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Small Lineup Fool's Gold
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JohnWallace44
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12/7/2010  1:16 AM
After the Toronto game on Wednesday, we have increasingly tough games in terms of size and defensive ability.

Washington has the size to matchup with us all over the floor like no other teams have during this stretch, but they don't have much defensive ability, so hopefully we can get by them with out BBIQ and skill.

Denver has the size of course and the player in Melo to go head to head with Amare. That will be a real test given that our last game vs Denver was the last before the 10-1 stretch.

Boston is the top of the mountain.

Now, we've been doing much better than just getting by with this small lineup with Wilson at the 4 and STAT at the 5, but I can say with some certainty that the fun is about to end.

There is no way on god's green earth that the small lineup is going to work against these teams as we go up in size and class.

Someone out of Mozgov, Turiaf, Randolph is going to have to step up and be able to come out on the plus side for 20 min a game during this stretch against varsity lineups. I hope that it doesn't take D'Antoni too long to realize this.

It would require career nights from Wilson, Gallo, Fields and Williams to get past the big contenders in the East without size. I hope MikeD doesn't take that gamble.

Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
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Marv
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12/7/2010  1:28 AM
It makes no sense to criticize mda for using this lineup and WINNING with it. He used moz and rony effectively off the bench for good stretches tonight. They'll get their shots against the bigger teams and we'll see how they do.
nixluva
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12/7/2010  1:46 AM
Let's say that he does stick with the small lineup for stretches. You do realize that he's done all of this before, to the tune of 50+ wins? He's gone with an 8 man rotation and small lineup against the best in the West and won. Yet it amazes me how little respect fans have for what Mike has accomplished in this league. He's doing the same things with this team that he was doing in PHX. Wasn't that kind of the plan?

We actually have bigs that we can used to matchup, but teams will eventually have to matchup with us too. Those same bigs they will be using won't be able to defend on the perimeter and that's how he's able to force teams to go smaller. We keep hitting 3's and they have no choice. That's how he's won in the past, but this time we actually have a more flexible roster, with a decent amount of size to throw at the bigger teams when needed. I know I got knocked the last few years for my faith in this coach and his system and style, but I just call it like I see it. With the right players this guy doesn't fail to get a lot out of his teams. Let's see how far he can get and then look to make adjustments.

If Mike had a group of bigs like Turiaf, Timo and AR to work with he may have won a title or two. As the season progresses, let's see if he can't get AR into the mix. Give him a chance.

SupremeCommander
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12/7/2010  2:33 AM
Marv wrote:It makes no sense to criticize mda for using this lineup and WINNING with it. He used moz and rony effectively off the bench for good stretches tonight. They'll get their shots against the bigger teams and we'll see how they do.

agreed. I am satisified with four of the five starters. the starting lineup is unfinished. when thinks a small lineup can win us games I sure as hell hope he employs it. when he needs to go big I hope he does. there is a structural roster flaw that will get fixed as this is in no way, shape, or form a finished roster. that said, the direction we're headed si good and I applaud the direction

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
knicks1248
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12/7/2010  3:21 AM
Everybody in the starting line up is a perimeter threat, and when they space the floor it's almost impossible to defend..with amare playing as dominate as he is..don't think for one minute, teams aren't look at us as a tough game.

Teams can't just pencil us in as a win, im looking fwd to the above 500 teams cause were an above 500 team.

We got a little swagger with us right now, and a bonife pg and super star, wtf..we just went 10 and 1 and have the 5th best record in the east, played the most road games in the entire league, came back from deficits on the road, with stood major runs from opposing teams on there own floors, and just over came a team that shot like 80% in the 1st half....

And we still have much more room to improve, and a we still have another weapon (AZ) in the works.

ES
orangeblobman
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Nauru
12/7/2010  5:52 AM
JohnWallace44, your pessimism beez wack. And the small lineup isn't even that small. Gallinari is almost 7 feet tall and moves like a prong buck.
WE AIN'T NOWHERE WITH THIS BUM CHOKER IN CARMELO. GIVE ME STARKS'S 2-21 ANY DAY OVER THIS LACKLUSTER CLUSTEREFF.
Paladin55
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12/7/2010  7:49 AM
We have a SG who plays like a SF, and even a PF at times; a SF who is 6'10+; and Chandler, who has shown himself to be an excellent shot blocker.

Guys have to do a better job of boxing out, and this will negate, somewhat, the height advantages some teams have on us.

Darko made us look small on D, though, having a 6'11" banger to go along with Mosguv and Turiaf would be a nice thing to have in MDA's tool box. Randolph was supposed to be this guy, but...

No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
misterearl
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12/7/2010  7:59 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/7/2010  8:03 AM
Who's Small?


Felton may be only 6'1, but he hits like a linebacker

Landry Fields is 6'7 and rebounds as well as David Lee

Gallo is 6'10 and learning the joy of driving the paint

Wilson Chandler is 6'8 240 and much stronger than advertised

Captain A is 6'10 and solid muscle. "AND ONE!"

The New Microwave Shawne Williams is 6'9 and will block a shot

Mozgov is a legit seven feet tall

Toney Douglas has the wingspan of a 6'10 forward

Turiaf IS a 6'10 forward


Small?

Really?

once a knick always a knick
franco12
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12/7/2010  8:31 AM
misterearl wrote:Who's Small?


Felton may be only 6'1, but he hits like a linebacker

Landry Fields is 6'7 and rebounds as well as David Lee

Gallo is 6'10 and learning the joy of driving the paint

Wilson Chandler is 6'8 240 and much stronger than advertised

Captain A is 6'10 and solid muscle. "AND ONE!"

The New Microwave Shawne Williams is 6'9 and will block a shot

Mozgov is a legit seven feet tall

Toney Douglas has the wingspan of a 6'10 forward

Turiaf IS a 6'10 forward


Small?

Really?

I agree with JW. Small Ball may not hurt us during the regular season, but come play offs, styles & what is allowed changes, and we'll be pushed off the court like a JV team.

We have some height, but no 'girth'. As strong as Amare might be, he isn't an immovable object that can anchor a defense and hold down the middle. He is no center, and neither is Wilson Chandler.

Where's Briggs with his Thompson thread?

If we had a Brook Lopez, Kevin Love- heck even a Robin Lopez in the middle, we'd be one of the top 4 teams in the east.

JohnWallace44
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12/7/2010  8:37 AM
Look, I've always backed MikeD. He's done a really good job during this stretch to pull out games and to pull away from most of these teams down the stretch.

All I'm saying is that there have been warning signs, especially last night against Minny. When Darko, Love and Beas were the front line against our Wilson/Gallo/Stat lineup we had to shoot 70% to stay within 10. Darko got hurt and we clawed out a victory.

You have to think its going to be even tougher from a physical standpoint against Denver and Boston especially.

We either have to go at their bigs and try to foul them out from the opening tip, or we have to dust off our bigs and see what they can give us in my opinion.

I guess I'm just getting greedy, but it would be great to go .500 against this run of playoff teams.

Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
fishmike
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12/7/2010  8:45 AM
JohnWallace44 wrote:After the Toronto game on Wednesday, we have increasingly tough games in terms of size and defensive ability.

Washington has the size to matchup with us all over the floor like no other teams have during this stretch, but they don't have much defensive ability, so hopefully we can get by them with out BBIQ and skill.

Denver has the size of course and the player in Melo to go head to head with Amare. That will be a real test given that our last game vs Denver was the last before the 10-1 stretch.

Boston is the top of the mountain.

Now, we've been doing much better than just getting by with this small lineup with Wilson at the 4 and STAT at the 5, but I can say with some certainty that the fun is about to end.

There is no way on god's green earth that the small lineup is going to work against these teams as we go up in size and class.

Someone out of Mozgov, Turiaf, Randolph is going to have to step up and be able to come out on the plus side for 20 min a game during this stretch against varsity lineups. I hope that it doesn't take D'Antoni too long to realize this.

It would require career nights from Wilson, Gallo, Fields and Williams to get past the big contenders in the East without size. I hope MikeD doesn't take that gamble.

let me buck the trend and say I have similar concerns. First and foremost Amare's scoring has been otherworldly (last 5 games 35ppg, 60% FGs) and he knows it and he's very tentative on defense and collecting fouls. If you have any kind of bigman who can score they are going to go right at him. Look at how Min started this game. Every team is going to take note and attack Amare in the post. We can recover that kind of start against the Wolves because we are simply too talented for them to deal with for 48 minutes, but the Heat, Celtics, Hawks, Magic and Bulls (the teams ahead of us) we wont have that luxury.

I'm still in favor of starting a center, whether its Turiaf or even Mosgov. If Mosgov picks up 2 fouls in 8 minutes starting against Darko then fine... at least he's not getting pushed around because we cant let our main scorer pick up fouls.

I'm not so down on the small lineup, mostly because its not that small. Fields at 6'7 is the NBA's best rebounding guard (another 10 last night). Gallo is 6'10+, Amare is 6'10 and Chandler is 6'8 but very powerful and an elite athlete.

This is just part of seeing what we have. I think the Knicks showed a weakness last night that other teams will attack, they also adjusted very well and decided to play defense in the 2nd half. Once that happened the Wolves had no shot

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
scoshin
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12/7/2010  8:51 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/7/2010  8:52 AM
Starting Chandler/Amare against Love/Darko was beyond stupid on D'Antoni's part, but he recognized his mistake early and subbed in Turiaf within the first 3 minutes of the 1st. So kudos to him.

Then when Darko went out, I have no problem running with a smallball lineup.

Very few teams have a legit center playing at center, so going with Chandler/Amare isn't as bad as people make it sound. But D'Antoni needs to recognize when we're facing teams like say Boston or even Orlando...I'd much rather start Turiaf or even Mozgov against them. You need to matchup size with size.

NYKBocker
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12/7/2010  8:51 AM
I agree with misterearl. Small? We are only short at C as Amare is only 6'10" but he is a beast. PF? The Mayor is only 6'8" but he is built like an OLB. I don't see anybody man handling him. SF? Gallo at 6'10" is taller than most SFs. SG? Fields at 6'7" is taller than almost all SGs. Felton is 6'1" bulldog.

Then our bench comes and we have a 7'1" russian terminator. A 6'9" 3pt machine. A 6'3" tazmanian devil. A 6'10" blocking machine.

Where are we small?

Note: Whoever replied to me in the game thread about some mango tendencies need not reply.

misterearl
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12/7/2010  9:05 AM
scoshin - the sense is that Turiaf has not totally healed and was pressed into action because of the experience in Minneapolis.

... totally endorse playing Mozgov until the light comes on.

once a knick always a knick
fishmike
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12/7/2010  9:09 AM
we are small... yes, MDA won 55+ games starting Marion/Diaw at PF/C for a whole season but thats not something I want to emulate. What we gain in speed and offense is outweighed by how hurt we get on the otherside. My god, when Darko is looking like Hakeem you know your line up isnt working.

Sure most teams dont play a true center... most *bad* teams. Look at the East: Knoa/Boozer, Horford/Smith, Garnett/Shaq, Howard/Lewis. We are getting pushed off the blocks everytime against those team, who are all ahead of us in the standings

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
VDesai
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12/7/2010  9:11 AM
I think we could use a guy who can defend the post and score a little in the post as change of pace reserve. Other than that I think our lineup causes length/speed mismatches against most teams in the NBA. Just as it did for the Suns.
DurzoBlint
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12/7/2010  9:24 AM
Marv wrote:It makes no sense to criticize mda for using this lineup and WINNING with it. He used moz and rony effectively off the bench for good stretches tonight. They'll get their shots against the bigger teams and we'll see how they do.

hahahaha +1

the fact that you can't even have an unrelated thread without some tool here bringing him up make me think that rational minds are few and far between. Bunch of emotionally weak, angst riddled people. I mean, how many times can you argue the same shyt
fishmike
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12/7/2010  9:33 AM
VDesai wrote:I think we could use a guy who can defend the post and score a little in the post as change of pace reserve. Other than that I think our lineup causes length/speed mismatches against most teams in the NBA. Just as it did for the Suns.

its going to be hard to get away from this style of play as its working so well, ESPECIALLY when we defend like we did 2nd half last night. You have Timo and Turiaf off the bench for size... we will see
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
martin
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12/7/2010  9:39 AM
misterearl wrote:The New Microwave Shawne Williams is 6'9 and will block a shot

oh hmmmm not bad. dude does need a knick name

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FistOfOakley
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12/7/2010  9:45 AM
it makes no sense to play your worse players just to match up with the other team. marion did just fine as a PF alongside STAT because he was a beast on the boards. now turiaf does bring things to the table but he is even weaker on the boards than chandler.

i'd rather that teams have to try to adjust to us and the key is for guys like gallo and chandler to win their matchups. so far they have but we haven't been playing good teams.

Small Lineup Fool's Gold

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