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allan houston the all-star?
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knixnprix
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1/17/2004  1:42 PM
is this guy the best shooter in the league or what. this guy is amazing with how good he shoots. i think he should be in the all-star game. does anyone agree? disagree?
FRANK WILLIAMS should be an allstar. The BEST knick this season!
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gunsnewing
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1/17/2004  1:46 PM
nah. There are too many really good shooting guards in the east that can do more than just shoot. Is there any chsnce Marbury can go for the East? I don't think he would be the starter but maybe the coach can pick him.
martin
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1/17/2004  1:48 PM
yeah, the East is loaded at guard. Marbs may get the coaches nod but not Hou. Hou needs to rest anyway.

Here is my take: Hou is an all-star offensive player, no-star defensive player.
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Caseloads
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1/17/2004  2:23 PM
Posted by martin:

yeah, the East is loaded at guard. Marbs may get the coaches nod but not Hou. Hou needs to rest anyway.

Here is my take: Hou is an all-star offensive player, no-star defensive player.
Martin, your take on Hou is perfect, except i'd say Houston is an all-star jumpshoot, not offensive player. He never takes it to the rack anymore.
gunsnewing
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1/17/2004  2:28 PM
right or he never grabs a rebound. He should at least average 3reb and 3assists and he can't even do that.
MaTT4281
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1/17/2004  3:17 PM
If Houston was able to create his own shot, then sure he might have a better chance of being chosen. And as far as "best shooter in the league" goes, I'd have to say Peja is a lil better shooter. Either way, houston still has my vote.
LongIslandKnicksFan
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1/17/2004  5:01 PM
I hope Kieth and Marbury make the all-star team! If not, I would kind of be upset.
MaTT4281
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1/17/2004  6:23 PM
Theres no way Keith is makin the all star team...hes not even close in the voting...marbury might, i think hes like the 5th guard in the voting as of this morning
OldFan
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1/17/2004  6:46 PM
Posted by MaTT4281:

If Houston was able to create his own shot, then sure he might have a better chance of being chosen. And as far as "best shooter in the league" goes, I'd have to say Peja is a lil better shooter. Either way, houston still has my vote.

Alan can get his own shot. No he does not drive. But who do you think has created shots for him over the last few years. Before Marbury the Knicks had no creative point guards and no post passer to set him up. They isolated him and he "Created his own shot". To many people confuse the ability to get to the rack with the ability to get your own shot. Alan has been getting his own shots up against defenses that focused almost entirely on him and Spree. Now that Marbury and Keith are around - he won't need to as much - but he certainly has the ability.
gunsnewing
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1/17/2004  7:21 PM
then why does KT take last second 3's.
Caseloads
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1/17/2004  7:41 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:

then why does KT take last second 3's.
b/c he's crazy eyes! nothing will change that...
Silverfuel
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1/17/2004  11:44 PM
Posted by OldFan:

Alan can get his own shot. No he does not drive. But who do you think has created shots for him over the last few years. Before Marbury the Knicks had no creative point guards and no post passer to set him up.
Good players don't need good point guards. Houston cannot create his own shot. His shortcommings on offense dont end their however. He has to learn to drive to the hoop for people to respect his speed and give him room to shoot.
They isolated him and he "Created his own shot". To many people confuse the ability to get to the rack with the ability to get your own shot. Alan has been getting his own shots up against defenses that focused almost entirely on him and Spree.
I think you are only looking at isolated cases. Houston for the most part can jump shoot after creating a little room. He cannot however create his own shot. The isolation plays they used to run for him were one on one. They are not the same as creating your own shot in a zone or even when driving into traffic. He needs a little room to shoot and for the last two years has been using a side step effectively but thats not going to last for too long.

He is a jump shooter with limited, very limited ability to create his own shot. This really hurts him at the end of games where he cannot even move well without the ball. He cannot get open and get the ball in his own hands and KT has to take an unbalanced shot. Houston is at best a very good jump shooter but peja, ray allen, micheal redd are all better.
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daddynel
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1/17/2004  11:58 PM
fo shizzle dizzle, al can always get his own shot. unfortunately it's always a jumper. if he was'nt such a good jumpshooter he'd be..............................i guess eisley. as for crazy eyes taking that shot, it's popular knowledge that al was always going to take the last shot. all you had to do was deny him the ball. game over!
ko
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1/18/2004  12:16 AM
No Doubt H20 is an All-star! Houston has just as many big shots in this league as any! And lets be honest there is about 2 players selected to the All-star cuz of their D! I would expect for the national audience to sleep on H20! But Die hard Knick fans? Unacceptable! How many knicks have scored more points than this Jump shooter?...
I know he aint goin to the All-star! But I'd put him on there any day of the week!...

Would you like to have A football game without that All-star running back! Without that All star wide reciever! Basketball is a little different. But you get the point!...

"The Priest", Thats my man! For Three!!
OldFan
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1/18/2004  12:32 AM
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by OldFan:

Alan can get his own shot. No he does not drive. But who do you think has created shots for him over the last few years. Before Marbury the Knicks had no creative point guards and no post passer to set him up.
Good players don't need good point guards. Houston cannot create his own shot. His shortcommings on offense dont end their however. He has to learn to drive to the hoop for people to respect his speed and give him room to shoot.

My point exactly - He hasn't needed a good point guard to average 20 pts a game for the last two years. And it's more then not having a good Pg - it's having hardly any offensive options at all.
They isolated him and he "Created his own shot". To many people confuse the ability to get to the rack with the ability to get your own shot. Alan has been getting his own shots up against defenses that focused almost entirely on him and Spree.
I think you are only looking at isolated cases. Houston for the most part can jump shoot after creating a little room. He cannot however create his own shot. The isolation plays they used to run for him were one on one. They are not the same as creating your own shot in a zone or even when driving into traffic. He needs a little room to shoot and for the last two years has been using a side step effectively but thats not going to last for too long.

How Isolated a case could it be - he's average more then 20 pts a game. THere are only about 10-15 guys a year the do that. And he did it on a low scoring team where everyone knew he was the go to guy.

I haven't seen any decrease in Houston effectiveness against the zone - do you have evidence to the contrary.

You might drive into traffic to set up your team mates - a skill Houston does NOT have. But you don't have to be able to drive to get your own shot and you don't need to create a lot of space either. Bernard King - use to get get his turn around shot over out stretched defenders who were all over him - it didn't matter it went in.


He is a jump shooter with limited, very limited ability to create his own shot. This really hurts him at the end of games where he cannot even move well without the ball. He cannot get open and get the ball in his own hands and KT has to take an unbalanced shot. Houston is at best a very good jump shooter but peja, ray allen, micheal redd are all better.

Limited compared to who - he's a better SCORER then 90% of the league. No he's not Kobe or T-Mac etc. But he is not a Trent Tucker Hubert Davis, or Danny Ferry. Those are pure shooters who need someone to set them up. Is he good enough to consistently get off a good shot at the end of the game against a good defender when the entire defense knows he's the first option - NO. But how many guys like that are there?

gunsnewing
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1/18/2004  8:12 AM
Creating his own shot does not mean creating for his team mates. You can drive to the hoop to create your own shot as well. Houston cannot create his own shot. He cannot dribble the ball. He might play well against mediocre defenses but everytime he meets a zone like Golden State, New Orleans, Boston, Washington, Dallas and Philly his stats go down. He shoots low %'s in those games and does not score as much. These zones are different than Don Chaney's stand around and wait for them to drive zone defense. Can you name 3 other things houston can do on offense other than side step shoot and ISO plays which they haven't called all year.

I checked the stats and you can if you want as well. He does not command double teams because he cannot drive the ball and he cannot shoot without creating a little space. They haven't called isolation plays for him because they aren't high % anymore and his side step shoot will not be effective for too long. He is a pure jump shooter who cannot move without the ball as well as Reggie Miller can. He doesn't get to the line often but he is open he can hit a jump shot accurately.

If you still believe that Houston can create his own shot and ranks anywhere in the top 5 then keep it because you cannot convince me. Most people are mediocre defenders and when guarding a jump shooter they always give a little room and Houston had that little room to shoot. He never created his own shot but now he is losing his quickness for the side step. 20pts a game does not make a good SG. Especially on a bad team.

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 01/18/2004 18:23:18]
Silverfuel
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1/18/2004  8:25 AM
He is a 1-dimesional jump shooting SG. There have been mediocre players that have scored 50pts in a game and averaged 20pts/gm for a few seasons on bad teams. Teams dont play hard defense when they play bad teams because they know they are winning anyway.

Just saying Houston never had a good PG who gave him open looks so he always created an open shot is not accurate. And those isolation plays are not being called anymore either. Creating your own shot is not where a SG is judged. A guard also is responsible for getting the ball to the open man and Houston never does that either. He is 1-dimensional.

[Edited by - Silverfuel on 01/18/2004 08:25:40]
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WOODMANnYk
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1/18/2004  8:47 AM
If you listened to the Knicks game against the Bulls last night, Doug Collins said when he coached the Pistons, Houston had poor footwork and nowhere near a decent post-up player.

As of now, he definitely knows how to post up a player which helps him creat for himself. Houston also has become a lethal one on one isolation player. IF you watched the game vs milwaukee Bucks or the Lakers last yr, he was unstoppable. (50 pt games).
Houston is a top 10 shooting guard in the league. As for pure shooting, Ray Allen is probably a bit better. HOUston and Marbury formed the best backcourt in the eastern conference.
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gunsnewing
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1/18/2004  10:12 AM
Me and Silverfuel researched how Allan does against good defenses like Indiana, Houston, Philly, New Orleans etc and most of the time Houston didn't get his usual 20+ a game and shot a bad FG%. I was arguing with Silverfuel just like you guys are but after seeing that I believed what he was saying. Do I think we are in deep **** because f H20, NO. Especially now with Marbury getting him open looks. The problem was, he was our best player for so long and is being paid 100mil even with all those flaws.
gunsnewing
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1/18/2004  10:17 AM
most of his 30-40 point games come against teams like Milwalkee.
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