[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Kareem down with "The Plantation": Says Age Limit Should Be 21
Author Thread
nyk4ever
Posts: 41010
Alba Posts: 12
Joined: 1/12/2005
Member: #848
USA
5/12/2010  10:45 PM
sorry Playa, couldn't help it

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/basketball/abdul-jabbar-says-nba-entry-age-should-be-21/article1566952/

ERIC OLSON

OMAHA, Neb. — The Associated Press Published on Wednesday, May. 12, 2010 8:24PM EDT

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar says the NBA should raise its minimum age for entry into the league to 21.

The NBA's career scoring leader and centre on the Los Angeles Lakers' 1980s “Showtime” teams said Wednesday there's a disturbing sense of entitlement among many of today's young pros.

“They get precocious kids from high school who think they're rock stars — ‘Where's my $30 million?' “ said Abdul-Jabbar, who was in Omaha to speak at the B'nai B'rith sports banquet. “The attitudes have changed, and the game has suffered because of that, and it has certainly hurt the college game.”

The 63-year-old Abdul-Jabbar and Magic Johnson led the Lakers to five NBA titles in the 1980s. Before Abdul-Jabbar retired in 1989, he set the NBA record for career points (38,387), MVP selections (six) and All-Star selections (19).

He now is a special assistant to the Lakers and a best-selling author.

Abdul-Jabbar met students Wednesday at Boys Town, the nationally acclaimed home for troubled youth. He told them about his time at UCLA, where he played on three national championship teams for John Wooden and graduated in four years with degrees in English and history.

“Coach John Wooden encouraged me to be more than just a jock,” Abdul-Jabbar said. “He said if I let my intellectual life suffer because I was so into being an athlete that I would be less than I could be. I would tell all students to pursue your dreams but don't let your education suffer.”

The NBA in 2005 changed its entry age to 19. Players who previously might have jumped from high school to the NBA now end up playing one year of college ball before declaring for the draft.

Those players are still too young, Abdul-Jabbar said, and many deprive themselves of the emotional and physical maturity necessary to meet on- and off-the-court challenges.

“When I played, the players had to go to college and earn their way onto the court, meaning that there were upperclassmen ahead of them,” he said. “Players who had to go through that and had to go to class, when they got to be professional athletes, they were a lot better qualified.”

Abdul-Jabbar said if college weren't the right place for a player, the player should, as an alternative, be required to play in a minor league or developmental league.

Kevin Garnett, Kobe Bryant and LeBron James became stars right out of high school. The day after James all but disappeared in Cleveland's playoff loss to Boston, Abdul-Jabbar said even “King James” would have benefited from college.

“He would have come into the professional ranks very polished, given his innate gifts,” Abdul-Jabbar said. “Having to go through a college system would have made him a total gem as soon as he stepped out of the college ranks.”

Abdul-Jabbar commented on other topics:

— He said his role as co-pilot “Roger Murdock” in the 1980 comedy movie “Airplane” changed his life.

“I think everybody in the airline industry is required to watch it,” he said. “When I get on planes, every so often the stewardess or the pilot will come out and ask me, ‘Do you want to fly the plane?' “

During a flight in Europe, a pilot escorted him from his seat to the ****pit for takeoff.

“I get a good laugh from it,” he said. “It's been over 25 years since I made that movie and people still watch it all the time. I guess it's a classic.”

— He said he has known about Boys Town and its founder, the Rev. Edward Flanagan, since he attended Catholic school in an Irish neighbourhood in New York City. “The Irish were very proud of him and what he had achieved. It's really neat for me to come out here and see it in reality and seeing they're doing such fine work. That is so necessary. People have to care about our youth. They are our most precious resources. If we don't care, what's going to happen.”

— He said his greatest athletic achievement was playing on the Lakers team that beat Boston for the NBA title in 1985.

“But seeing my kids graduate from college and knowing they have a firm basis in life, that is a lot more important to me, personally,” he said.

— He said 6-11 centre Nate Thurmond, who played for Golden State, Chicago and Cleveland, was his toughest matchup.

“A lot of guys beat on me and said they played good defence. Nate actually used skill and knowledge of the game to play against me and make my evenings more difficult when I had to play him,” Abdul-Jabbar said. “He was everything a professional centre should be.”

— He said the “Showtime” Lakers would fare well in the current NBA.

“We had guys on the bench who were Hall-of-Famers,” he said. “That doesn't happen now because there is such a dispersal of talent. We would do very well in this present climate.”

"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
AUTOADVERT
sidsanders
Posts: 22541
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/17/2009
Member: #2426

5/12/2010  10:55 PM
they get a real minor league system, the age limit can go...
GO TEAM VENTURE!!!!!
Cosmic
Posts: 26570
Alba Posts: 27
Joined: 3/17/2006
Member: #1115
USA
5/12/2010  10:58 PM
sidsanders wrote:they get a real minor league system, the age limit can go...

Why we can't just be like MLB I'll never know. It would help things tremendously!

We can shove our Carrols, Barnes, Morris' down and know their ours no matter what.

What is the problem here? I don't get it. But I do understand why most NBA teams laughed at their D-League assignments. Nothing is guaranteed and if you sent a player down he still counted on your roster leaving you no space to move around players.

http://popcornmachine.net/ A must-use tool for NBA stat junkies!
CrushAlot
Posts: 59764
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/25/2003
Member: #452
USA
5/12/2010  10:58 PM
Wooden is a pretty amazing man. He is a lot more than a coach. Wooden has written at least one children's book that is used to teach kids about character. Kareem was very lucky to play for him. Most kids don't get that experience even if they go to college.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Pharzeone
Posts: 32183
Alba Posts: 14
Joined: 2/11/2005
Member: #871
5/13/2010  4:12 AM
Hey Kareem it's illegal and Stern was already warned to take out the 19 age requirement by members of Congress in the next CBA. I doubt he is looking to piss them off any further.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
DrAlphaeus
Posts: 23751
Alba Posts: 10
Joined: 12/19/2007
Member: #1781

5/13/2010  4:55 AM
CrushAlot wrote:Wooden is a pretty amazing man. He is a lot more than a coach. Wooden has written at least one children's book that is used to teach kids about character. Kareem was very lucky to play for him. Most kids don't get that experience even if they go to college.

+1. He gets coached by Wooden and then later by Bruce Lee, can you imagine? Talk about pedigree in becoming a warrior. Kareem is a sharp brother, wrote books on the Harlem Renaissance, black cagers, jazz, coached a basketball team on an Indian reservation, wrote a book about that too, etc. He's right about how both the pro & college game are all out of wack because of the expectations of today's young talent, but I feel like that gate was left open a long time ago... how you gonna get them ponies back in there?

Baba Booey 2016 — "It's Silly Season"
bitty41
Posts: 22316
Alba Posts: 5
Joined: 12/3/2006
Member: #1215

5/13/2010  8:11 AM    LAST EDITED: 5/13/2010  8:12 AM
Cosmic wrote:
sidsanders wrote:they get a real minor league system, the age limit can go...

Why we can't just be like MLB I'll never know. It would help things tremendously!

We can shove our Carrols, Barnes, Morris' down and know their ours no matter what.

What is the problem here? I don't get it. But I do understand why most NBA teams laughed at their D-League assignments. Nothing is guaranteed and if you sent a player down he still counted on your roster leaving you no space to move around players.

Where would the money come from? The NBA is struggling to keep three leagues afloat: NBDL, WNBA, and some franchises in the NBA. Michael Jordan just purchased the Bobcats for measley 25 million dollars. Owners everywhere are desperate to sell their franchises so again where would the money come from for a minor league especially since it is not financially sound to create one.


Pharzeone,

Two things:

1. Congress has taken no action on the NFL's age limit so I don't see why the NBA would be treated any differently.


2. If Congress took this issue up while we have two wars raging, high unemployment, ecological disasters, Immigration, etc I think most Americans would be pretty angry.

arkrud
Posts: 32217
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 8/31/2005
Member: #995
USA
5/13/2010  8:20 AM
The maturity is not about the age but about the background.
Not everybody had a brain to get college education so why push these kids to fake it.
What these kids really need is financial assistance and guidance in private life.
Teams who drafted them should take care about this and be held accountable.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
DurzoBlint
Posts: 23067
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 7/10/2006
Member: #1152
USA
5/13/2010  9:15 AM
There are multiple reasons to consider doing this.

There are those who are starting to think/believe that kids coming strait out of highschool into the nba are serious health risks. Jonathan Bender, McGriddle, and others have cause a concern that the NBA pro grind is too intense for kids who's bodies are still developing.

Of course you have exceptions like LeBron who seems to have a physically mature body able to take such stress.

There are stats that back this up. Kids who come out of high school don't have the same longevity as those who went to college or became pro once they were 20 or older.

Well, there has been a watering down of the nba skill set. Players are coming into the NBA less and less fundamentally sound. The lack of shooting from SHOOTING GUARDS. The Lack of passing from POINT GUARDS. The inability to box out and rebound from Centers and PF's.

I can see/understand when Bigs have trouble shooting ft (don't agree but, I understand) but when you have gaurds who can't shoot them, shows there is a problem.

the fact that you can't even have an unrelated thread without some tool here bringing him up make me think that rational minds are few and far between. Bunch of emotionally weak, angst riddled people. I mean, how many times can you argue the same shyt
Allanfan20
Posts: 35947
Alba Posts: 50
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #542
USA
5/13/2010  9:29 AM
bitty41 wrote:
Cosmic wrote:
sidsanders wrote:they get a real minor league system, the age limit can go...

Why we can't just be like MLB I'll never know. It would help things tremendously!

We can shove our Carrols, Barnes, Morris' down and know their ours no matter what.

What is the problem here? I don't get it. But I do understand why most NBA teams laughed at their D-League assignments. Nothing is guaranteed and if you sent a player down he still counted on your roster leaving you no space to move around players.

Where would the money come from? The NBA is struggling to keep three leagues afloat: NBDL, WNBA, and some franchises in the NBA. Michael Jordan just purchased the Bobcats for measley 25 million dollars. Owners everywhere are desperate to sell their franchises so again where would the money come from for a minor league especially since it is not financially sound to create one.


Pharzeone,

Two things:

1. Congress has taken no action on the NFL's age limit so I don't see why the NBA would be treated any differently.


2. If Congress took this issue up while we have two wars raging, high unemployment, ecological disasters, Immigration, etc I think most Americans would be pretty angry.

I completely agree. It shouldn't even be a big deal if the NBA wants to increase its age limit. I'm actually all for it. The quality of play in the NBA is AWFUL right now. That's because teams just let their players play instantly without even having to earn it, so their development becomes impaired. At least they can learn how to play right in a few years of college or Euroball, while either getting paid overseas or having a free ride here (I still don't see why that's so bad. I'd kill for a free ride) and then their skills are already are much more adequate entering the league.

And I'm going to go by the example I always use. If many corporations require their employees have certain qualifications, like an associates of a bachelors, why does the NBA have that right stripped? Why are they not allowed to improve their product but fortune500 companies and other corporations, that do things so f'ed up that your mind would spin, are allowed. Will someone PLEASE answer that, because I REALLY want to know.

“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Nalod
Posts: 71294
Alba Posts: 155
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
5/13/2010  9:58 AM
All good points. Really,

The list of players breaking down young who come out of highschool is large. Add Eddy, Tyson, and maybe KG to the list discussed.

I think the idea of giving them financial assistance and guidance is what they get in College. Not all players can do this I agree, and for the most part we are talking about a very few players who really qualify for coming out at 18.

If the league is going to dole out big money they should expect a more finished product and professionalism from these players. Maybe even the notion that a player needs to greaduate highshcool and spend time in college is enough to motivate them. Many players who could not cut it in the classroom lost the dream and opportunity. If you can't cut it in the classroom maybe you don't have the dicipline to do other things in life. I know JR Smith has a great jumpshot and many tools for greatness but his head is not right off the court and maybe it bleeds over.

Kareem is a polished man. He was a thinking man as an athlete. Maybe if players were more interesting as people we could be greater fans of them. David Robinson is a great example. John Thompson made sure his trio of Mourning, Ewing and Mutumbo were polished and they had both long fruitful careers and interesting and worthwhile productive lives off the court. On the other spectrum you have Eddy. Maybe if Eddy had to hit the books he would have had more dicipline and greater appreciate the task of being a pro athlete. Its not easy. Guys like Jayson Williams and Bobby Hurley have Duke degrees to fall back on.

Is it so outragious to expect your investment to be qualified to read and write at a certain level? Be great if all graduated but a few years getting financial assisatnce, guidence and an education is no so silly. And remember, very very few players actually make it to the pros!!!! what about all the players who think they got it but don't?

I think if the expectations of high school kids were raised and they HAD TO BE at a certain level more kids would buckle down and demonstrate discipline. If anything it builds self esteem. Being a basketball god at age 17 is dangerous thing. JamesOn Curry lost his UNC Chapel Hill scholarship and ended up playing for Eddy Sutton instead until he flamed out in class and has not made the impact in the NBA he thought. This kid was on THE TRACK TO MILLIONS! He was selling weed on campus his senior year and UNC told him to go away. This kid thought he was above it all.

I like the idea of 21. I also like the idea of teams paying for the kids education and a small amount to assist him. I like the idea of a minimum GPA and they can intern for the team in the summer by playing a summer league and working in the office a bit. See what they got and the players understand the buisness they are going into. They can intern at other places and learn many life skills.

Some will go the Route of Brandon Jennings and learn that way. SOme will learn and do well as he has and some will flame out due to immaturity despite skills. Omar Cook ring a bell? Think POrtland would like to have seen more from Telfair before drafting him? Odens body mature to handle the pounding and grow up a bit to not take pics of his dick?

JrZyHuStLa
Posts: 25677
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 1/5/2007
Member: #1241

5/13/2010  12:46 PM
He doesn't want the high schoolers like Kobe and Lebron to pass him in all time points.

I can read right through this phony.

FU Kareem !

Pharzeone
Posts: 32183
Alba Posts: 14
Joined: 2/11/2005
Member: #871
5/13/2010  2:52 PM    LAST EDITED: 5/13/2010  3:27 PM
bitty41 wrote:
Cosmic wrote:
sidsanders wrote:they get a real minor league system, the age limit can go...

Why we can't just be like MLB I'll never know. It would help things tremendously!

We can shove our Carrols, Barnes, Morris' down and know their ours no matter what.

What is the problem here? I don't get it. But I do understand why most NBA teams laughed at their D-League assignments. Nothing is guaranteed and if you sent a player down he still counted on your roster leaving you no space to move around players.

Where would the money come from? The NBA is struggling to keep three leagues afloat: NBDL, WNBA, and some franchises in the NBA. Michael Jordan just purchased the Bobcats for measley 25 million dollars. Owners everywhere are desperate to sell their franchises so again where would the money come from for a minor league especially since it is not financially sound to create one.


Pharzeone,

Two things:

1. Congress has taken no action on the NFL's age limit so I don't see why the NBA would be treated any differently.


2. If Congress took this issue up while we have two wars raging, high unemployment, ecological disasters, Immigration, etc I think most Americans would be pretty angry.

I think the NFL has an educational requirement (must be at least a junior) and not specific age which is legal. Stern went to extreme by including an age over 18 which violates EEOC law. Also, I don't buy this stuff about Congress can't walk and chew gum at the same time excuses for everything. We saw it a lot with the steroids debate while a war was going on. It's their business to handle different issues at once. That's why they have so many committees and sub-committees. We all can prioritize a country issues differently. And to many congressmen this age issue is very important because it represents discrimination of some kind.


NBA defends age requirement to Congress
By Joel Odom, The Oregonian
July 20, 2009, 3:12PM

WASHINGTON -- The NBA defended its minimum age requirement to Congress, but a critical lawmaker was unmoved and is asking to meet with top league officials to discuss it, according to letters obtained today by The Associated Press.

The rule, which is part of the league's collective bargaining agreement with the players union, requires that players be at least 19 years old and a year out of high school before entering the league. Last month, Democratic Rep. Steve Cohen urged the league and union to scrap the requirement in the next collective bargaining agreement, calling it unfair.

NBA President Joel Litvin told Cohen in a recent letter the purpose of the requirement is to promote the league's business interests by "increasing the chances that incoming players will have the requisite ability, experience, maturity and life skills" to perform at a high level. The policy also helps teams make informed hiring decisions, he wrote.

In addition, he said, players get an extra year to mature and develop, making it more likely they can handle the challenges of being an NBA player.

Litvin said the policy is motivated by "business considerations," not a desire to force players to attend college against their wishes.

He wrote that many employers require job candidates to have post-high school experience, and that the U.S. Constitution sets minimum ages for House of Representatives members, senators and the president. Given that, "we do not understand your objection" to the rule, Litvin wrote.

In a letter sent to Litvin Monday, Cohen maintained that players should have the "economic freedom" to make their own decisions. He said he understood that the policy may help the league in its scouting and hiring decisions.

"However, my concern is that the players who must abide by this rule are harmed by the league's pursuit of these business interests," the congressman wrote, adding that the "age discrimination" prevents players from supporting their families.

The policy increases the chance that such players will be injured before getting the chance to play in the NBA, he added.

"I am concerned that the careers of young men who possess all the skills necessary to succeed in the NBA," Cohen wrote, "may be sacrificed in favor of the bottom lines of the teams on which they hope to play."

Cohen, a member of the House Judiciary Committee, asked for a meeting with Litvin and Commissioner David Stern. Cohen has said that that he'd consider both hearings and legislation if the requirement remains.

Neither the NBA nor the union immediately responded to requests for comment today.

-- The Associated Press

I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
playa2
Posts: 34922
Alba Posts: 15
Joined: 5/15/2003
Member: #407

5/13/2010  3:00 PM
Cosmic wrote:
sidsanders wrote:they get a real minor league system, the age limit can go...

Why we can't just be like MLB I'll never know. It would help things tremendously!

What plantation ever had a minor one ??

JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
kam77
Posts: 27664
Alba Posts: 25
Joined: 3/17/2004
Member: #634
5/13/2010  3:20 PM
Do they make Plantains on plantations?
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
nyk4ever
Posts: 41010
Alba Posts: 12
Joined: 1/12/2005
Member: #848
USA
5/13/2010  3:26 PM
kam77 wrote:Do they make Plantains on plantations?

yes, many many many plantains

"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
DJMUSIC
Posts: 22906
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/30/2007
Member: #1283

5/13/2010  3:36 PM
Cant say whether Hall of Famer Jabbar is 100% right or wrong. He certainly entitled to his say

Fact is I think even though all the young kids coming out <21 are very good, stars-pending there is something lost from the days
Kareem and other big shots played back in the day.

Seems many talented guys (young) have a need but it dont mean they want a title as bad as we want for our team.

All the young talent want to compete but you see very little Kobe Bryant types whom when Kobe came out at what 18 ?
he had the baby jordan killer mode where you can tell he hated losing and winning a game was more important than
$30 Or 50, 60 million dollar contract.

I think that is where Kareem partially comes from since Kids can get a good feel of life through College without having
NBA rescue them and family needs. By no means I want to say if Kid needed to support their family they shouldnt come out.
However the basics & development gets lost when you're too rich $$$ too young.

(only an opinion)

Turntable Musiclover & Mix-Master-ologist
BigDaddyG
Posts: 39932
Alba Posts: 9
Joined: 1/22/2010
Member: #3049

5/13/2010  4:28 PM    LAST EDITED: 5/13/2010  4:29 PM
Cosmic wrote:
sidsanders wrote:they get a real minor league system, the age limit can go...

Why we can't just be like MLB I'll never know. It would help things tremendously!

We can shove our Carrols, Barnes, Morris' down and know their ours no matter what.

What is the problem here? I don't get it. But I do understand why most NBA teams laughed at their D-League assignments. Nothing is guaranteed and if you sent a player down he still counted on your roster leaving you no space to move around players.

Money. Why invest the money to develop a legitimate minor league system when you can get NCAA or a Europen club to do it on their own dime?

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
AnubisADL
Posts: 27382
Alba Posts: 13
Joined: 6/29/2009
Member: #2771
USA
5/13/2010  4:45 PM
BigDaddyG wrote:
Cosmic wrote:
sidsanders wrote:they get a real minor league system, the age limit can go...

Why we can't just be like MLB I'll never know. It would help things tremendously!

We can shove our Carrols, Barnes, Morris' down and know their ours no matter what.

What is the problem here? I don't get it. But I do understand why most NBA teams laughed at their D-League assignments. Nothing is guaranteed and if you sent a player down he still counted on your roster leaving you no space to move around players.

Money. Why invest the money to develop a legitimate minor league system when you can get NCAA or a Europen club to do it on their own dime?

Exactly. The NCAA and NBA are real close. NBA minor league = NCAA sucking BADLY which means no lucrative TV deals.

NY Knicks - Retirement home for players and GMs
sebstar
Posts: 25698
Alba Posts: 4
Joined: 6/2/2002
Member: #249
USA
5/13/2010  6:40 PM    LAST EDITED: 5/13/2010  6:40 PM
If the NBA created a legitimate developmental league filled with top prospects, it would be a money maker.

Kareem is a educated brotha and all, but he's always been a hater. Always. Lol at cats staying in school to hit the books. High level student athletes are there for one reason and one reason only.

My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
Kareem down with "The Plantation": Says Age Limit Should Be 21

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy