The first go-round with Amar’e Stoudemire and Mike D’Antoni in Phoenix featured vehement private and public complaints on both sides of their precarious partnership. And there’s little reason to expect the outcome of their reunion in New York will be any different.

For his part, D’Antoni did little to conceal his profound displeasure with Stoudemire’s lack of interest in playing defense as well as with his low basketball IQ. But here it is two years later, and Stoudemire continues to believe blocking shots is all the defense he needs to play. Moreover, playing screen/roll with Steve Nash and making angle cuts in Nash’s wake have done nothing to elevate Stoudemire’s understanding of the game. Not even by osmosis.

On the other hand, Stoudemire publicly complained his ex-coach lacked a sufficient focus on defense. This belief was, of course, right on. But the only semi-rational explanation for Stoudemire’s saying this was he actually believed his own defensive shortcomings were strictly D’Antoni’s fault.

Ah, but the two former antagonists broke bread with each other in New York over the weekend and emerged to proclaim that all of their former differences have been successfully resolved.

Does this mean Stoudemire actually is impressed with the Knicks’ sad-sack defense during D’Antoni’s tenure? Or has D’Antoni become convinced Stoudemire will suddenly prove to be a basketball Einstein as soon as he dons a Knicks uniform?

Could anything be more ludicrous?

However, it’s reasonably certain New York will, sooner rather than later, sign some other free-agent superstar. But because another of Stoudemire’s constant laments throughout his career has been he never gets enough shots and not enough sets are run through him, why would the likes of LeBron James or Dwyane Wade have any desire to play with him?

Indeed, just as John Stockton was the main reason Karl Malone’s numbers were so impressive, Stoudemire’s stats were mostly dependent on being fed cookies by Nash. Even if LBJ and/or D-Wade joins Stoudemire in the Big Apple, neither of these two players, as great as they are, can come close to equaling Nash as a facilitator.

In order to truly develop his game, Stoudemire needs structure. D’Antoni’s so-called system, which he has characterized as “organized chaos,” will do nothing to broaden Stoudemire’s on-court horizons.

Yes, he’ll score lots of points, block an occasional shot, make an occasional pass and snatch an occasional rebound, but no matter whom else the Knicks lure to New York, Stoudemire will remain an incomplete player.

In addition, Stoudemire’s uninsurable knees and past eye injuries make giving him a max contract a huge gamble — one that the desperate Knicks can’t afford to lose.

Even more dangerous is the multitude of high-style goodies available in New York, temptations that an immature young celebrity like Stoudemire will find difficult to resist. Indeed, his barely post-adolescent mind-set is exemplified by the growing roll call of agents he has haphazardly hired and fired.

So forget about Stoudemire and D’Antoni making amends, forget about the happy faces and bright-eyed platitudes that will emerge in the news conference that announces the signing. And forget about the promises of championships that inevitably will be won when or if the Knicks sweep the board of top-notch free agents.

These are the essential reasons Stoudemire has decided to re-up with D’Antoni:

• Phoenix was dullsville, Chicago is merely the second city and Miami is a comparatively low-budget franchise.

• New York, however, is where the action is.

• And, most importantly, New York is where the money is.

In short, despite whatever further roster moves are made, New York and Stoudemire have joined forces for all the wrong reasons.

I couldn't paint this in a more negative light than what this FOX Sports writer just did. So Amare apparently whines about not getting enough touches, his production will significantly diminish without Nash, and his eyes will go gaga at the bright city lights and strip clubs at his doorstep each night.

Yet none of us (specifically, Rosen) have never seen how Amare will perform with a beast like Lebron, and to say his indulgences off-court will affect his on-court performance is pure speculation. Not to mention that Amare is no longer a young kid in his early 20's. There could be a hundred reasons you'd fire an agent that don't equate to being "barely post-adolescent". More media flame against the Knicks.

I agree that Defense will, and always will, win championships, but that's not to say that this move was for all the wrong reasons. No, it was for all the right reasons. It shows Amare's steadfast and determined new mindset (in contrast to the wishy-washy attitude of Bosh). It make the Knicks instantly relevant again and much more of a logical destination for Lebron, who may have been eyeing and loving NYC this whole time but would have looked like a fool for jumping onboard a ship without an All-Star. Now it makes sense. Now the Knicks will be unstoppable on offense and D'Antoni will hopefully have learned from prior playoff runs that with a more stellar defense, his style of play may actually bring multiple rings. The signing also satisfyingly shuts up all those who predicted the Knicks would be shut out this offseason.

Can't wait to see the Knicks prove them wrong in 2010-2011!!!

martin wrote:different point of view:

Amar'e Stoudemire: Icon of the New York reclamation

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/07/amare-stoudemire-icon-of-the-new-york-reclamation.php

By Matt Moore

Lost in the debates on if the Knicks should have traded for Tracy McGrady (and his cap space) at the cost of their draft picks in 2011 (swapped) and 2012 to the Rockets, and whether the Knicks will manage to acquire one of the true elites of the free agent class (two names, LeBron James, Dwyane Wade) is just how severe a hole the Knicks were in.

The damage reaped upon New York's basketball flagship by the former GM who shall remain nameless was so severe, the Knicks are just now getting out from under the massive anvil he dropped on them. Every season for the past six years, Knicks fans have convinced themselves the team would be competitive. Not championship-level elite, just competitive. But somehow, Eddy Curry and Zach Randolph with QRich never quite worked out. Then the new regime came in, and Knicks fans hoped they'd be competitive, but the talent just wasn't there.

To rebuild, to truly rebuild, if you're not blessed with a former player handing you a former MVP at a discount price, you have to torch the whole thing and start over. You can't leave anything substantial behind. Then you have to find one central player to build around. Danilo Galinari? A nice touch, a good solid window pane feature, but it's not something you construct as a pillar to build the structure on.

No more Al Harrington as the premier offensive threat. No more David Lee as the primary perimeter pick and roll man. The Knicks have an elite player at a key position and they can begin to formulate a competitive team around him. Get LeBron, don't get LeBron, get Wade, don't get Wade, things have changed in New York.

Donnie Walsh has said several times that their plan goes beyond this season. That they have to be committed to building long-term, even if they whif on the top free agents this summer. Rome was not built in a day, and it is dwarfed by New York. To build a team fitting of the greatest city on Earth, to compete in this era's NBA, may take patience and ingenuity, something that Walsh has already demonstrated.

Let's be clear, the Knicks took a risk here. They convinced Amar'e to be the first of the free agent dominoes to fall, and convinced him that they have a plan to win a championship and that he is a central component. They could have waited for James and Wade to make their decisions, but that may have resulted in them being left out in the cold. If the Big 2 do not make their way to the Five Boroughs, New York won't be left holding an empty net. Someone in this free agency summer is going to lose, and lose big. The Knicks avoided that fate and have a player to build around.

There are a billion things to be done now. Convince one of the other key free agents to commit. Barring that, trade David Lee for the best sign-and-trade package they can acquire. Sign a point guard that can run the pick and roll, immediately, in a market short on such point guards (Raymond Felton may be about to have Christmas in July). Sign or acquire shooters to put on the perimeter. Find someone, anyone to play center who has a pulse. (No, Eddy Curry does not count.)

From there, it's tweaking, and adjusting, to build a new powerhouse, a team that finally, truly has something to say in the NBA.

And as much as Knicks fans, and their organization, want to contend for championships, just having that say is a place to start. It's an improvement, a move in the right direction after nearly 10 years of moves in the opposite direction. Huge contracts to players who obviously weren't worth them. Say what you want about Stoudemire, he's at least worthy of being in the conversation for the contract he's been offered. No more draft picks of guys who are only auxiliary help on a sinking boat.

And most importantly, no more disgraces in the headlines that let the fans know that the people in charge of the team they love most is ran by the wrong people. This signals the right thing. The Knicks aren't just an attractive free agent destination because of the city. They're a pull because of the city, and the fans, and the organization, and the players.

Moreso than any other fanbase, the Knicks fans I've talked to have been the most pessimistic towards the team signing LeBron James or Dwyane Wade. They're smart basketball fans that realize just how terrible they've been and how little they've had to offer in the way of championship contention. But this agreement to sign may just signal to them that that time period is over. That they can feel confident in their team's ability to make the right moves, to attract the top guys, to be a team that is at the top, or if nothing else, just not at the bottom of the league.

Progress is a process, and it begins with a singular defining movement, the culmination of planning, though, and consideration. Stoudemire's arrival in New York, declaring the Knicks as "back" may be presumptuous and overly bold, but that's what's needed. New York basketball no longer needs to humble itself to drive the poison out. It can square its shoulders and declare that the Knicks are once again in the arena, ready to compete. And that's at least something for such a beaten fanbase.

It's been a long, hard road just to get to a point where they can start the upward climb. But after a decade of misery and angst, the Knicks have made their first big move that makes sense. For all Stoudemire's faults, he's also been a near-MVP candidate at times, has years in front of him, and knows D'Antoni's system as well as anyone.

The future isn't now. But the light on the horizon is no longer just the jubilation of other teams making moves the Knicks have missed.

New York returns to relevance, starting tonight.

alot of those same sentiments were echoed after we made the Stephon Marbury trade... we finally had our superstar to build around, NYC born & bred... the Knicks were finally relevant again & so forth & so on... i'm not equating Amare to Marbury player wise, but you can't count this as a grand slam until you see what other fruit it bears... it was an important first step, & under the circumstances, a very necessary first step, but getting halfway to the goal doesn't cut it.

BRIGGS wrote:As of right now--as is the Knicks are no better than last year---Lee and Stoudemire is a wash. Its like we traded Lee for Stoudemire. Its every move after this that will show us if we actually get better or not--if anyone really think Stoudemire is appreciably better than Lee--wrong.

Lee is a nice player but do you hear teams beating down Lee's door to sign him ? Do you hear players saying I wanna go to NY to play with David Lee? The answer is no. Do not compare David Lee to Amare. Have you seen what Amare does to Tim Duncan and Pau Gasol? He abuses them down low they send double and sometimes even triple teams on Amare. I don't even think David Lee even knows what a double team is. I like Lee's energy and hustle but Amare is a beast and an upgrade. The guy can take over a game someting that David Lee cannot do.

Mray20 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:As of right now--as is the Knicks are no better than last year---Lee and Stoudemire is a wash. Its like we traded Lee for Stoudemire. Its every move after this that will show us if we actually get better or not--if anyone really think Stoudemire is appreciably better than Lee--wrong.

Lee is a nice player but do you hear teams beating down Lee's door to sign him ? Do you hear players saying I wanna go to NY to play with David Lee? The answer is no. Do not compare David Lee to Amare. Have you seen what Amare does to Tim Duncan and Pau Gasol? He abuses them down low they send double and sometimes even triple teams on Amare. I don't even think David Lee even knows what a double team is. I like Lee's energy and hustle but Amare is a beast and an upgrade. The guy can take over a game someting that David Lee cannot do.

Amare averaged something like 40 pts. in a playoff series the Suns played against the toughest defensive team in the game in the Spurs... i don't see D Lee being capable of doing the same, Nash or no Nash.

BRIGGS wrote:

TMS wrote:

Mray20 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:As of right now--as is the Knicks are no better than last year---Lee and Stoudemire is a wash. Its like we traded Lee for Stoudemire. Its every move after this that will show us if we actually get better or not--if anyone really think Stoudemire is appreciably better than Lee--wrong.

Lee is a nice player but do you hear teams beating down Lee's door to sign him ? Do you hear players saying I wanna go to NY to play with David Lee? The answer is no. Do not compare David Lee to Amare. Have you seen what Amare does to Tim Duncan and Pau Gasol? He abuses them down low they send double and sometimes even triple teams on Amare. I don't even think David Lee even knows what a double team is. I like Lee's energy and hustle but Amare is a beast and an upgrade. The guy can take over a game someting that David Lee cannot do.

Amare averaged something like 40 pts. in a playoff series the Suns played against the toughest defensive team in the game in the Spurs... i don't see D Lee being capable of doing the same, Nash or no Nash.

That Amare Stoudemire--yes--than I would say no brainer--but this isn't that same guy

this Amare still puts up 23 & 9 on 56% shooting... i don't see much of a drop off... athletically he's not as explosive but he still puts up the numbers, & he's still plenty athletic enough to jam it down someone's throat anytime he gets close to the rim... Lee has a more well rounded skillset perhaps, but Amare is just dominant... that factors in for a lot.

Solace wrote:

TMS wrote:Amare put up 23, 9 & 1 block against much tougher competition out West on a playoff contender... D Lee put up 20, 12 & 4 assists on 1 of the worst teams in a weaker conference... that's all the convincing i need.

This I agree with also. I would not be shocked to see Amare's rebounding numbers increase, being on the Knicks.

i think someone posted the #'s last year which showed D Lee's stats dipping after Earl Barron joined the team last year (i don't remember who)... & people think they can just slot in his 20 & 12 next year if he played next to Amare? that's crazyness to me... Lee also was never able to take over a game offensively while playing alongside Zach or Eddy Curry, he always played the shallow water role (& did so extremely well)... even when D Lee's getting fed the ball in the lowpost, he doesn't draw double teams the way a guy like Amare regularly does... Lee is a great finisher at the rim, but so is Amare, & when Amare finishes it's much more exciting & psychologically intimidating to the opposition... i like D Lee, always have, but he's not a guy you build around... Amare is.

TMS wrote:Amare put up 23, 9 & 1 block against much tougher competition out West on a playoff contender... D Lee put up 20, 12 & 4 assists on 1 of the worst teams in a weaker conference... that's all the convincing i need.

+1 plus amare gives us a physical presence.. no more watching lee get out muscled by the likes of Al horford.... I will miss lee for sure, but amare is the better player..

Bippity10 wrote:This is just a start, we still have somewhere around 25-30 million to spend over the next two seasons. How anyone in the media or in the fanbase could see this as a negative is beyond me. We are in a good position and this management team has given us absolutely no reason to believe that they are going to make devastating mistakes that destroy us for years to come. We have started over and brought in a major piece. More peices to follow.

Briggs, time to enjoy the possibilities and be happy for a change instead of constantly coveting other players and draft picks. Enjoy yourself.

If we can get Randolph and Ellis from GS for Lee(if no LBJ)

C-Randolph 7-0 230
F Amare 6-10 245
F Gallinari 6-10 240
F Chandler 6-8 225
G Ellis 6-3 185
That would be a tough starting 5 in the east. Randolph brings the 2nd big and the defense
with the speed and versatility and Monta brings a game that can conform to a scoring PG