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So Melo to Chi-town held up by Noah, but the Knicks don't have the assets?
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grillco
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9/22/2010  4:02 PM
Okay Noah's a nice player, but do you prevent your team from getting one of the best scorers in the game for a 11ppg and 11rpg center? I guess I was spoiled by Ewing, but a 11 and 11 guy is nice complimentary player, i.e. Oakley, Horace Grant, etc. No team would have held up acquiring an arguably elite player like Melo (I think he is, but there have been countless posts to the contrary, which is fine) for a solid, maybe great, but clearly NOT elite bigman. I know he'd just be a part of trade, so we aren't talking straight up, but still. I think most teams would throw in Noah.

Is Noah, for his position, really THAT much better than Danilo. I don't know, you're trading rebounds and blocks for points. I he better than Randolph, yes, because he gets 4.5 more boards and has a 6% better shooting average, but that's not uncommon from guys playing in the paint. But they are all still developing and can improve, stagnate, or even decline at anytime. And are draft picks really any better than young players who have been drafted and proven they have skills and those skills are still developing? It's the same crap shoot in the long run. So I hate to think the draft picks would really prevent the Knicks from having a real shot at landing Melo, but the Knicks have been mismanaging picks for at least a decade (between drafting the wrong people or giving 10 of them to Chi-town for Curry).

Disjointed rant over.

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AnubisADL
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9/22/2010  4:17 PM
This is just posturing by Chicago. Chicago isnt going to pay Rose and Melo the Max and pay Boozer and Noah.

Noah will be gone if Denver is ready to negotiate.

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BigDaddyG
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9/22/2010  4:23 PM
I dunno. The way that Chicago team is built now, Noah is extremely important. Boozer is short for his position and isn't that good defensively. Noah is good compliment to Boozer in that he blocks shots, throws his body around and doesn't need the ball to be effective. I don't think the question is whether Noah is better than Melo, it's whether the difference between whoever they get to replace Noah is greater than the difference between Melo and Deng.
Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
martin
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9/22/2010  4:40 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:I dunno. The way that Chicago team is built now, Noah is extremely important. Boozer is short for his position and isn't that good defensively. Noah is good compliment to Boozer in that he blocks shots, throws his body around and doesn't need the ball to be effective. I don't think the question is whether Noah is better than Melo, it's whether the difference between whoever they get to replace Noah is greater than the difference between Melo and Deng.

Im in this boat. CHI isn't going to get Melo by just giving up Deng and so one would assume Noah is next in line (whether in combo or a piece with salary extras). So, you are left with no C, Booze, Melo, Brewer/Korver, Rose. Very small and all offense. And Rose is not a classic pass first PG.

Korver, Brewer, CJ Watson were all acquired recently, so they can't be traded until Dec, right? (I could be wrong on that).

Noah, if he is extended would be a base year compensation player.

If you don't match Noah and Deng for a Melo trade, who else could CHI trade that would match up salary-wise and fulfill this "assets" request Denver is making?

Also, CHI has to send out $14M in a trade for Melo only.

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jazz74
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9/22/2010  4:41 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:I dunno. The way that Chicago team is built now, Noah is extremely important. Boozer is short for his position and isn't that good defensively. Noah is good compliment to Boozer in that he blocks shots, throws his body around and doesn't need the ball to be effective. I don't think the question is whether Noah is better than Melo, it's whether the difference between whoever they get to replace Noah is greater than the difference between Melo and Deng.

that is true. also if they do trade noah, the only legit center option is a rookie. good luck going against orlando, miami or even boston with a frontcourt like that.

AnubisADL
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9/22/2010  5:19 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/22/2010  5:19 PM
When you got Boozer, Melo, and Rose you can get by with a Tyson Chandler type at Center. If they trade for Melo they will have access to the MLE this upcoming summer.
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Allanfan20
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9/22/2010  5:20 PM
As a Knicks fan, I'm hoping the Bulls trade Noah and other prospects for Melo and sign him long term.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
martin
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9/22/2010  5:21 PM
AnubisADL wrote:When you got Boozer, Melo, and Rose you can get by with a Tyson Chandler type at Center. If they trade for Melo they will have access to the MLE this upcoming summer.

name them.

also note that Chandler makes almost $13M this year.

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AnubisADL
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9/22/2010  5:33 PM
martin wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:When you got Boozer, Melo, and Rose you can get by with a Tyson Chandler type at Center. If they trade for Melo they will have access to the MLE this upcoming summer.

name them.

also note that Chandler makes almost $13M this year.

Summer Free agents:

Samuel Dalembert
Tyson Chandler
Eddy Curry
Kwame Brown
Nazr Mohammed
Dan Gadzuric
Hilton Armstrong
Jason Collins
Miami's Rejects

Chandler isn't going make anywhere near 10 million after his current deal.

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Panos
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9/22/2010  5:35 PM
AnubisADL wrote:
martin wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:When you got Boozer, Melo, and Rose you can get by with a Tyson Chandler type at Center. If they trade for Melo they will have access to the MLE this upcoming summer.

name them.

also note that Chandler makes almost $13M this year.

Summer Free agents:

Samuel Dalembert
Tyson Chandler
Eddy Curry
Kwame Brown
Nazr Mohammed
Dan Gadzuric
Hilton Armstrong
Jason Collins
Miami's Rejects

Chandler isn't going make anywhere near 10 million after his current deal.

That's a sad list.

martin
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9/22/2010  5:42 PM
AnubisADL wrote:
martin wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:When you got Boozer, Melo, and Rose you can get by with a Tyson Chandler type at Center. If they trade for Melo they will have access to the MLE this upcoming summer.

name them.

also note that Chandler makes almost $13M this year.

Summer Free agents:

Samuel Dalembert
Tyson Chandler
Eddy Curry
Kwame Brown
Nazr Mohammed
Dan Gadzuric
Hilton Armstrong
Jason Collins
Miami's Rejects

Chandler isn't going make anywhere near 10 million after his current deal.

nor will he make anything near the MLE.

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ATrain
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9/22/2010  6:27 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:I dunno. The way that Chicago team is built now, Noah is extremely important. Boozer is short for his position and isn't that good defensively. Noah is good compliment to Boozer in that he blocks shots, throws his body around and doesn't need the ball to be effective. I don't think the question is whether Noah is better than Melo, it's whether the difference between whoever they get to replace Noah is greater than the difference between Melo and Deng.

I agree. The Bulls need Noah.

grillco
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9/22/2010  6:42 PM
Allanfan20 wrote:As a Knicks fan, I'm hoping the Bulls trade Noah and other prospects for Melo and sign him long term.

No love or even like for Melo?

AnubisADL
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9/22/2010  6:45 PM
martin wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:
martin wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:When you got Boozer, Melo, and Rose you can get by with a Tyson Chandler type at Center. If they trade for Melo they will have access to the MLE this upcoming summer.

name them.

also note that Chandler makes almost $13M this year.

Summer Free agents:

Samuel Dalembert
Tyson Chandler
Eddy Curry
Kwame Brown
Nazr Mohammed
Dan Gadzuric
Hilton Armstrong
Jason Collins
Miami's Rejects

Chandler isn't going make anywhere near 10 million after his current deal.

nor will he make anything near the MLE.

So you propose an often injured Chandler is going to make more than the MLE? Jermaine O'neal got the MLE and he is better than Chandler.

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grillco
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9/22/2010  7:29 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:I dunno. The way that Chicago team is built now, Noah is extremely important. Boozer is short for his position and isn't that good defensively. Noah is good compliment to Boozer in that he blocks shots, throws his body around and doesn't need the ball to be effective. I don't think the question is whether Noah is better than Melo, it's whether the difference between whoever they get to replace Noah is greater than the difference between Melo and Deng.

I wasn't asking if Melo was better than Noah. I thnk the answer to that is obvious as one is a player you build a team around and the other would be an important (maybe the most important) role player on most teams. My point is that I wouldn't hesitate to throw Noah into a package for Melo. And further that I think Danilo and Randolph are only a short step down from Noah and either packaged with Chandler is a solid offer even without a trio of imminent draft picks, but they can still get the Knicks' 2015, 2019, and 2025 picks. ;-)

smackeddog
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9/23/2010  4:52 AM
I don't see Noah signing an extension unless he gets a no trade clause put in- I suspect as it was reported earlier, Chicago are using these trade rumours as leverage to get him to sign to lower figure. If the Bulls do trade him, there's no way he'd re-sign with the Nuggets, which means we could make a play for him next summer in the event of us missing out on Carmello- how would be people feel about that? Would he be a good complement to Amar'e?

I don't think a re-signed Noah makes sense from Denvers point of view- he's a complementary player, and won't really have any value on a team that will stink like Denver will once they've traded away Carmello, Billups, Martin etc. Plus he'd be taking up a lot of cap room that could be better spent on a player that would make a difference. They'd be stupid to agree to take Deng too due to his contract, and unlike us, Chicago has no young players of value (ha!). They have Charlottes pick though. I think the only way Carmello ends up on Chicago is via a 3 way if another team will take Deng or Noah.

I don't really think chicago needs him though or that he'd be a good fit with Rose- if I was Chicago I'd just focus on re-signing Noah, and give Carmello a miss.

GustavBahler
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9/23/2010  7:02 AM
Bulls should trade Noah and make a run at Marc Gasol in 2011. They'll make the playoffs but I don't believe they have enough to be a legit contender this season.
Knixkik
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9/23/2010  8:10 AM
A big man that will come up next season that won't get much said about him is Samuel Dalembert. He's not has good as Noah or Chandler but is very durable and is one of the better rebounders and shotblockers in the league. In fact, if we have the cap space after getting either Melo or Parker, i wouldn't mind getting him as he would be an upgrade over Turiaf. Sactown won't resign him because Cousins will be the center there, so hopefully he can be had for mid level money. Also, if Chi deals Noah for Melo, Dalembert would be a reasonable replacement. But he is very athletic and can hit mid range jumpers, so he would be solid for us if we feel we are still missing a quality starting center.
smackeddog
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9/23/2010  10:32 AM
Knixkik wrote:A big man that will come up next season that won't get much said about him is Samuel Dalembert. He's not has good as Noah or Chandler but is very durable and is one of the better rebounders and shotblockers in the league. In fact, if we have the cap space after getting either Melo or Parker, i wouldn't mind getting him as he would be an upgrade over Turiaf. Sactown won't resign him because Cousins will be the center there, so hopefully he can be had for mid level money. Also, if Chi deals Noah for Melo, Dalembert would be a reasonable replacement. But he is very athletic and can hit mid range jumpers, so he would be solid for us if we feel we are still missing a quality starting center.

You look at his stats and you think he seems like a pretty good player, and I remember him doing well in the playoffs before he got his big pay day, but the thing that puts me off him is that Sixer fans HATED him for years- they were desperate to get rid of him almost since he signed the big contract and seem to have nothing but bad things to say about him.

fishmike
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9/23/2010  10:40 AM
AnubisADL wrote:
martin wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:
martin wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:When you got Boozer, Melo, and Rose you can get by with a Tyson Chandler type at Center. If they trade for Melo they will have access to the MLE this upcoming summer.

name them.

also note that Chandler makes almost $13M this year.

Summer Free agents:

Samuel Dalembert
Tyson Chandler
Eddy Curry
Kwame Brown
Nazr Mohammed
Dan Gadzuric
Hilton Armstrong
Jason Collins
Miami's Rejects

Chandler isn't going make anywhere near 10 million after his current deal.

nor will he make anything near the MLE.

So you propose an often injured Chandler is going to make more than the MLE? Jermaine O'neal got the MLE and he is better than Chandler.

maybe 5 years ago. Chandler is on a par w/ Ariza and Artest as far as contract. We will see if he makes a big step forward but if he doesnt he's certainly a full MLE type or certainly more. Jermaine Oneil has one leg. Bos will limit he and Shaq's minutes and just hope to have enough big healthy bodies come spring to make another title run.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
So Melo to Chi-town held up by Noah, but the Knicks don't have the assets?

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