feat, that is the problem with kurt. hey, when things aren't happening the way they should, people's opinions sometimes come out loud and clear.
MaseInYourFace
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1/26/2004  5:56 PM
i don't like rasheed but anyone with any sense would trade thomas for wallace straight up, unless you didnt have any money to spend. and thomas is a hole that needs to be plugged-i didnt say it would have to be wallace, who id rather not have to give up frank williams for, you may as well get that guy allen on the heat (or someone similar) who sucks but yet still played better than thomas, and then put everything into upgrading mutumbo-who reallllly needs to retire.
Posted by bernard:

My point is that a lot of folks want to "upgrade" on Kurt with someone (Weed) who will require us to give up a lot and isn't a clear upgrade IMO. Weed's more athletic, a better post player (when he wants to be) and a better shot blocker, but he's not a better shooter, IMO his D is worse, and he's not as mentally tough. I wouldn't trade him 1 for 1, and we'd obviously have to give up a lot more than KT for Weed. I'd much rather upgrade at 3 or 5 than at 4.

KT's not the problem. He gives us intangibles even when his shot's not falling ... and, last 2 games excluded, the shot's pretty consistent. KVH is a liability thru and thru when his shot's off. Our biggest hole is at center. I love Mutombo, but he's a specialist at this stage in his career, good in certain situations, but even then, not much more than 20 - 25 min a game. And Doleac's D sucks. He's not good enough for the other 20 - 25 minutes.
Posted by posterchild:
Posted by bernard:

What's with all the KT bashing? He's had 2 weak games, but other than them, he's been the Knicks' most consistent player this year. He's an excellent shooter for a PF from 10 - 17. He plays very tough defense. Can be left to handle even very good PF's 1 on 1 on D and also plays good help defense.

Sure, he's got holes in his game. Not athletic. Not a shot blocker. Not a low-post threat. But he rebounds and is tough. Teams need guys like that. He brings to the Knicks a lot of what Oak brought. Not everyone can be number 1, 2 or 3 option.
so... what is you point? you told us all the reasons that we don't like thomas for so why shouldn't we bash him? 2 weak games? he's been a looser since we put him in the starting spot. don't tell me that he's been a solid player when the team hasn't been winning with him as a starter. the fact of the matter is, the knicks need an upgrade at that position and isiah has to look to do it, with him having as expiring contract, that should help the situation.
bashing him is just matter of opinion, people look to blame somebody when it isn't going right for the player along with the team. he's not proved that he can deffend the athletic, up and coming, quick reacting, pf on a consistent basis, he looks to foul rather than move his feat, that is the problem with kurt. hey, when things aren't happening the way they should, people's opinions sometimes come out loud and clear.
Yes! - Marv Albert
StArBuRy03
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1/26/2004  7:04 PM
youve got to be friggen kidding me, has all this trade talk brainwashed ur heads... kurt thomas is one of the reasons were the 8th seed right now, is we had doleac starting at pf we would get **** on all night, cz thomas is our best defender, that doesnt mean hes a shot blocker, that mean he changer shots and gives the knicks some character and emotion. not to mention before he was injured he was one of a hanful of players in the nba to average 10 points and 10 rebounds, which by the way doleac could never do that
marbury with the cross over..... and yao falls on his ass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
MaseInYourFace
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1/26/2004  7:10 PM
Posted by StArBuRy03:

youve got to be friggen kidding me, has all this trade talk brainwashed ur heads... kurt thomas is one of the reasons were the 8th seed right now, is we had doleac starting at pf we would get **** on all night, cz thomas is our best defender, that doesnt mean hes a shot blocker, that mean he changer shots and gives the knicks some character and emotion. not to mention before he was injured he was one of a hanful of players in the nba to average 10 points and 10 rebounds, which by the way doleac could never do that


kurt thomas is the reason we aren't better than an 8 seed.PERIOD
Yes! - Marv Albert
StArBuRy03
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1/26/2004  7:13 PM
so ur saying with doleac in the starting line up we would be better
marbury with the cross over..... and yao falls on his ass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
MaseInYourFace
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1/26/2004  7:17 PM
Posted by StArBuRy03:

so ur saying with doleac in the starting line up we would be better

i'm saying doleac has a better offensive game that thomas, and that thomas is not good enough to start on a good team. i'm saying that you can trade thomas to upgrade the 4 or 5 spot. i'm saying he has no offensive skill at all. anyone in the nba should be able to make a wide open mid range flat footed shot. yea he's tough, great. he can't block any shots and he can't get any meaningful offensive rebounds.
Yes! - Marv Albert
StArBuRy03
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1/26/2004  7:22 PM
how could a player with no offensive talent average 11 pts, how could a player with no offensive talen score 30 pts in a game, that must be the stupidist comment i've heard all night, so wat does doleac have, ok hes able to hit the same 15 footer k-thom can, has no defense at all, and cant battle with any of the easts starting pf's, hes a bust coming 10th out of the draft. idn what orlando saw in this fool.and idn wat the knicks saw in this guy either,othella is better then him, id much raher play harrington then doleac.
marbury with the cross over..... and yao falls on his ass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
MaseInYourFace
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1/26/2004  7:30 PM
Posted by StArBuRy03:

how could a player with no offensive talent average 11 pts, how could a player with no offensive talen score 30 pts in a game, that must be the stupidist comment i've heard all night, so wat does doleac have, ok hes able to hit the same 15 footer k-thom can, has no defense at all, and cant battle with any of the easts starting pf's, hes a bust coming 10th out of the draft. idn what orlando saw in this fool.and idn wat the knicks saw in this guy either,othella is better then him, id much raher play harrington then doleac.

stupidest comment? well like you said doleac can make the same mid range shot. in fact doleac can step back and hit a further shot thomas cant. doleac can get to the rim,which he did vs miami,which thomas has NEVER EVER EVER done. i'd rather play harrington too, al that is. othella is decent but has zero bball IQ.
Yes! - Marv Albert
Doleac vs. K thomas

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