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D'Antoni not playing to win is a problem
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Vmart
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10/16/2010  10:35 PM
The Knicks do not know how to win and it is bothering me that D'Antoni isn't playing to win. I don't like it when he is throwing trash out there in the 4th quarter. I already have my doubts on this team being playoff caliber but now the coach seems like he has no interest in winning. I know it is preseason but I'm a believer that the foundation for winning in the regular season is set in preseason.
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arkrud
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10/16/2010  10:40 PM
Winning preseason games is a very important achivment.
It is more important that evaluate new roster, make players accoustomed to each other and the system and try some new stuff.
No brainer man...
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NYKBocker
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10/16/2010  11:26 PM
Pre-season is for trying out your rookies and fringe players. Specially in the 4th quarter when the games are on the line. You want to see how they will perform because more than likely they will not get a chance in the regular season. Clyde was asked when you start getting serious and he said the next game. 4 games before the 1st regular season game is the start to solidify your rotation.
CrushAlot
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10/16/2010  11:48 PM
I don't have a problem with how D'Antoni has handled the team this preseason so far and I am quick to jump on him for his faults. I do wish he would embrace developing Randolph like he seems to have Mozgov.
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martin
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10/17/2010  12:19 AM
CrushAlot wrote:I don't have a problem with how D'Antoni has handled the team this preseason so far and I am quick to jump on him for his faults. I do wish he would embrace developing Randolph like he seems to have Mozgov.

how is MDA handling Moz and AR differently?

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CrushAlot
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10/17/2010  12:30 AM
martin wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:I don't have a problem with how D'Antoni has handled the team this preseason so far and I am quick to jump on him for his faults. I do wish he would embrace developing Randolph like he seems to have Mozgov.

how is MDA handling Moz and AR differently?


He has said that he just wants to get Timofey more time on the court and more experience. He is always praising him and giving him positive feedback. Randolph has become a project, a guy that should be doing more, a guy that might not make the rotation. Those aren't exactly his words but I know you read the articles as much as I do and that is the message that is being sent out. The expectations of maturity are so much higher for the guy three years younger. Randolph could very well be in a tough spot with D'Antoni. I am worried that his situation is going to morph into a combination of Jordan Hill and Nate Robinsons last year.
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EnySpree
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10/17/2010  12:47 AM
D'antoni has been on record giving Anthony Randolph nuff respect. If you read the bull**** that the post and daily news print then of course you're gonna follow the agenda they are pushing.

Bottom line relax. Randolph is gonna be a reserve player getting minutes behind Amar'e, Gallo and Drago...its gonna be fine...don't worry. Azubuike will be in the mix too....so chil

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CrushAlot
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10/17/2010  12:51 AM
EnySpree wrote:D'antoni has been on record giving Anthony Randolph nuff respect. If you read the bull**** that the post and daily news print then of course you're gonna follow the agenda they are pushing.

Bottom line relax. Randolph is gonna be a reserve player getting minutes behind Amar'e, Gallo and Drago...its gonna be fine...don't worry. Azubuike will be in the mix too....so chil

He has been on record giving other guys respect and they are not around anymore. What he says and what he does are often to different things. I am psyched Randolph is on the team but I am not going to not worry about the coach who has played games with guys for the past two years. You don't have to go by the Post and Daily News, just look at the what has happened while he has been in NY.
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JohnWallace44
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10/17/2010  12:56 AM
I was embarrassed watching tonight's game. This is supposed to be a new era, but it looks like more of the same.

Mason, Ewing and Gallo have looked like they're not NBA talents. We're getting completely slaughtered on the boards by anyone and everyone even when we have a size advantage. We can't run pick and roll and its a pick and roll offense.

I found myself pining for Chris Duhon at points of this game.

It blows me away how poorly this team plays at times through all of the different regimes and groups of players here.

We need a dominant point guard to run this offense. All of the stuff about Melo and the injured CP3 is junk. We should have drafted Jennings, and we still need to address the problem. Until we get a dominant pick and roll PG here (and there are probably ten in the league) we will be a lotto bound bunch of losers making another string of excuses.

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AnubisADL
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10/17/2010  1:27 AM
JohnWallace44 wrote:I was embarrassed watching tonight's game. This is supposed to be a new era, but it looks like more of the same.

Mason, Ewing and Gallo have looked like they're not NBA talents. We're getting completely slaughtered on the boards by anyone and everyone even when we have a size advantage. We can't run pick and roll and its a pick and roll offense.

I found myself pining for Chris Duhon at points of this game.

It blows me away how poorly this team plays at times through all of the different regimes and groups of players here.

We need a dominant point guard to run this offense. All of the stuff about Melo and the injured CP3 is junk. We should have drafted Jennings, and we still need to address the problem. Until we get a dominant pick and roll PG here (and there are probably ten in the league) we will be a lotto bound bunch of losers making another string of excuses.

I think D'Antoni can win in NY. He just needs All star talent at 3 of the 5 positions. Gallo can be an Allstar ala Peja and Amare is already an all star. So all we need is an all star level guard.

Im still holding out hope we can get a guy like OJ Mayo in a trade.

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JohnWallace44
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10/17/2010  1:32 AM
Gallo is terrible. He's a fool's gold player. He brings nothing most nights and then shoots lights out once in a while so his stats end up looking decent.

We'd be better instantly without him on the team.

I'd trade him for any other starter in the league today.

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Juice
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10/17/2010  1:43 AM    LAST EDITED: 10/17/2010  1:44 AM
JohnWallace44 wrote:I was embarrassed watching tonight's game. This is supposed to be a new era, but it looks like more of the same.

Mason, Ewing and Gallo have looked like they're not NBA talents. We're getting completely slaughtered on the boards by anyone and everyone even when we have a size advantage. We can't run pick and roll and its a pick and roll offense.

I found myself pining for Chris Duhon at points of this game.

It blows me away how poorly this team plays at times through all of the different regimes and groups of players here.

We need a dominant point guard to run this offense. All of the stuff about Melo and the injured CP3 is junk. We should have drafted Jennings, and we still need to address the problem. Until we get a dominant pick and roll PG here (and there are probably ten in the league) we will be a lotto bound bunch of losers making another string of excuses.

Not sure about Jennings because if you look at his ast totals turnovers and shooting percentages, they're awful from his position. I think Jennings has a dynamic about him where his poor percentages could be masked but not enough. Funny thing is Ramon Sessions is having a better Pre-Season than Jennings as is Luke Ridnour. This will probably be the year we'll see the difference in the Picks made in 2008 and 2009(already traded away). There's no doubt in my mind we could have done better. I wanted us to trade badly for Kevin Martin or acquire Rudy Gay via trade. I also wanted us to draft Eric Gordon and T-Will. I believe Gallo can work but he should be playing the 4 spot like we were told he would play, although he's probably a natural 3. Until our coach implements a system to utilize our player's individual talents we're going nowhere.

Paladin55
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10/17/2010  2:15 AM
Preseason is the time to find out what you have on your roster, what your guys can do or not do, and how you can fit the pieces together so you have your best chance of winning when the games actually count.

Your best player was on the bench- why get annoyed that you don't win a game with your best player in street clothes?

I'm more annoyed that he has not run plays for guys like Randolph, Gallo, and Mosguv down low- so we can see what they can do in the post if we have certain match-ups.

I would also love to see some boxing out- one of the lost arts in today's NBA game.

There were some good moments yesterday, but you come away from the game with visions of our second string players taking the easy way out and jacking up jumpers instead of passing the ball around for a better shot.

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Paladin55
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10/17/2010  2:53 AM
JohnWallace44 wrote:Gallo is terrible. He's a fool's gold player. He brings nothing most nights and then shoots lights out once in a while so his stats end up looking decent.

We'd be better instantly without him on the team.

I'd trade him for any other starter in the league today.


You do have some kind of issue with Gallinari, don't you.

I don't know much about Facebook, but did Gallo reject some kind of request from you in some way or another?


You lose any credibility, IMO, when you lump him with Mason and Baby Ewing.

This is a big year for Gallo- by the end of the year you should see a pretty close approximation of the player he will become in his prime, although I think next season will give us the true picture of the kind of player he will end up as. I will be a bit disappointed if he becomes little more than a jump shooter, and his consistency at that aspect of his game has to improve, also, but saying that he "brings nothing most nights" overlooks the fact that he can do other things besides shoot.

I also find it interesting that your own namesake, John Wallace, was such a disappointment as a player, given his talent level- a guy who had some moments and some skills, but was never consistent enough to become the player some thought he could be, if I remember correctly.

I wonder how JohnWallace44 would have commented on the development of the real John Wallace, who was actually 23 by the end of his rookie season as a Knick, if he was now playing on this Knicks' squad. I expect that you would have defended him based on his potential, and pointed out that he still had a lot of time to improve.

Gallinari is far from a finished product, and may or may not become the player some think he can be, but he is not the problem with this team, and to think that the Knicks would instantly become a better team without him says more about where you are coming from, than where Gallinari is going.

No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
JohnWallace44
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10/17/2010  9:26 AM
I could't be more tired of the organizational kowtowing to this kid and all the feel good stories about D'Antoni and his dad.

I just don't know what he's supposed to be. Right now, he's a chuck and duck guy who goes 8-10 some nights and so his percentages end up looking decent, but when you're trying to put together a team that wins 50% of their games, you can't have a guy who puts up 3-13 numbers 2/3 of the time.

Chandler is far and away the better player at this point. He shoots a lower overall percentage, but he's consistent and based on the preseason he looks to have improved his shooting. Gallo's always made out to be this super intelligent player who "knows the game" which is total BS. How often have you seen Gallo pump fake his man and drive to the basket to draw a foul when the other team is right at the bonus? How often does he try to get a 2 for 1 at the end of quarters? Have you seen him use our pick and roll offense to get onto a guard and post him up? He never does that sheet. "He knows the game" is code for, "he's white and made it to the NBA" to me. Rautins "knows the game" and happens to be white. There's a difference.

I'm Italian. I'd love for this guy to be dominant, but he's just not. He doesn't even really stretch the defense.

This team looks like a disaster right now. I was pumped about Felton because of what he's done to us as an opponent, but he really doesn't seem to be able to initiate pick and roll. TD has looked better initiating offense and everyone knows my opinion on him as a point guard.

You know what really bothers me? This team always has some wierd assortment of players that have a major flaw. With Lee as the best player there was basically no back line defense. These guys have defense down to a point, but are all so skinny that they can't board and get pushed around. Felton can't run pick and roll. Duhon could run pcik and roll, but wasn't dynamic on offense. ZBo and Crawford were dominant scorers but had bad shot selection and couldn't play defense. Steph was a local legend but ate vasoline on occasion. Curry could dominate the low block but couldn't receive the ball and was terrible at everything else.

It always seemed like D'Antoni won with various groupings of players in Phoenix. I guess Nash was the constant, but this has been a little crazy here. He's going to get booted if he doesn't perform this season and I have always defended him as a coach. I mean, if having that Nash type of PG is so vital, why hasn't that been the priority? You'd think they would have jumped on Jennings or Teague or Beaubois or Maynor or Holiday if they knew that was the major issue to making this system go.

I can just smell that this season is going to be a constant stream of "if we only had a rebounder" and "what happened to Amar'e's pick and roll play?" Gallo would probably be perfect on OKC. I wonder if you could get back Maynor and Harden for Gallo and TD? That would give us a real pick and roll partner for Amar'e, AR and Mozgov while filling our glaring need for a shooting guard.

Walker and Chandler are more consistent shooters than Gallo anyway, so what are you losing?

I don't know what the answer is, but its frustrating as hell that we're playing this poorly after rebuilding again.

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knicks1248
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10/17/2010  12:21 PM
Your gonna run with nine guys, maybe a 6 min 10th guy on back to backs. When you start playing 12 guys to figure out what you got, it looks mumble jumble. No one gets into a rythem playing spot minutes, and it's no way to build chemistry.

MDA's is in a tough situation cause his talent is almost equal across the entire roster, aside from fields and Amare, no one has stood out..they look good for a few plays, and horrible on others.

PEJ, is trash and is only here out of respect for his father..i keep saying this, but some of you think otherwise,
AR is 21 and plays like it, gallo is taking baby steps, chandler is also taking baby steps, felton i trust will find his way, td will be a solid back up, fields should see more time then bill and mason...bill and mason should be traded for one play with there combine skills.

ES
martin
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10/17/2010  12:44 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
martin wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:I don't have a problem with how D'Antoni has handled the team this preseason so far and I am quick to jump on him for his faults. I do wish he would embrace developing Randolph like he seems to have Mozgov.

how is MDA handling Moz and AR differently?


He has said that he just wants to get Timofey more time on the court and more experience. He is always praising him and giving him positive feedback. Randolph has become a project, a guy that should be doing more, a guy that might not make the rotation. Those aren't exactly his words but I know you read the articles as much as I do and that is the message that is being sent out. The expectations of maturity are so much higher for the guy three years younger. Randolph could very well be in a tough spot with D'Antoni. I am worried that his situation is going to morph into a combination of Jordan Hill and Nate Robinsons last year.

another beat writer's perspective, via Alan Hahn:

An observation of Anthony Randolph: his experience with Don Nelson in Golden State must have really hurt him. The kid looks at D'Antoni every time he makes a mistake or is called for a foul. He is constantly looking toward the bench with a worried expression, as if he's waiting to be brow-beaten. The Knicks really have to get his confidence up before they can expect him to be as effective as his potential suggests. D'Antoni has been extremely supportive of him publicly.
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CrushAlot
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10/17/2010  1:00 PM
martin wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
martin wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:I don't have a problem with how D'Antoni has handled the team this preseason so far and I am quick to jump on him for his faults. I do wish he would embrace developing Randolph like he seems to have Mozgov.

how is MDA handling Moz and AR differently?


He has said that he just wants to get Timofey more time on the court and more experience. He is always praising him and giving him positive feedback. Randolph has become a project, a guy that should be doing more, a guy that might not make the rotation. Those aren't exactly his words but I know you read the articles as much as I do and that is the message that is being sent out. The expectations of maturity are so much higher for the guy three years younger. Randolph could very well be in a tough spot with D'Antoni. I am worried that his situation is going to morph into a combination of Jordan Hill and Nate Robinsons last year.

another beat writer's perspective, via Alan Hahn:

An observation of Anthony Randolph: his experience with Don Nelson in Golden State must have really hurt him. The kid looks at D'Antoni every time he makes a mistake or is called for a foul. He is constantly looking toward the bench with a worried expression, as if he's waiting to be brow-beaten. The Knicks really have to get his confidence up before they can expect him to be as effective as his potential suggests. D'Antoni has been extremely supportive of him publicly.
I just remember D'Antoni screaming at Randolph in an over the top way in the first or second preseason game. It was a topic on here, maybe in the game thread.
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martin
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10/17/2010  1:10 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
martin wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
martin wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:I don't have a problem with how D'Antoni has handled the team this preseason so far and I am quick to jump on him for his faults. I do wish he would embrace developing Randolph like he seems to have Mozgov.

how is MDA handling Moz and AR differently?


He has said that he just wants to get Timofey more time on the court and more experience. He is always praising him and giving him positive feedback. Randolph has become a project, a guy that should be doing more, a guy that might not make the rotation. Those aren't exactly his words but I know you read the articles as much as I do and that is the message that is being sent out. The expectations of maturity are so much higher for the guy three years younger. Randolph could very well be in a tough spot with D'Antoni. I am worried that his situation is going to morph into a combination of Jordan Hill and Nate Robinsons last year.

another beat writer's perspective, via Alan Hahn:

An observation of Anthony Randolph: his experience with Don Nelson in Golden State must have really hurt him. The kid looks at D'Antoni every time he makes a mistake or is called for a foul. He is constantly looking toward the bench with a worried expression, as if he's waiting to be brow-beaten. The Knicks really have to get his confidence up before they can expect him to be as effective as his potential suggests. D'Antoni has been extremely supportive of him publicly.
I just remember D'Antoni screaming at Randolph in an over the top way in the first or second preseason game. It was a topic on here, maybe in the game thread.

Yeah he did. It was after AR did his best Al Harrington impression, going 1-on-1 and shooting every time he touched the ball.

Best we put down the tabloid newspapers and their quick hit quotes. And I wouldn't take one flash from the camera to a screaming MDA to heart too much, his job is to shout instructions and point out mistakes by the young guys. Remember how he was killing fields for NOT shooting a wide open 3 early in the Minny preseason game?

I think it will be more about how quickly the young guys adjust their games. Did Moz get a moving screen foul the last 2 games? Not sure he did, that's a good adjustment. And AR in the second half of the latest Boston game was moving the ball a lot quicker. And Fields got the message about rebounding.

Are those guys done yet making the leap to full time guys who a head coach can trust. No way! But it's a start.

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10/17/2010  1:30 PM
martin wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
martin wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
martin wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:I don't have a problem with how D'Antoni has handled the team this preseason so far and I am quick to jump on him for his faults. I do wish he would embrace developing Randolph like he seems to have Mozgov.

how is MDA handling Moz and AR differently?


He has said that he just wants to get Timofey more time on the court and more experience. He is always praising him and giving him positive feedback. Randolph has become a project, a guy that should be doing more, a guy that might not make the rotation. Those aren't exactly his words but I know you read the articles as much as I do and that is the message that is being sent out. The expectations of maturity are so much higher for the guy three years younger. Randolph could very well be in a tough spot with D'Antoni. I am worried that his situation is going to morph into a combination of Jordan Hill and Nate Robinsons last year.

another beat writer's perspective, via Alan Hahn:

An observation of Anthony Randolph: his experience with Don Nelson in Golden State must have really hurt him. The kid looks at D'Antoni every time he makes a mistake or is called for a foul. He is constantly looking toward the bench with a worried expression, as if he's waiting to be brow-beaten. The Knicks really have to get his confidence up before they can expect him to be as effective as his potential suggests. D'Antoni has been extremely supportive of him publicly.
I just remember D'Antoni screaming at Randolph in an over the top way in the first or second preseason game. It was a topic on here, maybe in the game thread.

Yeah he did. It was after AR did his best Al Harrington impression, going 1-on-1 and shooting every time he touched the ball.

Best we put down the tabloid newspapers and their quick hit quotes. And I wouldn't take one flash from the camera to a screaming MDA to heart too much, his job is to shout instructions and point out mistakes by the young guys. Remember how he was killing fields for NOT shooting a wide open 3 early in the Minny preseason game?

I think it will be more about how quickly the young guys adjust their games. Did Moz get a moving screen foul the last 2 games? Not sure he did, that's a good adjustment. And AR in the second half of the latest Boston game was moving the ball a lot quicker. And Fields got the message about rebounding.

Are those guys done yet making the leap to full time guys who a head coach can trust. No way! But it's a start.

Expect Moz to give up that 2 hands going straight up crap going forward too.

if you look for it you can see improvement in these guys....when the right ones are on the floor. Consistency? Too early for that
Other than Amar'e and WilChan nobodies game seems to just be ready.

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D'Antoni not playing to win is a problem

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