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MDA offense got it backwards: Amare should be last option not first option
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martin
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11/18/2010  11:33 AM
Amare should be the finisher or the guy who attracts the double teams so that others get a better look or something. I dont know how to articulate it but the O should be focused around movement and perhaps Gallo while letting Chandler, Fields, Amare etc go to the rim.

Amare is not a passer or dribble driver when he has to put the ball down in traffic.

Nash is so good at both handling the ball and knowing when to feed that he put it into places where all Amare had to do was either shoot it or dunk it. Felton can't do this (yet?).

Why don't they switch the focus from Gallo to Amare? Or something like that.

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NYKBocker
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11/18/2010  11:37 AM
I agree. Gallo is our best playmaker IMHO. Let Felton do his thing in transition but let Gallo me the primary weapon in the half court set.
alau53
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11/18/2010  11:37 AM
mda makes 6m a year and martin figures out what's wrong with the knicks..i hope they consider martin as coach when donnie makes a coaching change
martin
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11/18/2010  11:40 AM
alau53 wrote:mda makes 6m a year and martin figures out what's wrong with the knicks..i hope they consider martin as coach when donnie makes a coaching change

I think everyone, including MDA, underestimated Felton. I mean, every PG knows PnR, right?

One must assume that MDA knew Amare couldn't put the ball on the floor too much (or perhaps he never had to with Nash around?).

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K22
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11/18/2010  11:54 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/18/2010  12:19 PM
alau53 wrote:mda makes 6m a year and martin figures out what's wrong with the knicks..i hope they consider martin as coach when donnie makes a coaching change

Sure, but then UK would be having posts about six months later demanding Martin be dismissed for Mark Jackson or someone else.

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nixluva
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11/18/2010  12:11 PM
If you look at the plays in Mike's system they aren't really designed for Amar'e to be the 1st option. The team is still running the same plays as PHX, but the results are far different. They aren't running them properly and so it just ends up with Amar'e going iso more often. Plus until Gallo stepped up there was no way to really take advantage of his skills. He was kind of lost for a while there, but now he's getting into it.

Remember that it was Mike who said he wanted Gallo to be more aggressive and that is starting to happen. It was Mike and the Coaching staff that wanted Gallo to work on his explosion, quickness, post game and drives to the basket this summer. The opportunities Gallo is taking advantage of have always been there, but he just wasn't doing anything. Perhaps I look at things differently because I have the SSOL playbook and i'm looking at the options that exist and i'm clearly not seeing players making full use of them yet. Fields is one guy that does take advantage of those options. Now Gallo seems to be coming around.

Mike is no dummy and what he tries to do is get his players to play free and flowing BB, based on the sets he has them drill which have so many similar looks but multiple variations. You do it over and over and over until it's like a dance. You react naturally rather than thinking and that's the beauty of it. You get so good that you move faster than any defense can react. I say we give him time to work with this roster and at some point it will start to show that they are mastering the system. I'm not really worried cuz I think it's not IF, but WHEN it happens.

MIKE DON'T CHANGE A DAMN THING! Keep drilling this stuff until they finally get it.

GodSaveTheKnicks
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11/18/2010  1:43 PM
prettiest play last night in my opinion was a PnR between Turiaf and TD.

You can see it here: http://www.fromthebaseline.com/video-mixes/mixes/Big-C/'s-Top-Plays-Knicks-vs-Kings/0/106/1

Turiaf rolls to the basket and when someone rotates to him he dumps it off to Amare who finishes with a flourish. We need to see more of that.

Also had a nice PnR with Felton and Amare in the 4th quarter. The offense can only get better and I LOVED the D last night.

Let's try to elevate the level of discourse in this byeetch. Please
JohnWallace44
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11/18/2010  2:01 PM
NYKBocker wrote:I agree. Gallo is our best playmaker IMHO. Let Felton do his thing in transition but let Gallo me the primary weapon in the half court set.

I saw this video today and at first I thought this was funny... then I saw your post about how the offense should go through Gallo... wow. You should go on tour with that routine. He's our best playmaker? What qualifies as a "play"?

Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
crzymdups
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11/18/2010  2:06 PM
I agree, Martin.

Except, rather than saying he's the last option - I would say he should be the disguised option. Rather than openly going directly to Amar'e on every. single. play. have a little misdirection. That's what the pick and roll is meant to do in essence. If that's not working, find other ways to draw the defensive focus over to another area of the floor and open things up for Amare.

I'd like to see Wilson operating more on the elbow, as well as Gallo. Get a two man game working with Ray and Gallo and have Amar'e moving towards the hoop while this happens.

For all Mike's offense genius, the offense seems really limited most times.

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martin
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11/18/2010  2:15 PM
crzymdups wrote:I agree, Martin.

Except, rather than saying he's the last option - I would say he should be the disguised option. Rather than openly going directly to Amar'e on every. single. play. have a little misdirection. That's what the pick and roll is meant to do in essence. If that's not working, find other ways to draw the defensive focus over to another area of the floor and open things up for Amare.

I'd like to see Wilson operating more on the elbow, as well as Gallo. Get a two man game working with Ray and Gallo and have Amar'e moving towards the hoop while this happens.

For all Mike's offense genius, the offense seems really limited most times.

completely agree.

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Paladin55
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11/18/2010  2:18 PM
martin wrote:Amare should be the finisher or the guy who attracts the double teams so that others get a better look or something. I dont know how to articulate it but the O should be focused around movement and perhaps Gallo while letting Chandler, Fields, Amare etc go to the rim.

Amare is not a passer or dribble driver when he has to put the ball down in traffic.

Nash is so good at both handling the ball and knowing when to feed that he put it into places where all Amare had to do was either shoot it or dunk it. Felton can't do this (yet?).

Why don't they switch the focus from Gallo to Amare? Or something like that.

You've been much more "aggressive" in terms of posting and starting threads.

Are you angling to replace MDA or be an assistant to Walsh?

No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
ramtour420
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11/18/2010  2:20 PM
Amare is the only player we have that can draw a double team tho.
Everything you have ever wanted is on the other side of fear- George Adair
nixluva
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11/18/2010  2:24 PM
crzymdups wrote:I agree, Martin.

Except, rather than saying he's the last option - I would say he should be the disguised option. Rather than openly going directly to Amar'e on every. single. play. have a little misdirection. That's what the pick and roll is meant to do in essence. If that's not working, find other ways to draw the defensive focus over to another area of the floor and open things up for Amare.

I'd like to see Wilson operating more on the elbow, as well as Gallo. Get a two man game working with Ray and Gallo and have Amar'e moving towards the hoop while this happens.

For all Mike's offense genius, the offense seems really limited most times.

You're correct in that the PnR is a play that is supposed to take the D by surprise and not be so obvious all the time. The rudimentary way the Knicks are running it isn't by design, but necessity since Felton and TD have so much trouble with it.

As for Mike's offense, don't get it twisted, the limitations are with our PG's and not his X and O's. Like i've said there are so many nuances to his sets, but these kids are only able to handle the basics so far. Fields has been most comfortable in this system and seems to get it. In fact he was jumping the gun, cuz he saw what was going to open up. Now his timing is near perfect. I only hope one day that more of our players get to that point.

Paladin55
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11/18/2010  2:28 PM
Have Gallo work off a high screen, with the option to do the P&R, drive, or kick it out.

I thought that they might have had Randolph doing this type of thing, too, but his passing is not so dependable.

Gallo's biggest limitation is that his midrange game is not so hot at this point, but he seems to be able to get to the basket most of the time he wants to, and he does not turn the ball over very often.

Don't see why Fields cannot do something like this someday, too.

Isn't this was Hedu was essentially doing in his final year with Orlando, by the way?

No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
crzymdups
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11/18/2010  2:36 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/18/2010  2:36 PM
Paladin55 wrote:Have Gallo work off a high screen, with the option to do the P&R, drive, or kick it out.

I thought that they might have had Randolph doing this type of thing, too, but his passing is not so dependable.

Gallo's biggest limitation is that his midrange game is not so hot at this point, but he seems to be able to get to the basket most of the time he wants to, and he does not turn the ball over very often.

Don't see why Fields cannot do something like this someday, too.

Isn't this was Hedu was essentially doing in his final year with Orlando, by the way?

Agree with all this.

I thought Hedo was REALLY valuable for Orlando in their playoffs run in 2009. I thought it was dumb of them to essentially ditch him for nothing. He was a big time playmaker for Orlando on the wing.

Gallo used to be a freaking PG. We should really be using him in a similar way to the way Orlando used Hedo.

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earthmansurfer
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11/18/2010  2:53 PM
I pretty much agree with this thinking Martin. Amare is going to attract attention and that opens things up for everyone else. We just hadn't been hitting our shots and Amare was trying to do to much, at least on occasion.

We simply need to keep the ball movement going and take the best shot. Oh, that sounds like SSOL. Clearly Amare is a great player and should get his 20+ points a night, but not as the first option because that is what the defense expects. Raymond needs to be a bit more creative and if that doesn't work I say we go on a Fields experiment with him handling the ball more, as well as Gallo.

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. Albert Einstein
MDA offense got it backwards: Amare should be last option not first option

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