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Jordan and Barkley say 2 Time MVP shouldn't have left.
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playa2
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7/19/2010  8:47 AM
LAS VEGAS -- The latest Big Three backlash came Sunday from none other than Michael Jordan, who contributed his weighty opinion to the debate about whether LeBron James should've teamed up with two superstars instead of trying to beat them.


"There's no way, with hindsight, I would've ever called up Larry, called up Magic and said, 'Hey, look, let's get together and play on one team,'" Jordan said after finishing tied for 22nd in the American Century Championship golf tournament in Stateline, Nev. "But that's ... things are different. I can't say that's a bad thing. It's an opportunity these kids have today. In all honesty, I was trying to beat those guys."

Those last few words, said in an interview with NBC Sports, will resonate and hang over James all season, the way Jordan's legacy has hovered over the first seven years of his career. Clearly, I am not alone in believing that James broke ranks in a legacy-damaging way by teaming up with Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh instead of trying to go through them in the eternal struggle for championships that the great players have always faced.

"Mike and I are in 100 percent agreement on this," Charles Barkley told the Arizona Republic this week. "If you're the two-time defending NBA MVP, you don't leave anywhere. They come to you. That's ridiculous. I like LeBron. He's a great player. But I don't think in the history of sports you can find a two-time defending MVP leaving to go play with other people."

Disappointment from their elders is only part of the backlash James and Wade -- more so than Bosh -- will face as they embark on their magical mystery tour. The other is that the Heat will be a bull's-eye for criticism, and easy for the competition to root against. This is something Wade addressed in an article published Sunday by AOL Fanhouse -- one in which he made an unfortunate comparison between the Heat losing a couple of games in a row and the collapse of the World Trade Center.

"We enjoy the bull's-eye," Wade said. "Plus, there's going to be times when we lose 2-3 games in a row, and it seems like the world has crashed down. You all are going to make it seem like the World Trade is coming down again, but it's not going to be nothing but a couple basketball games."

I have to assume that Wade didn't intend to equate losing basketball games to a murderous act of war against innocent civilians, but these are the kind of tone-deaf quotes you get sometimes in sports. And you get them in any era. It was Jordan, remember, who came across as a shameless, out-of-touch shoe salesman when he explained not endorsing a black Democrat for U.S. Senate in his home state of North Carolina by saying, "Republicans buy sneakers, too."

The point Wade was trying to make, I think -- and one he made poorly -- is that anything less than a championship for the Heat will be considered a failure. Along those lines, several GMs and personnel people I spoke with during Las Vegas Summer League aren't convinced that the Larry O'Brien Trophy should be shipped to South Beach just yet.

"The Lakers are still the better team," one executive said. "The question is, how are those guys [in Miami] going to fit together?"

Wade himself has acknowledged that the Lakers are still the team to beat, which is the only respectful way to go about it. The two-time defending champions are the two-time defending champions until somebody changes that. Personnel people digesting the impact of the Heat's Big Three, and the supporting cast assembled around them so far, shared two overriding opinions: 1) As difficult as it was for Tom Thibodeau to create a defensive scheme to combat LeBron or Wade while serving as the Celtics' defensive architect in Boston, it's going to be infinitely more difficult to stop both of them; and 2) As impressive as some of Miami's complementary signings have been, the pressure on the supporting cast to deliver -- which all championship supporting casts must do -- will be immense.

What if the Heat need Joel Anthony to knock down a couple of free throws in the final seconds of a road playoff game? What if they need Mike Miller to hit a contested 3-pointer from the corner in Game 7 of the Eastern Conference finals against Boston or Orlando?

"Mike Miller has never played in a game like that," one of the personnel execs said.

But in the end, the pressure will fall on the shoulders of Wade and James. How evenly they share the responsibility and the glory remains to be seen.

As for Jordan, he couldn't have summed up my feelings any better when it comes to the Miami Big Three -- the Dream Team or the Scheme Team, depending on your perspective. One executive scouting Summer League games told me he hadn't heard Jordan utter those words about Bird and Magic, but he didn't need to.

"When I brought the subject up, he was just typing on his Blackberry," the executive said. "And he was just shaking his head; you know, like when you're disappointed? He didn't say anything. He was just pecking away on his Blackberry."

He didn't say anything because he didn't have to.

"Exactly," the executive said.

For more from Ken Berger, check him out on Twitter: @KBerg_CBS

JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
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Markji
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7/19/2010  9:06 AM
playa2 wrote:"There's no way, with hindsight, I would've ever called up Larry, called up Magic and said, 'Hey, look, let's get together and play on one team,'" Jordan said ..... In all honesty, I was trying to beat those guys."

Jordan sums up the LeBrona-wimp perfectly. Great players go out and beat the competition; not cave-in and join them.
The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
playa2
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7/19/2010  9:23 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/19/2010  9:25 AM
Markji wrote:
playa2 wrote:"There's no way, with hindsight, I would've ever called up Larry, called up Magic and said, 'Hey, look, let's get together and play on one team,'" Jordan said ..... In all honesty, I was trying to beat those guys."

Jordan sums up the LeBrona-wimp perfectly. Great players go out and beat the competition; not cave-in and join them.

Markji , maybe I stand alone on this but when Jordan was playing along with bird and Magic, the owners of those teams got the players needed to help their star win it all. Can you honestly say the Cleveland did that ?

IMHO Jordan, Magic and Bird would all have opted out of their contract after 7 yrs if their respective owners and GM's didn't give them what they needed to win it all. Lebron got pimped by the owner in Cleveland this is why he added on an old shaq and a non real playoff battle tested Antwan Jamison.

Those 3 guys were all about winning not getting close.

JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
Bonn1997
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7/19/2010  9:47 AM
playa2 wrote:
Markji wrote:
playa2 wrote:"There's no way, with hindsight, I would've ever called up Larry, called up Magic and said, 'Hey, look, let's get together and play on one team,'" Jordan said ..... In all honesty, I was trying to beat those guys."

Jordan sums up the LeBrona-wimp perfectly. Great players go out and beat the competition; not cave-in and join them.

Markji , maybe I stand alone on this but when Jordan was playing along with bird and Magic, the owners of those teams got the players needed to help their star win it all. Can you honestly say the Cleveland did that ?


I agree but that doesn't mean he had to team up with Wade and Bosh. He could have gone to a different, well-run organization and tried to beat Wade and Bosh. I think he's motivated to win but I don't think he's motivated to *beat other top players and show that he's the best player* in the game.
loweyecue
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7/19/2010  9:49 AM
CAN'T BEAT 'EM, JOIN 'EM --- That, is the essence of Lebronbury.
TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
fishmike
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7/19/2010  10:06 AM
they have a chance to do some amazing things, including being the best basketball team ever. They are certainly one of the most talented. Lebron's legacy as an individual player takes a hit but clearly thats not what makes him tick.

Lebron did was he wanted to do. Good for him.

For the Knicks its all about getting better. I'm happy w/ our offseason. We have a lot of potential to improve from within as well, so I can be a little patient with this group. Lets face it though.. best case is that Felton blows up in the SSOL, Amare plays like he has been and we sign Melo in the offseason.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Silverfuel
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7/19/2010  10:13 AM
fishmike wrote:they have a chance to do some amazing things, including being the best basketball team ever. They are certainly one of the most talented. Lebron's legacy as an individual player takes a hit but clearly thats not what makes him tick.

Exactly! Miami is going to win a ton of games and more than one championship. I think Lebron saw what happened to KG in Minnesota and decided he cannot wait till his early 30s and let the media label him a loser. And he definitely would not want to come to NYC if he does not want the media to label him.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Nalod
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7/19/2010  10:18 AM
Lebron and Gilbert should have set upon a plan to look long term and rebuild instead of trying to plug up the team on the run like the knicks did with Ewing.

Few comparisons can be made when a player leaves but a player holding the team hostage and threating to leave is Ewing in his prime. He demanded better players, which he got but at a price and in 1996 had Don nelson fired 17 games into the season because Nellie was trying to phase him out and run more. Now we all Know Donnie gone coo coo for coco puffs but pre Mavs in an era of slow ball that system was very contrasting to the east and might have worked. Knicks buckled under ewings pending free agency threat and the rest is history.

Knicks didn't win, Ewing resigned and then starting falling apart, Nellie got canned and JVG installed the tough guy ball that riley had succeeded with and the knicks rebuild along lines of rule changes and an move to a faster game.

Both Lebron and Gilbert handled it bad, but in this day and age Lebron was under huge pressure to win and when offered the opportinity he bolted.

IN a way I think what the elders are saying it dilutes the championship value by colluding with other star players.

Barkley never won it and Jordan who says very little about anything does not want his image diluted either.

I respect Mike but we talking Jordan here who I believe would have done similar.

Bonn1997
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7/19/2010  10:35 AM
Nalod wrote:Lebron and Gilbert should have set upon a plan to look long term and rebuild instead of trying to plug up the team on the run like the knicks did with Ewing.

That is true. I get the impression that Gilbert was always working from the mindset that "We've gotta turn it around *this* year or else Lebron will leave"
playa2
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7/19/2010  10:43 AM
Would the owner have cared if his team kept racking in the money but Lebrons legacy went down the tolilet by staying there. NO
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
MS
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7/19/2010  10:46 AM
Lebron is just not an intelligent human being. Sometimes I think we give these guys a lot more credit than they deserve. Everyone thought he was so mature and business savvy when in realty he is just a basketball player with a huge ego. That's the only fault in him.

I agree, with Jordan. However, most people don't fault Lebron. Since they drafted Lebron they have two guys that are on the roster Gibson and Hickson that they drafted. His veteran influence was Ira Newble. There free agent signing was Larry Hughes. They let Boozer get away and traded for guys like Darius Miles.

Jordan had Pippen, Rodman, Grant, Tony K, Ron Harper great battled tested talent and all stars. Larry had 3 HOF on his squad. Magic one of the greatest centers of all time, a HOF wing and amazing role players.

The Cavs are garbage and the fact that they couldn't get him decent teamates for 7 years is why they lost him. Ego or not. There was one choice to truly be the man and that was the Knicks. Miami is a cop out and he destroyed his legacy. Let's move on.

jazz74
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7/19/2010  10:48 AM
well, this is a very different generation where instant gratification is achieved by any means necessary. lebron felt he worked long enough for a title the "old-fashioned" way and decided to team with a superstar champion to get his title. is this bad for the nba? i dont know. however, it is a huge measurement stick that we have to build a team against for the next few years.
playa2
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7/19/2010  10:50 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
playa2 wrote:
Markji wrote:
playa2 wrote:"There's no way, with hindsight, I would've ever called up Larry, called up Magic and said, 'Hey, look, let's get together and play on one team,'" Jordan said ..... In all honesty, I was trying to beat those guys."

Jordan sums up the LeBrona-wimp perfectly. Great players go out and beat the competition; not cave-in and join them.

Markji , maybe I stand alone on this but when Jordan was playing along with bird and Magic, the owners of those teams got the players needed to help their star win it all. Can you honestly say the Cleveland did that ?


I agree but that doesn't mean he had to team up with Wade and Bosh. He could have gone to a different, well-run organization and tried to beat Wade and Bosh. I think he's motivated to win but I don't think he's motivated to *beat other top players and show that he's the best player* in the game.

You can't beat other top players unless your owner wants to. You guys act like Lebron owned the Cavaliers. As a player you can only win a championship when your OWNER wants to win as bad as you do.

I can't believe some of these lame comments.

JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
Markji
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7/19/2010  11:10 AM
playa2 wrote:
Markji wrote:
playa2 wrote:"There's no way, with hindsight, I would've ever called up Larry, called up Magic and said, 'Hey, look, let's get together and play on one team,'" Jordan said ..... In all honesty, I was trying to beat those guys."

Jordan sums up the LeBrona-wimp perfectly. Great players go out and beat the competition; not cave-in and join them.

Markji , maybe I stand alone on this but when Jordan was playing along with bird and Magic, the owners of those teams got the players needed to help their star win it all. Can you honestly say the Cleveland did that ?

IMHO Jordan, Magic and Bird would all have opted out of their contract after 7 yrs if their respective owners and GM's didn't give them what they needed to win it all. Lebron got pimped by the owner in Cleveland this is why he added on an old shaq and a non real playoff battle tested Antwan Jamison.

Those 3 guys were all about winning not getting close.

LeBron leaving Cleveland was fine, IMO. Gilbert, the owner, along with Ferry the GM, tried to get a championship team together, but couldn't get it done. Cleveland had the highest, or 2nd highest payroll last year. The owner didn't quit on LeBron or the team.

For me, it is all about LeBron taking the easy way out. Jordan still battled other great teams, like our Knicks, in order to win his 6 championship teams. So did Bird and Magic. That is what made Jordan GREAT; Bird GREAT; Magic GREAT.

LeBron is the best player in the NBA right now. But LeBron isn't GREAT!

The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
Bonn1997
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7/19/2010  11:20 AM
playa2 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
playa2 wrote:
Markji wrote:
playa2 wrote:"There's no way, with hindsight, I would've ever called up Larry, called up Magic and said, 'Hey, look, let's get together and play on one team,'" Jordan said ..... In all honesty, I was trying to beat those guys."

Jordan sums up the LeBrona-wimp perfectly. Great players go out and beat the competition; not cave-in and join them.

Markji , maybe I stand alone on this but when Jordan was playing along with bird and Magic, the owners of those teams got the players needed to help their star win it all. Can you honestly say the Cleveland did that ?


I agree but that doesn't mean he had to team up with Wade and Bosh. He could have gone to a different, well-run organization and tried to beat Wade and Bosh. I think he's motivated to win but I don't think he's motivated to *beat other top players and show that he's the best player* in the game.

You can't beat other top players unless your owner wants to. You guys act like Lebron owned the Cavaliers. As a player you can only win a championship when your OWNER wants to win as bad as you do.

I can't believe some of these lame comments.

You make it sound like his only two options were play for the Cavs or be Wade's sidekick in Miami. You can't really think that none of the other 28 teams wanted him!

misterearl
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7/19/2010  11:36 AM
MS - what does Lebrons decision have to do with his intelligence?

Was George Steinbrenner intelligent?

once a knick always a knick
arkrud
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7/19/2010  11:50 AM
misterearl wrote:MS - what does Lebrons decision have to do with his intelligence?

Was George Steinbrenner intelligent?

His decision has everything to do with personal interest of people who are playing him like puppet (see the Lebron/Cobe cartoon).
LeBron is bbal robot in the hands of provincially minded greedy gangs. And they will destroy him and themselves eventually.
And road downhill is started already.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Sangfroid
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7/19/2010  11:57 AM
playa2 wrote:
Markji wrote:
playa2 wrote:"There's no way, with hindsight, I would've ever called up Larry, called up Magic and said, 'Hey, look, let's get together and play on one team,'" Jordan said ..... In all honesty, I was trying to beat those guys."

Jordan sums up the LeBrona-wimp perfectly. Great players go out and beat the competition; not cave-in and join them.

Markji , maybe I stand alone on this but when Jordan was playing along with bird and Magic, the owners of those teams got the players needed to help their star win it all. Can you honestly say the Cleveland did that ?

IMHO Jordan, Magic and Bird would all have opted out of their contract after 7 yrs if their respective owners and GM's didn't give them what they needed to win it all. Lebron got pimped by the owner in Cleveland this is why he added on an old shaq and a non real playoff battle tested Antwan Jamison.

Those 3 guys were all about winning not getting close.

Lebron had the opportunity to decide which players he would play besides, not named bosh or wade. He refused to commit to the Cavaliers, even for his final year. By doing so, he scared off coachs and possible team mates that might have joined him. I crown these jokers, "The Scheme Team", because that's all this collusive act was.

"We are playing a game. We are playing at not playing a game..."
Sangfroid
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7/19/2010  12:05 PM
Nalod wrote:Lebron and Gilbert should have set upon a plan to look long term and rebuild instead of trying to plug up the team on the run like the knicks did with Ewing.

Few comparisons can be made when a player leaves but a player holding the team hostage and threating to leave is Ewing in his prime. He demanded better players, which he got but at a price and in 1996 had Don nelson fired 17 games into the season because Nellie was trying to phase him out and run more. Now we all Know Donnie gone coo coo for coco puffs but pre Mavs in an era of slow ball that system was very contrasting to the east and might have worked. Knicks buckled under ewings pending free agency threat and the rest is history.

Knicks didn't win, Ewing resigned and then starting falling apart, Nellie got canned and JVG installed the tough guy ball that riley had succeeded with and the knicks rebuild along lines of rule changes and an move to a faster game.

Both Lebron and Gilbert handled it bad, but in this day and age Lebron was under huge pressure to win and when offered the opportinity he bolted.

IN a way I think what the elders are saying it dilutes the championship value by colluding with other star players.

Barkley never won it and Jordan who says very little about anything does not want his image diluted either.

I respect Mike but we talking Jordan here who I believe would have done similar.

Sorry, can't agree. As much as I hated Jordan, I can say he got his championships the "old fashion way", HE EARNED THEM!! He played with the Bulls before he won anything, came back to them after his "retirement" and when he did change teams, he didn't align himself with a team of all-stars to prepetuate his goal of more rings.

"We are playing a game. We are playing at not playing a game..."
Paladin55
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7/19/2010  12:10 PM
MS wrote:Lebron is just not an intelligent human being. Sometimes I think we give these guys a lot more credit than they deserve. Everyone thought he was so mature and business savvy when in realty he is just a basketball player with a huge ego. That's the only fault in him.

I agree, with Jordan. However, most people don't fault Lebron. Since they drafted Lebron they have two guys that are on the roster Gibson and Hickson that they drafted. His veteran influence was Ira Newble. There free agent signing was Larry Hughes. They let Boozer get away and traded for guys like Darius Miles.

Jordan had Pippen, Rodman, Grant, Tony K, Ron Harper great battled tested talent and all stars. Larry had 3 HOF on his squad. Magic one of the greatest centers of all time, a HOF wing and amazing role players.

The Cavs are garbage and the fact that they couldn't get him decent teamates for 7 years is why they lost him. Ego or not. There was one choice to truly be the man and that was the Knicks. Miami is a cop out and he destroyed his legacy. Let's move on.


There had to have been some in his inner circle who told him that his image and legacy as a player would be forever damaged. Of course some of these folks might have been people who enjoyed being the kings of Cleveland and the aristocracy of Akron and were only concerned about being marginalized in Miami or gnats in New York, but there had to have been some who told him he was making a big mistake, even if their reasons for doing so were selfish.

I think that coming to the Nets would have shown some courage, and you can even respect him if he had gone to Chicago where he would have to battle the ghost of Jordan, but the Knicks were not only a franchise he could have revived, but success on a New York stage would have made him a larger than life savior in a city that deifies its sports heroes.

Glory, of the true kind, will always escape LeBron. The great players from the past see what he did and know that he will never belong with them. Leaving your franchise well past your prime is one thing, but leaving the way he did from his home town, with unfinished business and a very strange performance in his Cavs playoff swansong, is entirely different.


Regarding the Cav's draft: I assume that they traded most of their picks because since James came over, it looks like they only had a few.

Luke Jackson over Al Jefferson (Arguably their biggest draft blunder, and last lottery under James)
Shannon Brown over Jordan Farmar (nothing to pick from) Picked Gibson in 2nd
Hickson over Courtney Lee, Ibaka, Batum, George Hill (Jury is still out on Hickson, but Hill is a nice player)
Christian Eyenga over Blair, Jerebko, Thornton, Budinger (can't remember how they explained this one) Danny Green in the 2nd

The only franchise breaker type draft mistake is Jackson over Jefferson, IMO. The Eyenga draft makes little sense.

Don't know the players they traded for their #1s for.

Boozer's departure after his second year on the teams seems to have been a big setback too- seem to recall that he did not come out looking good after that departure. If they had drafted Al Jefferson, you could have had a front line of Jefferson, Boozer, and James, all young and growing together.

I like Barkley's comment "If you're the two-time defending NBA MVP, you don't leave anywhere. They come to you." He should have added that you don't leave your team to play for another superstar's team while you are still in your prime if you expect to be considered the best player in the league.

No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
Jordan and Barkley say 2 Time MVP shouldn't have left.

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