BRIGGS wrote:I look at our off-season like this

we lost Lee +Harrington and some other bit players

gained

7-1 Mosgov
6-10 Stoudemire
6-11 Randolph
6-10 Turriaf

6-8 Fields
6-6 Azubukie
6-5 Mason

6-0 Felton

I have to think that is an A- atleast

Absolutely. The plan was to get LeDouche and us not getting him should not be factored in to the grade. You grade our off-season moves if we significantly upgrade our roster. The Godfather did that and more. His plan B and execution was outstanding and I would even say that it should be a solid A.

We have proven talent (Amare), upside and youth (Gallo, AR, The Mayor). We also have a PG that looks like will be able to execute the game plan.

b seems like a fair grade, or maybe a b+ for the knicks.

if all of the knick moves pan out it could be higher, but i don't know if all the teams you are listing are that good.

the wiz are gonna make that huge of a step? it would be an even bigger change in wins than what some are predicting for us (40-45 wins) and others think is too big of an improvement to expect.

i also don't really know what mda is going to do to "emphasize defense?" he talks about it plenty.

johnson had some good years, but he also was fired for a reason as well. the nets will be better, but i also don't see them superior to the knicks.

indiana...okay, improved as well, but more than the knicks?

philly has the best shot at competing for the playoffs other than us who didn't make it last year, i think. collins should make them better, but they have some guys who have not stepped up as expected, or regressed last year. i can't really say that about any knicks with us other than curry, but he doesn't really count. holiday's growth could be key, but he's still has a ways to go, i think.

larry brown didn't have the knicks playing defense when he coached here. he now has defensive minded players who are the team leaders in wallace and jackson, but they also lost felton. they'll be in the mix for the last few seeds, but i think they took a minor step back, although livingston could be a good signing.

btw, my points about overrating the coaching of defense is that i believe it comes down to at least some of the best players on a team, especially if they are the leaders, commitment to it. a coach can try to get them to play it hard all he wants but without players willingness to, unless you want to play smash mouth slow it down jeff van gundy style (not accepted by the nba's rules anymore anyway), which also requires the right players. the knicks have more defenders this year so i expect an improvement. not necessarily top 15 but not bottom 5.

PresIke wrote:the wiz's pieces are not as solid as ours, and arenas is a shell of his previous self, it seems.

b seems like a fair grade, or maybe a b+ for the knicks.

if all of the knick moves pan out it could be higher, but i don't know if all the teams you are listing are that good.

the wiz are gonna make that huge of a step? it would be an even bigger change in wins than what some are predicting for us (40-45 wins) and others think is too big of an improvement to expect.

i also don't really know what mda is going to do to "emphasize defense?" he talks about it plenty.

johnson had some good years, but he also was fired for a reason as well. the nets will be better, but i also don't see them superior to the knicks.

indiana...okay, improved as well, but more than the knicks?

philly has the best shot at competing for the playoffs other than us who didn't make it last year, i think. collins should make them better, but they have some guys who have not stepped up as expected, or regressed last year. i can't really say that about any knicks with us other than curry, but he doesn't really count. holiday's growth could be key, but he's still has a ways to go, i think.

larry brown didn't have the knicks playing defense when he coached here. he now has defensive minded players who are the team leaders in wallace and jackson, but they also lost felton. they'll be in the mix for the last few seeds, but i think they took a minor step back, although livingston could be a good signing.

btw, my points about overrating the coaching of defense is that i believe it comes down to at least some of the best players on a team, especially if they are the leaders, commitment to it. a coach can try to get them to play it hard all he wants but without players willingness to, unless you want to play smash mouth slow it down jeff van gundy style (not accepted by the nba's rules anymore anyway), which also requires the right players. the knicks have more defenders this year so i expect an improvement. not necessarily top 15 but not bottom 5.

If you take a look at last years standings you can see we were BARELY better than the Wizards last year. Im not going to discount Wall, Arenas, and Hinrich. New Jersey was tanking last year so I cant take their record seriously.

David Lee was putting up nice stats here and so will Amare. I think Amare will average more points and rebounds this year but that's about it. If Gallo and Randolph dont turn it on early in the season we are in trouble.

We have a decent team this year but I dont see us head and shoulders above those teams I listed. You can also factor in a team like Detroit who was devastated by injuries last season.

PresIke wrote:it isn't just about stats for lee and amar'e it's about who is a more commanding presence on the offensive end of the court, especially. lee was not getting double teamed. amar'e likely will. amar'e will also block more shots and play slightly better defense.

i hear you on the wiz, but it would be a greater leap. that was the point. wall is also still going to be a rookie. yes, we saw jennings be key, and hinrich will be a help, but they have many more holes or are relying on question marks in other positions than we have. blatche and mcgee are still works in progress, to me. the wiz could be better than the knicks, but i wouldn't bet on that.

would you only dismiss the nets record as about tanking, and also not consider that the knicks were tinkering with the lineup constantly, changing the roster via trades to rid of contracts (etc.) looking to the summer fa market, and filled with 1 year contracts that had one foot out the door? that affected the knicks record too.

the nets do not have a player of amar'e's caliber on the team. harris took a step back as well, it seemed. they are a team full of role players. again, i expect the nets to be better, but a legit playoff caliber team? that seems to be a reach.

i'm also not in the 45 win expectation for the knicks. i say 40 or 41 wins is most likely.

- Amare is an allstar. However Bosh is an allstar too and he couldnt get his team to the playoffs in the East. Amare still plays lackadaisical defense.

- Im not discounting a healthy Arenas or the #1 lottery pic. Arenas can still light it up and Wall will likely be rookie of the year.

- The Nets arent likley to make the playoffs but they are likely to win ALOT more games.

The only thing that really concerns me about this team is the durability of our guys over a full season.

AnubisADL wrote:

PresIke wrote:the wiz's pieces are not as solid as ours, and arenas is a shell of his previous self, it seems.

b seems like a fair grade, or maybe a b+ for the knicks.

if all of the knick moves pan out it could be higher, but i don't know if all the teams you are listing are that good.

the wiz are gonna make that huge of a step? it would be an even bigger change in wins than what some are predicting for us (40-45 wins) and others think is too big of an improvement to expect.

i also don't really know what mda is going to do to "emphasize defense?" he talks about it plenty.

johnson had some good years, but he also was fired for a reason as well. the nets will be better, but i also don't see them superior to the knicks.

indiana...okay, improved as well, but more than the knicks?

philly has the best shot at competing for the playoffs other than us who didn't make it last year, i think. collins should make them better, but they have some guys who have not stepped up as expected, or regressed last year. i can't really say that about any knicks with us other than curry, but he doesn't really count. holiday's growth could be key, but he's still has a ways to go, i think.

larry brown didn't have the knicks playing defense when he coached here. he now has defensive minded players who are the team leaders in wallace and jackson, but they also lost felton. they'll be in the mix for the last few seeds, but i think they took a minor step back, although livingston could be a good signing.

btw, my points about overrating the coaching of defense is that i believe it comes down to at least some of the best players on a team, especially if they are the leaders, commitment to it. a coach can try to get them to play it hard all he wants but without players willingness to, unless you want to play smash mouth slow it down jeff van gundy style (not accepted by the nba's rules anymore anyway), which also requires the right players. the knicks have more defenders this year so i expect an improvement. not necessarily top 15 but not bottom 5.

If you take a look at last years standings you can see we were BARELY better than the Wizards last year. Im not going to discount Wall, Arenas, and Hinrich. New Jersey was tanking last year so I cant take their record seriously.

David Lee was putting up nice stats here and so will Amare. I think Amare will average more points and rebounds this year but that's about it. If Gallo and Randolph dont turn it on early in the season we are in trouble.

We have a decent team this year but I dont see us head and shoulders above those teams I listed. You can also factor in a team like Detroit who was devastated by injuries last season.

They had the worst chemistry in the league, at one point they had Rip, AI, Ben Gordon, Rodney stucky and will bynum...uhhh...what about having chris wilcox, jason maxiell, charlie vill and Ben wallace.

That sounds and looks a mess...

knicks1248 wrote:They had the worst chemistry in the league, at one point they had Rip, AI, Ben Gordon, Rodney stucky and will bynum...uhhh...what about having chris wilcox, jason maxiell, charlie vill and Ben wallace.

That sounds and looks a mess...

And we finished 2 games ahead of them.

Marv wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Panos wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I look at our off-season like this

we lost Lee +Harrington and some other bit players

gained

7-1 Mosgov
6-10 Stoudemire
6-11 Randolph
6-10 Turriaf

6-8 Fields
6-6 Azubukie
6-5 Mason

6-0 Felton

I have to think that is an A- atleast

I think you have to factor in the picks we traded to Houston.
Although they were not done in the summer they were done to facilitate the summer action.

well have to wait and see on that--I think with Randolph Fields Mosgov--I feel we almost added 3 lottery type pick talents--of course that a wait and see. I was and am still against that move but you have to look forward in life.

fields and mosgov are lottery type pick talents? i think that's a huge overstatement. i think these guys went on the cheap for good reason and they're great pick-ups for an organization to take a look at and see what can be developed with them. but lottery type talents - unh-unh. This is what over-hypes expectations and sets guys up for overblown disappointment early in the season when a team has to slowly feel its way through the process of building up a core rotation.

I don't think either of those guys are going to play a big part. If curry comes to camp in remotley good shape, MDA has already shown the propensity for playing VETS in the finally year of there contracts, especially if there trade bait.

AnubisADL wrote:
If you take a look at last years standings you can see we were BARELY better than the Wizards last year. Im not going to discount Wall, Arenas, and Hinrich. New Jersey was tanking last year so I cant take their record seriously.

David Lee was putting up nice stats here and so will Amare. I think Amare will average more points and rebounds this year but that's about it. If Gallo and Randolph dont turn it on early in the season we are in trouble.

We have a decent team this year but I dont see us head and shoulders above those teams I listed. You can also factor in a team like Detroit who was devastated by injuries last season.

If New Jersey was tanking, why did they fire their coach and also their President?

The Knicks were tanking last year, I'm not going to take their record seriously.

Marv wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Panos wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I look at our off-season like this

we lost Lee +Harrington and some other bit players

gained

7-1 Mosgov
6-10 Stoudemire
6-11 Randolph
6-10 Turriaf

6-8 Fields
6-6 Azubukie
6-5 Mason

6-0 Felton

I have to think that is an A- atleast

I think you have to factor in the picks we traded to Houston.
Although they were not done in the summer they were done to facilitate the summer action.

well have to wait and see on that--I think with Randolph Fields Mosgov--I feel we almost added 3 lottery type pick talents--of course that a wait and see. I was and am still against that move but you have to look forward in life.

fields and mosgov are lottery type pick talents? i think that's a huge overstatement. i think these guys went on the cheap for good reason and they're great pick-ups for an organization to take a look at and see what can be developed with them. but lottery type talents - unh-unh. This is what over-hypes expectations and sets guys up for overblown disappointment early in the season when a team has to slowly feel its way through the process of building up a core rotation.

i hear you, marv.

i like mosgov and what fields showed, but i can't say i agree with briggs' expectations here.

i think both could be of help, and have potential. they both slipped under the radar, so that's good.

anyway, 40 to 41 wins sounds realistic to me.

36-38 if we struggle, 43-45 if closer to running on all cylinders.