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The mindset that is killing the Knicks
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CrushAlot
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11/14/2010  12:44 PM
From Knickerblogger:

For stat-heads, they’ll want to shake their heads at this D’Antoni quote, and Hahn’s miss on the analysis of it.

But D’Antoni sees the three as “an awesome weapon” and explained the mathematics in how shooting just 33 percent from three is equal to 50 percent from two. But what happens when you shoot zero percent from three and all of those long rebounds turn into momentum-changing transition baskets for the team you were once clobbering by 21 points in a dead arena?

First, I find it interesting that some analysts will talk about how three pointers are more likely to be recovered by the offense, while Hahn posits that they are more likely to turn into fast break points. So anti-number-ites, is a missed three point shot good for the offense or defense? Second he missed the obvious, which is that a two pointer is more likely to result in a trip to the free throw line, hence the 50%/33% analogy doesn’t hold. Three pointers are beneficial to an offense, but only at a rate higher than 33% since they are unlikely to come with some free throws. I wonder what D’Antoni would say if asked that specifically?

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tj23
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11/14/2010  12:50 PM
I dont have a problem with his philosophy, just his coaching/teaching. How can the pick and roll master not get the pnr to work with a solid PG and the best finishing big man in the league? He always says that his players will eventually learn what good shots are. Well how about you just teach them what good shots are!!!??!
izybx
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11/14/2010  12:54 PM
we need to cut the three point attempts in half. 15-20 a game should provide the "spacing" that Dantoni loves so much. So long as were shooting 30 a game were not going to win many games with this club...
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ramtour420
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11/14/2010  3:21 PM
When you miss(and you miss most with 3 pointers) you are giving the other team opportunities(points). The math is not relevant, because free throws more than make up for the math of 3 pointers(need 9 shots @33% from 3 to put 9 points up, need 10 shots from 2 @50% to put 10 points up = i don't see a clear advantage even from the math point)
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GustavBahler
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11/14/2010  4:28 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/14/2010  4:28 PM
I want D'Antoni to make adjustments during the game. If the threes aren't falling, tell them to move in closer and get a better look. When the outside game isn't working at all, tell them to go inside more. And give the rookies more room to learn. He has too short a leash on them and its counterproductive to call out someone like Fields who is exceeding almost everyone's expectations. This isn't anything radical but it seems to be to D'Antoni.
martin
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11/14/2010  4:35 PM
GustavBahler wrote:I want D'Antoni to make adjustments during the game. If the threes aren't falling, tell them to move in closer and get a better look. When the outside game isn't working at all, tell them to go inside more.

More restrictions!

GustavBahler wrote:And give the rookies more room to learn. He has too short a leash on them and its counterproductive to call out someone like Fields who is exceeding almost everyone's expectations. This isn't anything radical but it seems to be to D'Antoni.

Less restrictions!

Outside of Felton, Amare, Turiaf, Knicks are all-around a young team. Both Felton and Amare are not clicking and we all see that. And both are pressing.

What fine line can we all draw to use around AR, Gallo, Moz, TD, Fields, Walker, Chandler?

Are young guy mistakes complicating the PnR? Is that in turn making it a 3point fest? Is it all, in turn, hyped and over analyzed by the media and fans?

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misterearl
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11/14/2010  5:01 PM
The mindset that is killing the Knicks is the mindset of impatience.

Whether it is the impatience to rush a three point shot in response to a opponents run, or the impatience with diaper dandy Anthony Randolph or the impatience with Amar'e to play like 100 million dollars, it is never dull in Knicksland.

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GustavBahler
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11/14/2010  5:16 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/14/2010  5:17 PM
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:I want D'Antoni to make adjustments during the game. If the threes aren't falling, tell them to move in closer and get a better look. When the outside game isn't working at all, tell them to go inside more.

More restrictions!

GustavBahler wrote:And give the rookies more room to learn. He has too short a leash on them and its counterproductive to call out someone like Fields who is exceeding almost everyone's expectations. This isn't anything radical but it seems to be to D'Antoni.

Less restrictions!

Outside of Felton, Amare, Turiaf, Knicks are all-around a young team. Both Felton and Amare are not clicking and we all see that. And both are pressing.

What fine line can we all draw to use around AR, Gallo, Moz, TD, Fields, Walker, Chandler?

Are young guy mistakes complicating the PnR? Is that in turn making it a 3point fest? Is it all, in turn, hyped and over analyzed by the media and fans?

Good questions and good points, it is a balancing act. I'm not buying that its the young guys who are screwing up the P&R as D'Antoni claims, at least not enough to justify their lack of success in running it. The only restrictions I want to put on them is in effect that when you are in a hole, stop digging. He is giving some players more room than others which makes sense but not to the extent where he gives some players too much room and others too little which I believe is what he is doing now. When guys can jack up threes all day without any repercussions, and then another one gets pulled for one bad play then I believe we have a problem.

martin
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11/14/2010  6:13 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:I want D'Antoni to make adjustments during the game. If the threes aren't falling, tell them to move in closer and get a better look. When the outside game isn't working at all, tell them to go inside more.

More restrictions!

GustavBahler wrote:And give the rookies more room to learn. He has too short a leash on them and its counterproductive to call out someone like Fields who is exceeding almost everyone's expectations. This isn't anything radical but it seems to be to D'Antoni.

Less restrictions!

Outside of Felton, Amare, Turiaf, Knicks are all-around a young team. Both Felton and Amare are not clicking and we all see that. And both are pressing.

What fine line can we all draw to use around AR, Gallo, Moz, TD, Fields, Walker, Chandler?

Are young guy mistakes complicating the PnR? Is that in turn making it a 3point fest? Is it all, in turn, hyped and over analyzed by the media and fans?

Good questions and good points, it is a balancing act. I'm not buying that its the young guys who are screwing up the P&R as D'Antoni claims, at least not enough to justify their lack of success in running it. The only restrictions I want to put on them is in effect that when you are in a hole, stop digging. He is giving some players more room than others which makes sense but not to the extent where he gives some players too much room and others too little which I believe is what he is doing now. When guys can jack up threes all day without any repercussions, and then another one gets pulled for one bad play then I believe we have a problem.

there is no doubt in my mind that MDA knows that Felton and Amare are clearly the main ****-ups running the PnR and threw out Fields' name as both a for-instance for 1 small part that could also be cleaned up and to get media focus away from them.

I think you would also agree with me that there are differently types of mistakes a player can make: playing 1-on-3 and driving head down into traffic for the 50th time after you have been told not to is much worse than rushing a 3point shot after you just went 4-5. Clearly some players have more rope than others for whatever reason. (PS I actually thought AR was having a good game right up until his TO. He was dribbling the ball up the court with 2 PGs right next to him and decided to throw the ball away in the opposite direction over just stopping and/or handing the ball off to Felton or TD. WOW.)

It surely is a balancing act. A tough one.

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martin
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11/14/2010  6:21 PM
I remember Kobe in his first few years on the Lakers under Phil Jackson. Dude was even younger than any of the Knicks' young pups but I think the point still holds: he would shoot and shoot and shoot and take more bad shots after his first round of bad shots. And Phil kept playing him.

Do you tell the player when to shoot and make him afraid to shoot? Or give him some rope and hope he figures it out with some time? and how much time is too much? 5 shots? 5 games worth? 1 years worth?

After 2 years in the league Kobe was still a pretty bad overall shooter, at right around 42%. Westbrook shot 40% over his first 2 years. Durant was awful his first year and much better his second (this guy is a is pretty much pegged as super star and i'll assume his learning curve is smaller than most).

We want to groom our young guys AND win basketball games, which could be at polar ends of being able to achieve both.

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GustavBahler
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11/14/2010  6:53 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/14/2010  6:54 PM
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
martin wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:I want D'Antoni to make adjustments during the game. If the threes aren't falling, tell them to move in closer and get a better look. When the outside game isn't working at all, tell them to go inside more.

More restrictions!

GustavBahler wrote:And give the rookies more room to learn. He has too short a leash on them and its counterproductive to call out someone like Fields who is exceeding almost everyone's expectations. This isn't anything radical but it seems to be to D'Antoni.

Less restrictions!

Outside of Felton, Amare, Turiaf, Knicks are all-around a young team. Both Felton and Amare are not clicking and we all see that. And both are pressing.

What fine line can we all draw to use around AR, Gallo, Moz, TD, Fields, Walker, Chandler?

Are young guy mistakes complicating the PnR? Is that in turn making it a 3point fest? Is it all, in turn, hyped and over analyzed by the media and fans?

Good questions and good points, it is a balancing act. I'm not buying that its the young guys who are screwing up the P&R as D'Antoni claims, at least not enough to justify their lack of success in running it. The only restrictions I want to put on them is in effect that when you are in a hole, stop digging. He is giving some players more room than others which makes sense but not to the extent where he gives some players too much room and others too little which I believe is what he is doing now. When guys can jack up threes all day without any repercussions, and then another one gets pulled for one bad play then I believe we have a problem.

there is no doubt in my mind that MDA knows that Felton and Amare are clearly the main ****-ups running the PnR and threw out Fields' name as both a for-instance for 1 small part that could also be cleaned up and to get media focus away from them.

I think you would also agree with me that there are differently types of mistakes a player can make: playing 1-on-3 and driving head down into traffic for the 50th time after you have been told not to is much worse than rushing a 3point shot after you just went 4-5. Clearly some players have more rope than others for whatever reason. (PS I actually thought AR was having a good game right up until his TO. He was dribbling the ball up the court with 2 PGs right next to him and decided to throw the ball away in the opposite direction over just stopping and/or handing the ball off to Felton or TD. WOW.)

It surely is a balancing act. A tough one.

I definitely agree, I'm talking about players who take tough shots when other opportunities are available, better opportunities, and they are doing it over and over again. I agree about AR as well, they really don't seem to know what to do with him and it doesn't look like they are running any plays for him either. It would help boost his confidence. You can tell that he wants to bring the ball upcourt and he has a good handle. Usually after he does that, AR makes a few good plays because it seems to energize him.

The mindset that is killing the Knicks

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