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Sheed Deal Still VERY Possible!!!
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Nalod
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1/26/2004  10:50 AM

Speculative enthusiasm over Rashweed becoming a solid citizen, playing the post, and fresh city makes for a huge multimillion dollar resigning risk.

Sheed is on his best behavior this year (not the greatest now is it) given its a contract year for him. His team is losing big, he bullies teamates, makes remarkable racist statements, and does not take a leadership role.

Im not sure Dolan is ready to take on this guy. SPree on his worst day cannot compare to this dude.

I know he would make us a better basketball team short term, and no doubt would buzz the garden, but 3-4 years is a long time.

I would prefer Raheem from atlanta. A 20-10 guy, but with more character. both have not had winning reputations, but Rashweed can cause loss of sponsers and ad revenue, 'Reef is a solid guy whom has been on bad teams.

Problem is we have not expiring contracts to give ATL. Damm, Buying out Travis knight has hurt us this way. He could have been packaged with KT and the deal would make sense. Kt could get a nice raise, ATL a solid player.

Moving KVH is a problem guys, and he is worth more to us than probrably what is being offered.

Id rather see a move to get a Rodney White, move KVH to power slot at times, go small and run-run-run with Starbury! Its an option!
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NYKBocker
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1/26/2004  11:02 AM
Posted by Nalod:


Speculative enthusiasm over Rashweed becoming a solid citizen, playing the post, and fresh city makes for a huge multimillion dollar resigning risk.

Sheed is on his best behavior this year (not the greatest now is it) given its a contract year for him. His team is losing big, he bullies teamates, makes remarkable racist statements, and does not take a leadership role.

Im not sure Dolan is ready to take on this guy. SPree on his worst day cannot compare to this dude.

I know he would make us a better basketball team short term, and no doubt would buzz the garden, but 3-4 years is a long time.

I would prefer Raheem from atlanta. A 20-10 guy, but with more character. both have not had winning reputations, but Rashweed can cause loss of sponsers and ad revenue, 'Reef is a solid guy whom has been on bad teams.

Problem is we have not expiring contracts to give ATL. Damm, Buying out Travis knight has hurt us this way. He could have been packaged with KT and the deal would make sense. Kt could get a nice raise, ATL a solid player.

Moving KVH is a problem guys, and he is worth more to us than probrably what is being offered.

Id rather see a move to get a Rodney White, move KVH to power slot at times, go small and run-run-run with Starbury! Its an option!

I like your thinking. Rasheed just seems to be more trouble than his worth. Rahim would be a better choice.

I also like the idea of getting another athletic SF and move KVH to PF. Rodney White seems a OK, but I am thinking on a grander scale. How about bringing in Jamison for KT, Deke and Harrington. Dallas gets their much needed inside D. All 3 have decent contracts. Our defense would $uck but we need to pick our poison.
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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1/26/2004  11:49 AM
I've already made the points as far as the pros versus the cons on Sheed in the discussion with djsunyc on that, earlier in this thread.

However...

People hated on Spree the same way they are doing with Sheed, and they all ended up eating every last bitter word.

IMO, Sheed would be a great fit in NY. It's not a matter of anyone "controlling" him- slavery is OVER. The same comments with those racist undertones were said about Spree, especially from members of the NY press.

Sheed is outspoken and unafraid, just like Spree, and LJ before him. He would handle the NY press in the same manner that they did.
The ones that are intimidated by that are the real racists.

Moving right along...

Sheed needs to be helped with focusing his fiery passion in a way that helps his game improve and his team get more wins.
Lenny, Zeke and Aguirre can help guide him to be this kind of player. Players all over the NBA that have had time under their tutelage have, for the most part, given these men nothing but props about what they learned from them. Perhaps Sheed can be the next one to give them a vote of confidence.

As far as losing ad revenue, let's be realistic. If the Knicks get Sheed and end up in the EC finals of the NBA finals (or just making the playoffs), any idiot who doesn't wants to sponsor the Knicks can go right on ahead, and we can give the next one in the long line of companies waiting to sponsor an NBA contender a chance to spend their money.

Shareef is too docile for what we need IMO, and seems like a more athletic KVH in a way. It's hard enough to get rid of the first one- we don't need another. It's bad enough we had LayDown here for so long getting all these soft players in the first place. It took Dolan getting thouroughly embarrassed by Spree in his own arena for him to wise the hell up, and that was AFTER LayDown was fired. This team isn't about to fall back into that LayDown-esque boy scout, choirboy "character" silliness again. Not with Isiah calling the shots! That alone is like a breath of fresh air.

Isiah wants athletic, skillful players that have fire and passion. Rasheed Wallace is that kind of thayer.

[Edited by - HARDCOREKNICKSFAN on 01/26/2004 11:52:29]
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
NYKBocker
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1/26/2004  12:03 PM
Other than their temper I don't think you can compare Spree with Rasheed. Spree was volatile in that he cared too much and he just chose the wrong avenue in showing his emotions and passion. We have seen this in games against GS and his last episode here in MSG. He is a great teammate. He showed that in his defferential to Allan and Patrick.

Rasheed on the other hand....Intimidates teammates and is a cancer in a team.

Also, Spree has hit rock bottom (so to speak) before we got him. He was suspended for a year and felt the pressure of not getting his millions. He was in his best behavior when he got here.

I read somewhere that Rasheed behaves the best on contract years. This is his contract year. Scary.
Snowman
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1/26/2004  12:04 PM
HARDCORE let it go bro !!! He ain't com'n !!! lol.. You can call the " tooth ferry, santa claus, i dream of jeannie & even bewitched " but no magic wand will be waved to bring him here this year !!! lol...
What does DICK CHANEY & DON CHANEY have in common ?? They both accidentally fell into a job they don't deserve & really suck at doing it !!!! Both need to be fired !!!
s3231
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1/26/2004  12:31 PM
IMO the farthest we can go with the team we have right now is the second round of the playoffs. If we want this team to make a run at the EC finals or even get to the NBA finals we need to land Rasheed, plain and simple. The reason why Sheed is only averaging 17 points a game is because he's playing out of position, bring him to the Eastern Conference, make him a PF, and you will see him put up sick numbers. I don't care if we have to trade Thomas and Van Horn away, Rasheed will give this team a better shot at going to the finals than Thomas and Van Horn.
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
knixphan
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1/26/2004  1:52 PM
And Sheed has size.

size size size. And skill. And Zeke will pistol-whip him if he gets too far out of line. He'll have Laimbeer at his house or something.

Until Houston's off the books, I say there's no risk too risky.

...Plus, he's got the cool hairspot/firewire port thingee.

...And Sheed/Starbury posters would sell like hotcakes on Nostrand.




"I will dress in bright and cheery colors, and so throw my enemies into confusion."
Stevo718
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1/26/2004  1:58 PM
Rasheed got mad skills... Of course he aint gonna have good numbers on a team that sucks, on a team that he is sick of.

Just like Spree, remember when everyone said, "yeah he lost a lot on his step" he did? yeah cause he really sucks on Minn now, lol.

Does Portland even have a ghetto? What I am trying to say is that since Isiah came in MSG has gotten back some of it's street cred, something Portland never had, something few cities have, and something players like Spree, Marbury and Rasheed understand.

Did we boo Spree when he came back to play at MSG as a Timberwolve? Did we complain when Spree mocked Dolan? I didn't, but I know some of you closet racists did(hahaha).

And since when has having bad boys on a team automatically eliminate you from any championship?
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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1/26/2004  2:38 PM
My man SteveO, you came through like a champ again. GREAT post. You and I are on the same page, bruh!

Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
Nalod
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1/26/2004  2:45 PM
As far as losing ad revenue, let's be realistic. If the Knicks get Sheed and end up in the EC finals of the NBA finals (or just making the playoffs), any idiot who doesn't wants to sponsor the Knicks can go right on ahead, and we can give the next one in the long line of companies waiting to sponsor an NBA contender a chance to spend their money.


I don't think American express, Paine Webber, or Citi group and others are all that trilled about reupping a pretender contender whom with Rashweed might make a nice run.

Crazy ass Rashweed is not a solid choice for ad dollars.

Don't confuse short term winning on the court with big Corperations wanting solid partners. Sorry, being a REAL fan and full of enthusiasm is great, but don't confuse some buisness fundamental with emotional support. They are seperate.

you can fill the blues seats up all you want, but the REAL money is from the boxes and ad revenue.

Sheed is an excellent player, but understand MSG is a business.

C'ore, your more interested in pointed out whom can eat words or how right you are or can be.

Some people just don't want him here. They are not idiots, they just have an opinion. Your opinion is just as stupid and ignorant as anyone else. Your opinion is SUBJECTIVE. You have stated your position and it is respected, but your pleasure to disect and call everyone out on any postion you don't agree with is very sophmoric, and your missing some good points, even if they don't agree with yours.

Your unbridled optimism is full of passion which is a cool thing, but not at the expense of others.

The fire and passion of getting bonehead Technicals is very selfish. He is unrealiable and at 30 years old you think he needs a babysitter in the form of Isiah to watch him? 17 million and he can't take responsablity for himself? This guy rants and raves over the NBA taking advantage of Lottory picks? NBA is a tough business to crack into and stay. These players are under enourmous amounts of stress, but they also need to take care of themselves, not just there bodies, but the MIND!

He can say what ever he wants, but there are ramifications to ones actions, especially in a contract year.



[Edited by - Nalod on 01/26/2004 15:06:11]
Nalod
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1/26/2004  3:01 PM
IMO, Sheed would be a great fit in NY. It's not a matter of anyone "controlling" him- slavery is OVER. The same comments with those racist undertones were said about Spree, especially from members of the NY press.

Sheed is outspoken and unafraid, just like Spree, and LJ before him. He would handle the NY press in the same manner that they did.
The ones that are intimidated by that are the real racists.

Moving right along...

Sheed needs to be helped with focusing his fiery passion in a way that helps his game improve and his team get more wins.


You seriously pulling out the race card here to prove your point? We get your point, you want Rashweed here. Cool, your entittled. Nobody said you could not.

"Fiery Passion", some call it just being plain ole crazy!

LJ was embraced here. Spree was given every opportunity and only had problems with Management, and training camps. He was a good team mate, worked hard, did his best to play out of position.

"Sheed is unafraid and outspoken", your right, unafraid to think clearly before making a statement. Unafraid to not light up.

Look, I think the airport thing was overdone and he deserves his privacy. He also can take a private plane if he does not want to be bothered. Can't always have it both ways, collect the big money from fans support, then shun them. Balance.

I can deal with all his crap, but I can't stand when player erupt and get Technicals in crucial parts of the game. I could not stand it with Starks and Mason, and Sheed can be that way also.

Core, your views are SUBJECTIVE, its what you think, not what is. There is no basis to factually say that Rashweed the Knick would be well behaved and a good knick for the next 3-4 years over what he has been doing. Portland has had very good teams, and they have crashed and burned with him right in the middle. If he has fire and passion, then why as you say would he not relish being a first or second option? Ranting like the province lunatic is not passion, it called crazy. and dudes making 17 million and act like that on the court are subject to being scrutinized. They signed the contract, that the line of work they are in, and must take the good with the bad.

A lot of what you think is based on that fact he wants to come here (sure, we got dumb money to pay for all kinds of players). You assume being in NYC would make all of his behavior much better? You think Isiah really cares about him? How sweet!

Someone mentined the City would bring it all back and real for him?

You think the kind of money he makes, he wants to keep it real? If the dude has the city thing in mind, he should give back and help the community, not get it all going on with whats happing with the boys!

He'll be camped out keeping it real in Westchester on a few acres on some 10 million dollar crib, with big fences to keep all those dudes out. Thats his "real".






[Edited by - Nalod on 01/26/2004 15:13:30]
knixphan
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1/26/2004  3:20 PM
I can't say that I'd be proud to have Sheed in my family or anything....as a relative, I admit, I'd probably be a bit embarassed by his rhetoric, it is kinda dumb at times...

but he's big...

"I will dress in bright and cheery colors, and so throw my enemies into confusion."
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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1/26/2004  3:23 PM

Posted by Nalod:
As far as losing ad revenue, let's be realistic. If the Knicks get Sheed and end up in the EC finals of the NBA finals (or just making the playoffs), any idiot who doesn't wants to sponsor the Knicks can go right on ahead, and we can give the next one in the long line of companies waiting to sponsor an NBA contender a chance to spend their money.

I don't think American express, Paine Webber, or Citi group and others are all that trilled about reupping a pretender contender.
Okay, that may be true, but they, along with AIG, are still sponsoring the Knicks and did even when we were in the dark ages (the LayDown/Chaney losing era).

One run in the playoffs does not make for a solid investment.
More people are watching and attending the games. That is what sponsors are most concerned about.

Crazy ass Rashweed is not a solid choice for ad dollars.
By him helping us win games, and therefore getting more viewers watching TV and butts in the seats at the games, he actually does.

Don't confuse short term winning on the court with big Corperations wanting solid partners. Sorry, being a REAL fan and full of enthusiasm is great, but don't confuse some buisness fundamental with emotional support. They are seporate.
you can fill the blues seats up all you want, but the REAL money is from the boxes and ad revenue.
Me being a real fan has nothing to do with it, I agree. I completely isolated that topic above.

Sheed is an excellent player, but understand MSG is a business.
Excellent players help teams win games. Winning games is always good for business.

'Core, your more interested in pointed out whom can eat words or how right you are or can be.
No, I made a point, simple and plain. If I agree, then I say so. If not, again, I say so. Only the stubborn ones end up eating their words (by the way, how do they taste? LOL )

Some people just don't want him here. They are not idiots, they just have an opinion.
LOL Who did I call idiots? If you take the time to read my post, I referred to those corporations who would not want to sponsor the Knicks.

Your opinion is just as stupid and ignorant as anyone else.
Name calling is even more ignorant, don't you think? LMAO

You have stated your position and it is respected, but your pleasure to disect and call everyone out on any postion you don't agree with is very sophmoric, and your missing some good points, even if they don't agree with yours.
It's called a discussion. If someone makes a point that gets dissected, then it's the one who presented that point who should be held accountable for not having further analyzed that point prior to it being posted. Also, if someone makes a point that they cannot defend, the point is rendered moot and invalid. I defend my stances like anyone making a valid point would, could and should do

Your unbridled optimism is full of passion which is a cool thing, but not at the expense of others.
See above.

The fire and passion of getting bonehead Technicals is very selfish. He is unrealiable and at 30 years old you think he needs a babysitter in the form of Isiah to watch him?
Again, I ask that you read my posts. My explanation regarding what Rasheed would get, mentor-wise, shouldn't be intelligently inerpreted as needing a "babysitter".

17 million and he can't take responsablity for himself? This guy rants and raves over the NBA taking advantage of Lottory picks? NBA is a tough business to crack into and stay. These players are under enourmous amounts of stress, but they also need to take care of themselves, not just there bodies, but the MIND!
Money, sir, is not the end-all, be-all. He needs help with focusing his passion and fire. That would help him or any player with both areas (body and mind) that you mentioned.

He can say what ever he wants, but there are ramifications to ones actions, especially in a contract year.
...and hopefully he will get his next contract in NY


[Edited by - HARDCOREKNICKSFAN on 01/26/2004 15:25:01]
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
Stevo718
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1/26/2004  3:57 PM

He should give back to the community? So with that reasoning, (and i take this from Chris Rock) do you know how much BLACK athletes make for Colleges? And how much of this money goes to non-athletic black scholarships? And how much of this money EARNED by black athletes goes to WHITE students? Exactly.

Ever gone to a Knicks game at MSG? Do you know the black to white ratio in the first 20 rows? They might as well place a WHITES ONLY sign there. Okay so I'm not including Spike Lee or Jay-Z, woops.

Don't get me wrong, I don't expect him to turn into a saint, or an Allan Houston, but I think what he could bring to the Knicks game would be worth it. He can TAKE OVER a game, watch some of his old games. He got SIZE, he can play the 3 4 or 5. We are super thin at the 4 and 5.

OMG and in terms of BIZNIZ. I guarentee if he was in NYC you would see him in a commercial soon enough for sneakers or some type of HIP-HOP gear. Like I said the NYC market and other major URBAN markets depend on STREET CRED for their marketing. Spree choked his coach, got endorsements, Iverson speaks his mind, got endorsements, look at the AND1 crew. In NYC MAAAAAAAAAAAAD kids would rock RASHEED jerseys. Ask any kid in the ghetto if they would love to see Rasheed in NYC, and although these people can't get tickets in the first 20 rows(not always because they can't afford it, but because they get locked out) they do spend an insane amount of money on sports clothing.

HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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1/26/2004  4:09 PM

Posted by Nalod:
IMO, Sheed would be a great fit in NY. It's not a matter of anyone "controlling" him- slavery is OVER. The same comments with those racist undertones were said about Spree, especially from members of the NY press.

Sheed is outspoken and unafraid, just like Spree, and LJ before him. He would handle the NY press in the same manner that they did.
The ones that are intimidated by that are the real racists.

Moving right along...

Sheed needs to be helped with focusing his fiery passion in a way that helps his game improve and his team get more wins.


You seriously pulling out the race card here to prove your point? We get your point, you want Rashweed here. Cool, your entittled. Nobody said you could not.
I said that due to some of the veiled racist comments that have been made towards Sheed. I don't let things like that go unchecked.

"Fiery Passion", some call it just being plain ole crazy!
He talked about the topic of his passion in the interview. He sounded perfectly sane to me.

LJ was embraced here. Spree was given every opportunity and only had problems with Management, and training camps. He was a good team mate, worked hard, did his best to play out of position.

"Sheed is unafraid and outspoken", your right, unafraid to think clearly before making a statement. Unafraid to not light up.
It would have been alot easier for you to have just said "I am intimidated by what he said in the interview." LOL

Look, I think the airport thing was overdone and he deserves his privacy. He also can take a private plane if he does not want to be bothered. Can't always have it both ways, collect the big money from fans support, then shun them. Balance.

I can deal with all his crap, but I can't stand when player erupt and get Technicals in crucial parts of the game. I could not stand it with Starks and Mason, and Sheed can be that way also.
That was an issue in 2001. It's now 2004. How many techs does he have this year?

Core, your views are SUBJECTIVE, its what you think, not what is.
There is no basis to factually say that Rashweed the Knick would be well behaved and a good knick for the next 3-4 years over what he has been doing.
For your information, "IMO" means "In my opinion". Read up on your chatspeak before making assumptions. Thanks.

Portland has had very good teams, and they have crashed and burned with him right in the middle. If he has fire and passion, then why as you say would he not relish being a first or second option?
So I guess him playing out of position to accomodate Zach Randolph doesn't count. Okay.

Ranting like the province lunatic is not passion, it called crazy.
He explained that in the article. Read it again.

and dudes making 17 million and act like that on the court are subject to being scrutinized. They signed the contract, that the line of work they are in, and must take the good with the bad.
Does the signing of a contract forefeit the right to argue calls? He still argues calls, but just doesn't let the refs get to him like before.

A lot of what you think is based on that fact he wants to come here (sure, we got dumb money to pay for all kinds of players). You assume being in NYC would make all of his behavior much better? You think Isiah really cares about him? How sweet!
Isiah cares about WINNING. How sweet it is! LMAO

Someone mentined the City would bring it all back and real for him?

You think the kind of money he makes, he wants to keep it real? If the dude has the city thing in mind, he should give back and help the community, not get it all going on with whats happing with the boys!
For what seems to be the umpteenth time. Read the interview! On his own time, he can do what he wants. He has community-based programs and went on to say he's not concerned with the photo ops.

He'll be camped out keeping it real in Westchester on a few acres on some 10 million dollar crib, with big fences to keep all those dudes out. Thats his "real".
That's his perogative. If your slanted vision of "keeping it real" is living in the projects, that that shows how limited your scope of vison is. The important thing is not forgetting where one comes from- which is the reason for those inner-city community programs in the first place.


[Edited by - HARDCOREKNICKSFAN on 01/26/2004 16:10:29]
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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1/26/2004  4:14 PM
Posted by Stevo718:

He should give back to the community? So with that reasoning, (and i take this from Chris Rock) do you know how much BLACK athletes make for Colleges? And how much of this money goes to non-athletic black scholarships? And how much of this money EARNED by black athletes goes to WHITE students? Exactly.

Ever gone to a Knicks game at MSG? Do you know the black to white ratio in the first 20 rows? They might as well place a WHITES ONLY sign there. Okay so I'm not including Spike Lee or Jay-Z, woops.

Don't get me wrong, I don't expect him to turn into a saint, or an Allan Houston, but I think what he could bring to the Knicks game would be worth it. He can TAKE OVER a game, watch some of his old games. He got SIZE, he can play the 3 4 or 5. We are super thin at the 4 and 5.

OMG and in terms of BIZNIZ. I guarentee if he was in NYC you would see him in a commercial soon enough for sneakers or some type of HIP-HOP gear. Like I said the NYC market and other major URBAN markets depend on STREET CRED for their marketing. Spree choked his coach, got endorsements, Iverson speaks his mind, got endorsements, look at the AND1 crew. In NYC MAAAAAAAAAAAAD kids would rock RASHEED jerseys. Ask any kid in the ghetto if they would love to see Rasheed in NYC, and although these people can't get tickets in the first 20 rows(not always because they can't afford it, but because they get locked out) they do spend an insane amount of money on sports clothing.

SteveO, they aren't ready for the truth! Not only do you keep it real, you keep it honest. It's good to have postas like you around, yo.

[Edited by - HARDCOREKNICKSFAN on 01/26/2004 16:16:19]
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
Stevo718
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1/26/2004  5:10 PM
HAHA, thanks man, no doubt, same to you.

A lot of good intelligent posters here. Glad to be aboard.
MaTT4281
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1/26/2004  6:01 PM
no rasheed plz...id assume get shareef over him.
Bobby
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1/26/2004  6:59 PM
To Compare Sheed to AI is Wack
"Like they always say, New York is the Mecca of basketball,"I read that in Michael Jordan books my whole life and I played here in the Big East tournament, so it's always fun to play in the Mecca of basketball."---Rip Hamilton
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1/26/2004  7:02 PM
Posted by Snowman:

HARDCORE let it go bro !!! He ain't com'n !!! lol.. You can call the " tooth ferry, santa claus, i dream of jeannie & even bewitched " but no magic wand will be waved to bring him here this year !!! lol...

SNowman, I kept telling Hardcore the same thing. Knicks will not be able to acquire Rashweed in any way. Knicks just don't have the appealing tradeable assets to obtain Weed.

Majority of the assets were traded away in the Marbury deal. Xmas is over the Knicks for now. Hopefully during the off-season, Knicks can somehow acquire him..

John Nash the GM for Portland isn't stupid enough to just unload Weed for mediocrity. Also, they're not looking to pick up long term deal.
If a team is willing to acquire Weed, they would have to give a notch better than RashWeed talent. ( teams trying to get to the playoffs).

[Edited by - WOODMANnYk on 01/26/2004 19:07:35]
The Future. GO KNICKS!
Sheed Deal Still VERY Possible!!!

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