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A history lesson on winning...
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Moonangie
Posts: 24766
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7/8/2010  10:28 AM
from today's New York Times:
With Chris Bosh and Dwyane Wade joining forces in Miami, the Heat has one of the most impressive one-two punches in the N.B.A., regardless of whether LeBron James decides to join them.

Wade and Bosh were their teams’ undisputed go-to guys last season, but as teammates neither will have to carry so much of the offensive burden, which in turn will make each star more dangerous. That’s the theory at least.

The trouble is, history tells us that combinations like this –- featuring two players who had each been go-to guys the year before -– rarely result in a championship.

Last season, Wade took 33 percent of Miami’s shots when he was on the floor, the second-highest rate of any N.B.A. player (Carmelo Anthony took 34 percent of Denver’s shots when in the game). Bosh was slightly more egalitarian, taking 27 percent of the Raptors’ shots, but he still ranked 14th in the league among players with 2,000 minutes.

If Wade and Bosh maintained their share of the offense from last season, they would combine for 60 percent of the Heat’s shots, a huge number.

How huge? Since 1953, only seven new pairs of teammates had a higher combined rate the year before they got together than the Wade-Bosh duo will have next season. Of those seven, five made the playoffs, but only one made the conference finals, and none won a title.

Furthermore, if you look at the top 30 new player pairs since 1953, 22 made the playoffs but only three won an N.B.A. championship: Ray Allen and Kevin Garnett of the 2008 Celtics, Kobe Bryant and Ron Artest of the 2010 Lakers, and Julius Erving and Moses Malone of the 1983 76ers. The key to their success, in each case, was having a player willing to sacrifice his once-dominant role, as Allen, Artest and Malone all did.

This means that while having a Big Two won’t be a bad thing for the Heat (18 of the top 30 teams improved their regular-season record with their new players), it’s hardly a guarantee of playoff success. Then again, Miami does have a good track record in this type of situation: The third most recent team to win a title with a new Big Two? The 2006 Heat, which paired Wade with the new acquisition Antoine Walker.

For what it's worth, I'd say having three divas will prove even less a recipe for winning chips than two.

Any comments?

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realhiphop
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7/8/2010  10:29 AM
The 3 of them are friends. It COULD work.
fishmike
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7/8/2010  10:43 AM
The Wade/Lebron combo doesnt make sense to me. If your going to have a big 3 like that you really need to have a PG/wing/post type combo. I dont really see the Allen/Pierce/KG combo because while Ray Allen certainly had his big games he was really an all star who has become a role player. He's the shooter and his job is to create space and force defenses from collapsing. If the D does collapse than Ray will have those 10-20 shooting nights where he scores 25 points sure. He's not a ball handler and he doesnt get to the FT line.

For the Miami scenarion to work either James or Wade will have to take a lesser role and handle the ball much less. Does it make sense to have Wade or Lebron sitting on wing waiting for someone to pass to them? Who is taking a lesser role? Wade? He's been a finals MVP. Lebron? He's a 2 time MVP.

Then you have to factor in that after Lebron/Wade/Bosh you will have Chalmers and 7 guys who are playing for the NBA minimum. Thats 2nd rounders, undrafted FAs, NBDL players, etc.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
nixluva
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USA
7/8/2010  10:43 AM
They'll win a ton of games, but they still wouldn't be a lock to win a title. There's more to it than just throwing a lot of great talent together. Some one is gonna have to take a backseat. How they balance the team dominance will be very important. 3 Alpha males is hard to do. It would be interesting to watch and see how it works in reality.
jimimou
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USA
7/8/2010  10:55 AM
lemme ask you guys this question - amd amswer honestly - if it was the knicks who just landed wade and bosh and the speculation was that lebron was coming too - would you change your mind on your responses to the above?
arkrud
Posts: 32217
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USA
7/8/2010  11:02 AM
fishmike wrote:The Wade/Lebron combo doesnt make sense to me. If your going to have a big 3 like that you really need to have a PG/wing/post type combo. I dont really see the Allen/Pierce/KG combo because while Ray Allen certainly had his big games he was really an all star who has become a role player. He's the shooter and his job is to create space and force defenses from collapsing. If the D does collapse than Ray will have those 10-20 shooting nights where he scores 25 points sure. He's not a ball handler and he doesnt get to the FT line.

For the Miami scenarion to work either James or Wade will have to take a lesser role and handle the ball much less. Does it make sense to have Wade or Lebron sitting on wing waiting for someone to pass to them? Who is taking a lesser role? Wade? He's been a finals MVP. Lebron? He's a 2 time MVP.

Then you have to factor in that after Lebron/Wade/Bosh you will have Chalmers and 7 guys who are playing for the NBA minimum. Thats 2nd rounders, undrafted FAs, NBDL players, etc.

Teams with great and even avarage defense will play a zone on them, double and let them shot from outside (which thay all are avarage at) and let other Miamy scrubs try to impersonate NBA players. It will be easy team to play.
Some nights they will crush any opponet, and some they will collapse.
Big 3 in Boston get alot of support and did a lot of sacrefices in their game, all 3 were out of their prime and heappy to have a time off in game and between.
Not the case for Wade/Bron/Bosh.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
jazz74
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7/8/2010  11:07 AM
it would work with these three. lebron is so unselfish and wade knows how to win. bosh is proving to be content being a stooge rather than a great player. the big difference is what would their bench look like. they can sign some with the veteran minimum but not a good bench like the magic and celtics have. that is their weakness.
Moonangie
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7/8/2010  11:27 AM
jimimou wrote:lemme ask you guys this question - amd amswer honestly - if it was the knicks who just landed wade and bosh and the speculation was that lebron was coming too - would you change your mind on your responses to the above?

Not at all. I would be totally against such a move. I would rather thake the two stars and surround them with role players who can help win. It's too risky (injury, bad chemistry) to put all eggs in the three stars and have a bunch of scrubs running around clueless. I am shocked that Riley is pushing for this.

A history lesson on winning...

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