so i want to pose this question to you cap-ologists out there who think this is a realistic scenario... how do you figure we'll have the cap space to sign Melo next summer & then CP3 the year after? please explain when we'll already have Amare's contract value going up every year incrementally along with the issue of having to re-sign Gallo and/or Anthony Randolph & Wilson Chandler?

so wait, some of you guys are perfectly willing to let those young guys go in 2 years time to sign CP3, but you're not willing to trade those guys now to get CP3? please explain how that makes sense.

TMS wrote:

eViL wrote:we're not getting either of those guys. there, feel better?

thanks for the worthless contribution.

i'm sorry. you're right, TMS!!! is that what you were looking for? haha

i asked a legitimate question because there are people around here who think this is possible... so let's hear the explanation cuz i don't see how it can be accomplished.

TMS wrote:bro, if you're not going to contribute anything but stupid sheit, just skip over the thread.

you're arguing with yourself and asking people to prove the unprovable. and i'm the one contributing stupid sheit.

eViL wrote:

TMS wrote:bro, if you're not going to contribute anything but stupid sheit, just skip over the thread.

you're arguing with yourself and asking people to prove the unprovable. and i'm the one contributing stupid sheit.

i'm asking because people are putting forth that scenario... again, if you got nothing but stupidity to contribute, then just skip over the thread... thanks.

eViL wrote:
it can't be accomplished. this is my point.

no sheit it can't be accomplished! so why are people hedging on giving up players now for CP3 that they'd be willing to let go for CP3 2 years from now anyway? that's the damn point!

2011 Salary hold as is
----------------------
Amare Stoudemire - $18 m (approximately)
Eddy Curry - $0 m
Ronny Turiaf - $4.4 m
Ray Felton - $8 m (approximately)
Kelenna Azubuike - $0 m
Danilo Gallinari - $4.2 m (team option)
Timofey Mozgov - $4 m (team option)
Wilson Chandler - $3.1 m (qualifying offer)
Anthony Randolph - $2.9 m
Toney Douglas - $1.1 m (team option)
Bill Walker - $.9 m (team option)
----------------------
Guaranteed, minimum: ~$35m (including cap holds), if we let the team options go, which is plenty to sign Carmelo and then some.

If we trade for CP3 without taking Okafor, then we lose Felton's 8m (there's no way we're keeping both), so that changes things in this manner:
+Chris Paul - $16.4 m
-Ray Felton ~ $8 m
+$8.4 million in salaries (let's assume the others to make the trade work were expirings/team options that we'd lose, for worst case)
-------------------
$35m + $8.4m = $43.4m

Add Carmelo, let's say starting at $15 m and you're here: $43.4m + $15m = $58.4 m, which is just about where the cap will be, give or take a million.

So, basically, if we do this, we wind up with the following team:
Amare Stoudemire - $18 m (approximately)
Chris Paul - $16.4 m
Carmelo Anthony - $15 m
Ronny Turiaf - $4.4 m
Anthony Randolph - 2.9 m
Toney Douglas - min
Bill Walker - min

Lose:
Kelenna Azubuike
Danilo Gallinari (probably in the trade)
Timofey Mozgov
Wilson Chandler

So, I think you're basically correct. The one thing is it looks like we could at least keep Randolph. When you do this analysis, IMHO, unless you also send Turiaf, you don't have cap to keep any more of the kids. So, therefore, you could technically justify sending Felton, Azubuike, Gallinari, Mozgov, and Chandler for Paul, Radmanovic and one or two min contracts, since we can't keep them if we're all in for the Paul + Carmelo plan.

Obviously, if we take Paul and Okafor, we don't get Carmelo unless Carmelo is willing to sign on a team with zero other players and only take $11 million first year. In order to do that, we would have to give back every guaranteed contract except for Stoudemire in the Paul + Okafor trade.

Allanfan20 wrote:I don't see how it can be accomplished. However, if I had to choose, I'd take Melo over CP3.

cuz of injury concerns i take it? cuz i dont see anthony as being a leader at this time, not enough to put this team over the top, unless some other player steps up.

Solace wrote:Hey, TMS. I went through the math a bit, because you bring up some interesting points. Some of these are going to be estimates, because the Hoopshypes salaries link isn't updated for the new players.

2011 Salary hold as is
----------------------
Amare Stoudemire - $18 m (approximately)
Eddy Curry - $0 m
Ronny Turiaf - $4.4 m
Ray Felton - $8 m (approximately)
Kelenna Azubuike - $0 m
Danilo Gallinari - $4.2 m (team option)
Timofey Mozgov - $4 m (team option)
Wilson Chandler - $3.1 m (qualifying offer)
Anthony Randolph - $2.9 m
Toney Douglas - $1.1 m (team option)
Bill Walker - $.9 m (team option)
----------------------
Guaranteed, minimum: ~$35m (including cap holds), if we let the team options go, which is plenty to sign Carmelo and then some.

If we trade for CP3 without taking Okafor, then we lose Felton's 8m (there's no way we're keeping both), so that changes things in this manner:
+Chris Paul - $16.4 m
-Ray Felton ~ $8 m
+$8 million in salaries (let's assume the others to make the trade work were expirings/team options that we'd lose, for worst case)
-------------------
$35m + $8.8m = $43.8m

Add Carmelo, let's say starting at $15 m and you're here: $43.8m + $15m = $58.8 m, which is just about where the cap will be, give or take a million.

So, basically, if we do this, we wind up with the following team:
Amare Stoudemire - $18 m (approximately)
Chris Paul - $16.4 m
Carmelo Anthony - $3.1 m
Ronny Turiaf - $4.4 m
Anthony Randolph - 2.9 m
Toney Douglas - min
Bill Walker - min

Lose:
Kelenna Azubuike
Danilo Gallinari (probably in the trade)
Timofey Mozgov
Wilson Chandler

So, I think you're basically correct. The one thing is it looks like we could at least keep Randolph. When you do this analysis, IMHO, unless you also send Turiaf, you don't have cap to keep any more of the kids. So, therefore, you could technically justify sending Felton, Azubuike, Gallinari, Mozgov, and Chandler for Paul, Radmanovic and one or two min contracts, since we can't keep them if we're all in for the Paul + Carmelo plan.

Obviously, if we take Paul and Okafor, we don't get Carmelo unless Carmelo is willing to sign on a team with zero other players and only take $11 million first year.

thank you for taking the time to go through the numbers Solace... again, let's just imagine that Melo & CP3 want to come here as free agents... who on this current roster will have to go in order to make that a possibility? pretty much everyone w/the exception of Amare & a few low salary players... Gallo & Wilson will both be up for lucrative extensions, which they won't get anyway if there are big names out there for the taking, you guys should know this is how the current FO has operated since they took over... they resisted giving out longterm extensions to David Lee & Nate Robinson because they wanted to be in the free agent shopping spree in 2010... that's exactly what will happen for the next couple of summers when Melo, CP3 & Dwight Howard can potentially become FA's... so if these guys are going to go eventually anyway, why not trade a few of them now to get the player the Knicks are hoping signs here in 2 years time anyway? why waste 2 years of Amare's prime waiting for something that might never come to pass is my point? yes, there's a risk trading for CP3... there are risks in anything you do in life... IMO there was a much bigger risk in trading assets for a player we didn't even know would want to sign here in free agency, but most of you seemed to think it was a brilliant idea... now if the rumors are true, we have a shot at getting the top PG in the game next to maybe Deron Williams for a package of unproven prospects, & yet people want to wait til he becomes a FA so we can sign him & let those same prospects walk as free agents... it's madness.

That gives us the money to sign Melo in 2011. In 2012, Gallo, Randolph have qualifying offers, Felton has a team option, Douglas has a team option, Mozgov has a TO, Turiaf comes off the books.

If Amare is making 20mil, Melo is making 18mil and the salary cap is 55mil, that leaves the knicks with 17mil to sign Paul to the same contract as Melo and Amare.

So yes its possible to sign Melo and CP3 in 11 and 12 just not likely.