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This is What It's All About Come July 1st
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s3231
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4/10/2010  7:11 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/10/2010  7:14 PM
MIAMI _ This is how it feels to ride a Magic carpet:

The NBA rules teams can't send their luxurious private planes to pick up free-agent recruits? No problem. Two very powerful businessmen named Tim Duncan and Grant Hill board commercial flights and learn all the seats in their first-class cabins have been purchased for them so they can have plenty of privacy.

Upon landing in Orlando, Hill and Duncan can see, through the tinted windows of their white stretch limousine, what sports have become.

The limo takes them to the Grand Floridian Spa & Resort, where they stay, courtesy of the Magic, in 1,792 square-feet hotel suites that feature breathtaking patio views of the nightly fireworks over Disney's Cinderella castle and cost, even in "value season," $1,465 per night, not counting the 11 percent sales tax.

When hungry, Hill and Duncan dine on lobster near the grand piano in the VIP room of the Coral Reef Restaurant and watch scuba divers feed the dolphins, manatees, sharks, sea turtles, sting rays and assorted exotic fish in the 5.7 million gallons of seawater that surround them. This acquarium experience is meant to simulate dining in the middle of the sea (except that, in the sea, the scuba drivers probably wouldn't be wearing Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck costumes).

Hill gets a craving to ride roller coasters? An entire theme-park section is closed off so he can have the area to himself. Duncan loves big toys, too, which is why he leaves a lavish barbecue at the $7.5 million home of Orlando's team president so he can ride a Jetski in the lake out back.

The exclusive neighborhood in which Hill and Duncan check out real estate _ named Isleworth, short for Isle Of Worth, and designed as Arnold Palmer's dream community _ features a magnificent country club and golf course. One of its members, fresh off the practice range, stops by the barbecue to help woo Hill and Duncan to Orlando.

His name is Tiger Woods.

There are certain inherent privileges to living in this posh a world, so it didn't surprise Magic executives at all when, even though he was standing before an elaborate buffet, Duncan instead asked for a Wendy's hamburger. See, the Magic had wined and dined Shaquille O'Neal once upon a time and tolerated it when, at an elegant dinner with team executives, O'Neal and his brother started throwing the food at each other. So, a Magic official was promptly dispatched to get Duncan his hamburger, even if all he wanted to do was maybe throw it.

Hill and Duncan, conglomerates, are powerful enough to tip the NBA's balance of power if they decide to team their talents, so the Orlando organization asked them, in Disney-ese, to simply "Imagine ..." They did this by emblazoning the phrase "Imagine ..." across T-shirts and banners that featured Hill and Duncan reaching for the same basketball _ in Magic uniforms, of course. And it had to be overwhelming to the two players, walking into a facility where every employee was wearing these T-shirts, a Disney world created just for them.

This entire recruiting visit felt like cartoon fiction, and you'll excuse Hill and Duncan if they were hypnotized as the talk whirled back and forth from basketball to roller coasters, from work to play, from them visiting the Magic Kingdom to becoming the Magic's kingdom. The worlds of sports and business and entertainment have blurred together so seamlessly that Hill and Duncan, discussing a potential mega-merger, not unlike Time Inc. and America Online, could have asked themselves the very same question regardless of whether they were standing under those patio fireworks or under that basketball rim:

Are we in fantasy land?

Will Hill and Duncan leave Detroit and San Antonio in that white stretch limo's rear-view mirror? Hill has already announced he will. The Pistons could have checked Hill's Web site (granthill.com) to find out his views on teen pregnancy or see him quote Johann Wolfgan Von Goethe or check out his latest compilation video, but what they couldn't learn about him over the last few months was whether he would accept their $80 million.

He finally told them this week that he wouldn't. He did this by phone. So the Grant Hill Era is officially over in Detroit. Not once in six years with him did the Pistons advance beyond the first round of the playoffs.

Team him with Duncan, though, and you make any team in the league an instant championship contender. Duncan, very private, seems undecided. He hasn't uttered a word publicly about his status in a week. His Web site (slamduncan.com) isn't helpful (it's being renovated). And the Spurs are putting up one heck of a fight to keep him.

They flew in teammate and friend David Robinson from his Hawaiian vacation to meet with Duncan, though the Magic countered that by sending Duncan's friends Monty Williams and Johnny Davis to do nothing more than accompany him to Orlando, as if Duncan was a 7-foot 6-year-old who had never flown before. San Antonio taxpayers have essentially countered the fireworks and roller coasters by, ho hum, building Duncan an arena. The Spurs, upon request, will also supply Duncan with Wendy's hamburgers.

"Duncan is the great unknown," Orlando senior vice president Pat Williams says. "We're logjammed league-wide until he makes a decision. What we're doing here in Orlando is the ultimate high-wire act, maybe in sports history. There's no precedent for it. Right now we are sitting here with just three players under contract and the draft rights to Mike Miller. That's it. If this works, it's a magnificent story. If it doesn't, hey, we tried. No risk, no glory."

While the Magic was wooing Hill and Duncan, Chicago's frumpy GM Jerry Krause, who covets both, was harrumphing about what he viewed as Orlando's excessive recruiting efforts. The NBA tried to stifle the excess _ limiting organizations to gifts of less than $500 and not allowing the players to travel with entourages in tow _ but Krause condescendingly complained that, "The quality of people we're going to talk to are very bright and don't have to have a dog-and-pony show put on for them. We're an organization of substance, not flash."

But while the Magic were making preparations to get Tiger Woods to meet Hill and Duncan, Krause and his organization of substance, not flash, was insulting prospective high school draft pick Darius Miles by asking him how many dollars he would have if he had four dollars and Krause gave him five more. Instead of a dog or a pony, what Miles got was a jackass.

The Bulls have apparently wizened up some since then, having seen the appeal Orlando's style had on Hill, so when 21-year-old free agent Tracy McGrady got off an airplane in Chicago on Friday, he was met by the bobbing Chicago mascot and screaming fans carrying banners and begging him to become a Bull. McGrady, though, wants to end up with Hill and Duncan in Orlando, too, calling Orlando "home" and presently taking night classes at nearby Rollins College.

The Bulls and Magic have similar salary-cap space, and Lakers coach Phil Jackson said last season that the Bulls would have an advantage in luring free-agent recruits over the Magic because Chicago was far more cultured than Orlando, which he dubbed "a plastic town."

Counters Williams, the team's senior vice president: "I understand that if you took away our Waffle Houses we wouldn't have any culture. But I've never before heard that the vibrancy of museums was a lure for NBA free agents. Look, Florida is meant to be fun. We're about lakes, bass fishing, sunshine, Mickey Mouse, Shamu and fun. We just wanted these guys to have fun. And you could tell they were impacted."

The Magic _ owned by Rich DeVos, the grandfatherly man who started Amway out of his garage with $500 and turned it into a $6 billion business _ did show a moment of restraint, though. After Hill and Duncan had done everything from tour the ostentatious team plane to see Magic jerseys with their names and numbers hanging in the Orlando locker room, Magic officials learned that Duncan wasn't much in the mood to be surrounded by a bunch of Disney characters.

So the employees steaming in those Mickey, Goofy and Donald costumes were promptly sent away.

And the officials of the Magic kingdom continued uninterrupted in wishing upon a star.


http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/orlando-magic-look-impress-grant-hill-tim-duncan-old-1178628/


Orlando came awfully close to getting Duncan, Hill, and McGrady that summer. While they didn't get all 3, they still did pretty damn good with McGrady and Hill.

Now just imagine what Walsh, Gabriel (who was a part of that 2000 Orlando recruiting crew), and the rest of the Knicks crew are planning come July 1st. This is where you get creative and do everything possible to lure stars to NY with the idea of starting a dynasty. Gabriel and crew did an excellent job of using Orlando's advantages to appeal to the superstars in 2000 and you have to believe that Walsh and Gabriel are planning the same thing for this summer. New York has a lot of appeal and the possibilities are endless.

And guess what, Duncan and Hill both told their respective teams they planned on staying. Well, Duncan verbally committed to Orlando after his visit and Hill called Dumars later that week to tell him his decision to go to the Magic. That's why folks, we don't know what is going to happen until July rolls around and these free agents get the ultimate recruiting trip.

This is why we sacrificed 2 seasons, traded protected picks, and Jordan Hill..... to have a shot at a dream summer.

"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
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AnubisADL
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4/10/2010  7:23 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/10/2010  7:25 PM
Fact is Duncan didnt leave. Just like Kidd didnt leave NJ.

An Joe Johnson(Grant Hill) and Rudy Gay(Tracy Mcgrady) summer would be nice though. Maybe Gay can breakout here but I doubt it.

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TMS
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4/10/2010  9:31 PM
the Magic got Grant Hill & T-Mac by trading assets

August 3, 2000:
Pistons trade Grant Hill to the Orlando Magic in a sign-and-trade deal for Chucky Atkins and Ben Wallace.
Raptors trade Tracy McGrady to the Orlando Magic in a sign-and-trade deal for a first round pick.

which assets do you think we can use this summer to land us the top talent available? do u think Gallo is going anywhere? personally i don't get that feeling bro... i think he's here to stay... David Lee is a possibility & so is Wilson Chandler, but will those 2 be enough to land Lebron or Wade? i doubt it highly... Bosh or Amare i can see for those guys, but who will be left over for them to play with if we make that deal? Gallo, Douglas & Bill Walker? is that going to attract a bigname FA like Bosh or Amare to want to work out a sign & trade to come play here?... we gave up our 1st round pick rights for the next 2 drafts so the option to trade picks is off the table too... our options are going to be limited this summer unless we can find some team looking to dump a contract for Eddy's expiring, but even that won't net you the types of players u can build your franchise around... if we can't convince the top FA's to sign here outright, IMO it's highly likely we end up overpaying to keep David Lee.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Childs2Dudley
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4/10/2010  10:18 PM
TMS wrote:the Magic got Grant Hill & T-Mac by trading assets

August 3, 2000:
Pistons trade Grant Hill to the Orlando Magic in a sign-and-trade deal for Chucky Atkins and Ben Wallace.
Raptors trade Tracy McGrady to the Orlando Magic in a sign-and-trade deal for a first round pick.

which assets do you think we can use this summer to land us the top talent available? do u think Gallo is going anywhere? personally i don't get that feeling bro... i think he's here to stay... David Lee is a possibility & so is Wilson Chandler, but will those 2 be enough to land Lebron or Wade? i doubt it highly... Bosh or Amare i can see for those guys, but who will be left over for them to play with if we make that deal? Gallo, Douglas & Bill Walker? is that going to attract a bigname FA like Bosh or Amare to want to work out a sign & trade to come play here?... we gave up our 1st round pick rights for the next 2 drafts so the option to trade picks is off the table too... our options are going to be limited this summer unless we can find some team looking to dump a contract for Eddy's expiring, but even that won't net you the types of players u can build your franchise around... if we can't convince the top FA's to sign here outright, IMO it's highly likely we end up overpaying to keep David Lee.

Ben Wallace and Chucky Atkins were hardly assets at the time.

"Our attitude toward life determines life's attitude towards us." - Earl Nightingale
BRIGGS
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4/10/2010  10:23 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/10/2010  10:25 PM
s3231 wrote:
MIAMI _ This is how it feels to ride a Magic carpet:

The NBA rules teams can't send their luxurious private planes to pick up free-agent recruits? No problem. Two very powerful businessmen named Tim Duncan and Grant Hill board commercial flights and learn all the seats in their first-class cabins have been purchased for them so they can have plenty of privacy.

Upon landing in Orlando, Hill and Duncan can see, through the tinted windows of their white stretch limousine, what sports have become.

The limo takes them to the Grand Floridian Spa & Resort, where they stay, courtesy of the Magic, in 1,792 square-feet hotel suites that feature breathtaking patio views of the nightly fireworks over Disney's Cinderella castle and cost, even in "value season," $1,465 per night, not counting the 11 percent sales tax.

When hungry, Hill and Duncan dine on lobster near the grand piano in the VIP room of the Coral Reef Restaurant and watch scuba divers feed the dolphins, manatees, sharks, sea turtles, sting rays and assorted exotic fish in the 5.7 million gallons of seawater that surround them. This acquarium experience is meant to simulate dining in the middle of the sea (except that, in the sea, the scuba drivers probably wouldn't be wearing Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck costumes).

Hill gets a craving to ride roller coasters? An entire theme-park section is closed off so he can have the area to himself. Duncan loves big toys, too, which is why he leaves a lavish barbecue at the $7.5 million home of Orlando's team president so he can ride a Jetski in the lake out back.

The exclusive neighborhood in which Hill and Duncan check out real estate _ named Isleworth, short for Isle Of Worth, and designed as Arnold Palmer's dream community _ features a magnificent country club and golf course. One of its members, fresh off the practice range, stops by the barbecue to help woo Hill and Duncan to Orlando.

His name is Tiger Woods.

There are certain inherent privileges to living in this posh a world, so it didn't surprise Magic executives at all when, even though he was standing before an elaborate buffet, Duncan instead asked for a Wendy's hamburger. See, the Magic had wined and dined Shaquille O'Neal once upon a time and tolerated it when, at an elegant dinner with team executives, O'Neal and his brother started throwing the food at each other. So, a Magic official was promptly dispatched to get Duncan his hamburger, even if all he wanted to do was maybe throw it.

Hill and Duncan, conglomerates, are powerful enough to tip the NBA's balance of power if they decide to team their talents, so the Orlando organization asked them, in Disney-ese, to simply "Imagine ..." They did this by emblazoning the phrase "Imagine ..." across T-shirts and banners that featured Hill and Duncan reaching for the same basketball _ in Magic uniforms, of course. And it had to be overwhelming to the two players, walking into a facility where every employee was wearing these T-shirts, a Disney world created just for them.

This entire recruiting visit felt like cartoon fiction, and you'll excuse Hill and Duncan if they were hypnotized as the talk whirled back and forth from basketball to roller coasters, from work to play, from them visiting the Magic Kingdom to becoming the Magic's kingdom. The worlds of sports and business and entertainment have blurred together so seamlessly that Hill and Duncan, discussing a potential mega-merger, not unlike Time Inc. and America Online, could have asked themselves the very same question regardless of whether they were standing under those patio fireworks or under that basketball rim:

Are we in fantasy land?

Will Hill and Duncan leave Detroit and San Antonio in that white stretch limo's rear-view mirror? Hill has already announced he will. The Pistons could have checked Hill's Web site (granthill.com) to find out his views on teen pregnancy or see him quote Johann Wolfgan Von Goethe or check out his latest compilation video, but what they couldn't learn about him over the last few months was whether he would accept their $80 million.

He finally told them this week that he wouldn't. He did this by phone. So the Grant Hill Era is officially over in Detroit. Not once in six years with him did the Pistons advance beyond the first round of the playoffs.

Team him with Duncan, though, and you make any team in the league an instant championship contender. Duncan, very private, seems undecided. He hasn't uttered a word publicly about his status in a week. His Web site (slamduncan.com) isn't helpful (it's being renovated). And the Spurs are putting up one heck of a fight to keep him.

They flew in teammate and friend David Robinson from his Hawaiian vacation to meet with Duncan, though the Magic countered that by sending Duncan's friends Monty Williams and Johnny Davis to do nothing more than accompany him to Orlando, as if Duncan was a 7-foot 6-year-old who had never flown before. San Antonio taxpayers have essentially countered the fireworks and roller coasters by, ho hum, building Duncan an arena. The Spurs, upon request, will also supply Duncan with Wendy's hamburgers.

"Duncan is the great unknown," Orlando senior vice president Pat Williams says. "We're logjammed league-wide until he makes a decision. What we're doing here in Orlando is the ultimate high-wire act, maybe in sports history. There's no precedent for it. Right now we are sitting here with just three players under contract and the draft rights to Mike Miller. That's it. If this works, it's a magnificent story. If it doesn't, hey, we tried. No risk, no glory."

While the Magic was wooing Hill and Duncan, Chicago's frumpy GM Jerry Krause, who covets both, was harrumphing about what he viewed as Orlando's excessive recruiting efforts. The NBA tried to stifle the excess _ limiting organizations to gifts of less than $500 and not allowing the players to travel with entourages in tow _ but Krause condescendingly complained that, "The quality of people we're going to talk to are very bright and don't have to have a dog-and-pony show put on for them. We're an organization of substance, not flash."

But while the Magic were making preparations to get Tiger Woods to meet Hill and Duncan, Krause and his organization of substance, not flash, was insulting prospective high school draft pick Darius Miles by asking him how many dollars he would have if he had four dollars and Krause gave him five more. Instead of a dog or a pony, what Miles got was a jackass.

The Bulls have apparently wizened up some since then, having seen the appeal Orlando's style had on Hill, so when 21-year-old free agent Tracy McGrady got off an airplane in Chicago on Friday, he was met by the bobbing Chicago mascot and screaming fans carrying banners and begging him to become a Bull. McGrady, though, wants to end up with Hill and Duncan in Orlando, too, calling Orlando "home" and presently taking night classes at nearby Rollins College.

The Bulls and Magic have similar salary-cap space, and Lakers coach Phil Jackson said last season that the Bulls would have an advantage in luring free-agent recruits over the Magic because Chicago was far more cultured than Orlando, which he dubbed "a plastic town."

Counters Williams, the team's senior vice president: "I understand that if you took away our Waffle Houses we wouldn't have any culture. But I've never before heard that the vibrancy of museums was a lure for NBA free agents. Look, Florida is meant to be fun. We're about lakes, bass fishing, sunshine, Mickey Mouse, Shamu and fun. We just wanted these guys to have fun. And you could tell they were impacted."

The Magic _ owned by Rich DeVos, the grandfatherly man who started Amway out of his garage with $500 and turned it into a $6 billion business _ did show a moment of restraint, though. After Hill and Duncan had done everything from tour the ostentatious team plane to see Magic jerseys with their names and numbers hanging in the Orlando locker room, Magic officials learned that Duncan wasn't much in the mood to be surrounded by a bunch of Disney characters.

So the employees steaming in those Mickey, Goofy and Donald costumes were promptly sent away.

And the officials of the Magic kingdom continued uninterrupted in wishing upon a star.


http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/orlando-magic-look-impress-grant-hill-tim-duncan-old-1178628/


Orlando came awfully close to getting Duncan, Hill, and McGrady that summer. While they didn't get all 3, they still did pretty damn good with McGrady and Hill.

Now just imagine what Walsh, Gabriel (who was a part of that 2000 Orlando recruiting crew), and the rest of the Knicks crew are planning come July 1st. This is where you get creative and do everything possible to lure stars to NY with the idea of starting a dynasty. Gabriel and crew did an excellent job of using Orlando's advantages to appeal to the superstars in 2000 and you have to believe that Walsh and Gabriel are planning the same thing for this summer. New York has a lot of appeal and the possibilities are endless.

And guess what, Duncan and Hill both told their respective teams they planned on staying. Well, Duncan verbally committed to Orlando after his visit and Hill called Dumars later that week to tell him his decision to go to the Magic. That's why folks, we don't know what is going to happen until July rolls around and these free agents get the ultimate recruiting trip.

This is why we sacrificed 2 seasons, traded protected picks, and Jordan Hill..... to have a shot at a dream summer.

How did that workout for Orlando? They had to gut the team one of the guys got injured and they were terrible for 7 years. Paying two guys the max in FA is crazy.

RIP Crushalot😞
alau53
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4/10/2010  10:31 PM
why would lebron want the knicks to give up players and assets to cum play for the knicks..to get the 6th yr of contract?..cmmmonnn man...lebron needs players more than the 6th year which he will more than make up 4 it with endorsements...but if they do a sign and trade for bosh or johnson to give them a 6th yr of guarantee it would just be another bad move by this regime
TMS
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4/10/2010  10:41 PM
Childs2Dudley wrote:
TMS wrote:the Magic got Grant Hill & T-Mac by trading assets

August 3, 2000:
Pistons trade Grant Hill to the Orlando Magic in a sign-and-trade deal for Chucky Atkins and Ben Wallace.
Raptors trade Tracy McGrady to the Orlando Magic in a sign-and-trade deal for a first round pick.

which assets do you think we can use this summer to land us the top talent available? do u think Gallo is going anywhere? personally i don't get that feeling bro... i think he's here to stay... David Lee is a possibility & so is Wilson Chandler, but will those 2 be enough to land Lebron or Wade? i doubt it highly... Bosh or Amare i can see for those guys, but who will be left over for them to play with if we make that deal? Gallo, Douglas & Bill Walker? is that going to attract a bigname FA like Bosh or Amare to want to work out a sign & trade to come play here?... we gave up our 1st round pick rights for the next 2 drafts so the option to trade picks is off the table too... our options are going to be limited this summer unless we can find some team looking to dump a contract for Eddy's expiring, but even that won't net you the types of players u can build your franchise around... if we can't convince the top FA's to sign here outright, IMO it's highly likely we end up overpaying to keep David Lee.

Ben Wallace and Chucky Atkins were hardly assets at the time.

Ben Wallace only became the best defensive C in the game at 6'6" & was a key component of a championship squad for DET... i think they made out just fine in that trade.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Childs2Dudley
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4/11/2010  12:36 AM
TMS wrote:
Childs2Dudley wrote:
TMS wrote:the Magic got Grant Hill & T-Mac by trading assets

August 3, 2000:
Pistons trade Grant Hill to the Orlando Magic in a sign-and-trade deal for Chucky Atkins and Ben Wallace.
Raptors trade Tracy McGrady to the Orlando Magic in a sign-and-trade deal for a first round pick.

which assets do you think we can use this summer to land us the top talent available? do u think Gallo is going anywhere? personally i don't get that feeling bro... i think he's here to stay... David Lee is a possibility & so is Wilson Chandler, but will those 2 be enough to land Lebron or Wade? i doubt it highly... Bosh or Amare i can see for those guys, but who will be left over for them to play with if we make that deal? Gallo, Douglas & Bill Walker? is that going to attract a bigname FA like Bosh or Amare to want to work out a sign & trade to come play here?... we gave up our 1st round pick rights for the next 2 drafts so the option to trade picks is off the table too... our options are going to be limited this summer unless we can find some team looking to dump a contract for Eddy's expiring, but even that won't net you the types of players u can build your franchise around... if we can't convince the top FA's to sign here outright, IMO it's highly likely we end up overpaying to keep David Lee.

Ben Wallace and Chucky Atkins were hardly assets at the time.

Ben Wallace only became the best defensive C in the game at 6'6" & was a key component of a championship squad for DET... i think they made out just fine in that trade.

What does that have to do with your original post? You said they were assets when in reality both Atkins and Wallace were scrubs who were barely playing, especially Wallace. What he did in Detroit after is irrelevant to his value prior to the trade.

"Our attitude toward life determines life's attitude towards us." - Earl Nightingale
Cosmic
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4/11/2010  7:47 AM
It's all about trading the future best big man to ever play the game: Jordan Hill. Wilt WHO? LOL Jordan Hill will destroy Wilt's records!


And Atkins and Wallace were absolute TRASH when traded. Wallace missed free throws by three FEET at times. Magic wanted to cut him! But threw him in a trade. Who knew the NBA would let him throw people to the ground with out getting called for fouls. Who knew he'd get the NBA's WWF Bruce Bowen treatment where he could do anything he wanted and still stay on the court. Wallace was a D-League caliber player every day he was in the NBA. It's the NBA that let him be a "star" for four years. If not, then why was he a complete scrub prior and after the fact? Gee, I wonder why.

Everything the Celtics sent out were scrubs. Everyone not named Jeff Green and Al Jefferson (who is bombing as a human being as we speak. future eddie griffen here) when the Celtics made their deals were scrubs.

Some will try to say different but they're wrong. Some will try to say the Knicks have nothing (Lee, Gallo, Chandler, Douglas, rights to Duhon, Harrington)... while the Celtics sent out some super assets! (Broken down Wally and Ratliff, wayne "superstar" ellington, etc).

Give me a break.

It's just another way to trash the team you're supposedly a fan of....but really aren't.

http://popcornmachine.net/ A must-use tool for NBA stat junkies!
knicks1248
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4/11/2010  10:49 AM
Cosmic wrote:It's all about trading the future best big man to ever play the game: Jordan Hill. Wilt WHO? LOL Jordan Hill will destroy Wilt's records!


And Atkins and Wallace were absolute TRASH when traded. Wallace missed free throws by three FEET at times. Magic wanted to cut him! But threw him in a trade. Who knew the NBA would let him throw people to the ground with out getting called for fouls. Who knew he'd get the NBA's WWF Bruce Bowen treatment where he could do anything he wanted and still stay on the court. Wallace was a D-League caliber player every day he was in the NBA. It's the NBA that let him be a "star" for four years. If not, then why was he a complete scrub prior and after the fact? Gee, I wonder why.

Everything the Celtics sent out were scrubs. Everyone not named Jeff Green and Al Jefferson (who is bombing as a human being as we speak. future eddie griffen here) when the Celtics made their deals were scrubs.

Some will try to say different but they're wrong. Some will try to say the Knicks have nothing (Lee, Gallo, Chandler, Douglas, rights to Duhon, Harrington)... while the Celtics sent out some super assets! (Broken down Wally and Ratliff, wayne "superstar" ellington, etc).

Give me a break.

It's just another way to trash the team you're supposedly a fan of....but really aren't.

I believe the NBA has it's influence on certain deals (kwame for Gasol) Then it's the big super star AGENTS that Broker some of the most lopsided deals we could imagine.

I firmly believe that the Mcgrady deal was a product of this same process. It's amazing that NY has gone this long with out a franchise Player and i believe STERN wants to change that, epsecially coming from ( like the mob would say ) your biggest earner..IF LBJ or WADE come to NY it won't just be for a championship BY far...

ES
iSergio
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4/11/2010  12:20 PM
Yeah, July is going to be crazy. You know Donnie Walsh, Mike D'Antoni and the entire city is going to go all out. You know current Stars like Derek Jeter, A-Rod, Eli Manning among others will be on it too. I wouldn't be surprised if maybe the mayor approves some type of parade or party - just to get these guys a taste of what winning in New York COULD feel like. If I were Walsh and D'Antoni, I'd take LeBron James on top of the Empire State Building and tell him, "this entire city, all of it, could be yours." Let Cleveland try to counter that!!
KnicksSince88
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4/11/2010  12:37 PM
I don't want anything to do with Joe Johnson at all. Let someone else spend big money on a guy entering his 30's who isn't a franchise player anyway

Id rather sit on the money and wait until next offseason if our options for bigtime FA are Joe Johnson or nothing. Gay is a different case. I would have interest in him at the right price

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4/11/2010  1:11 PM
Walsh has to be very smart with the cap space. The simple plan, sign LeBron and another big name does not appear like it is going to happen.
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4/11/2010  2:25 PM
After Lebron there is a formula of success that is not obvious but it requires a series of small moves that add up.

Mr Snickerdoodle could be a good fit for this team, and others that have been mentioned as smaller pieces.

How about we recieve draft picks along with expirings to rebuild that way if we can't get Lebron? It is like a do over in a sense but at least we had our shot, took it and then in a way rewound.

But me, you get some hard core pipe hitting motherphuchers and take Lebron to the top of the Empire state building but dangle his ass by the ankles until he signs. .

TMS
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4/11/2010  2:27 PM
Nalod wrote:After Lebron there is a formula of success that is not obvious but it requires a series of small moves that add up.

Mr Snickerdoodle could be a good fit for this team, and others that have been mentioned as smaller pieces.

How about we recieve draft picks along with expirings to rebuild that way if we can't get Lebron? It is like a do over in a sense but at least we had our shot, took it and then in a way rewound.

But me, you get some hard core pipe hitting motherphuchers and take Lebron to the top of the Empire state building but dangle his ass by the ankles until he signs. .

don't forget the pair of pliars & the blowtorch.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
s3231
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4/11/2010  7:24 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/11/2010  7:31 PM
TMS wrote:
Childs2Dudley wrote:
TMS wrote:the Magic got Grant Hill & T-Mac by trading assets

August 3, 2000:
Pistons trade Grant Hill to the Orlando Magic in a sign-and-trade deal for Chucky Atkins and Ben Wallace.
Raptors trade Tracy McGrady to the Orlando Magic in a sign-and-trade deal for a first round pick.

which assets do you think we can use this summer to land us the top talent available? do u think Gallo is going anywhere? personally i don't get that feeling bro... i think he's here to stay... David Lee is a possibility & so is Wilson Chandler, but will those 2 be enough to land Lebron or Wade? i doubt it highly... Bosh or Amare i can see for those guys, but who will be left over for them to play with if we make that deal? Gallo, Douglas & Bill Walker? is that going to attract a bigname FA like Bosh or Amare to want to work out a sign & trade to come play here?... we gave up our 1st round pick rights for the next 2 drafts so the option to trade picks is off the table too... our options are going to be limited this summer unless we can find some team looking to dump a contract for Eddy's expiring, but even that won't net you the types of players u can build your franchise around... if we can't convince the top FA's to sign here outright, IMO it's highly likely we end up overpaying to keep David Lee.

Ben Wallace and Chucky Atkins were hardly assets at the time.

Ben Wallace only became the best defensive C in the game at 6'6" & was a key component of a championship squad for DET... i think they made out just fine in that trade.

I've said all along that if we get any of these superstars, we're going to have to give up players and that we won't just outright sign them, so not sure if/why your post was directed at me?

The point is, if these superstars decide they want to go to a certain place, they will go there even if it means signing outright. Of course, the most desirable outcome for most parties is a sign and trade. That will obviously be explored first but it doesn't mean the stars will let the teams they are joining gut themselves. Guys like Wilson Chandler, Toney Douglas, and Bill Walker are all expendable if it means bringing in LeBron and/or Bosh.

Ben Wallace ended up being a stud for the Pistons but both him and Atkins did not have significant value as trade assets when that Hill deal went through. Keep in mind, Hill told Dumars he was going to Orlando before any sign and trade was brought up. Dumars isn't an idiot and realized he better get something for Grant before he let him go. Fortunately for him, one of those pieces ended up being a core player on a championship team for him. Likewise, Orlando was receptive to sign and trades to free up some room to possibly add Duncan to Hill and T-Mac, which they came pretty damn close to achieving.

The moves Orlando made from that off-season feel eerily similar to this free agency coming up. Duncan and Hill both had same representation and now we have just learned that Bosh, Wade, and LeBron are all under the same agency. You have to believe that one of the pitches that Donnie and Gabriel are working on is to bring all 3 of those stars in and throw the idea out there that they could create a dynasty in NY. As we have already seen, the Knicks will do anything possible to bring in superstars even if it means trading Gallo to shed Curry's contract and possibly bring in a 3rd star.

The point of this thread is simple. These superstars can tell us their intentions for next season right now or they can even do it the week before July 1st but we all should know from the above story that they can just as easily change their mind come July 1st. The temptation will certainly be there and if a guy like Tim Duncan (who had already won a title at that point) can come awfully close to jumping ship, you have to believe someone like LeBron, who loves the attention, can certainly be tempted to join another franchise. Will he do that? I'm not saying I know or that I think I know what LeBron will do but I don't think it's much of a stretch to say that there will be temptation. I think a lot of you guys forget how good Grant Hill was in the 90s. The guy was a superstar and he loved being in Detroit, living next to his mentor Joe Dumars. Yet, after telling Joe he was going to return to Detroit, it only took one trip to Orlando to change his mind.

That's why anyone that says that LeBron is staying or going most likely doesn't know crap at this point.

"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
s3231
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4/11/2010  7:27 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
s3231 wrote:
MIAMI _ This is how it feels to ride a Magic carpet:

The NBA rules teams can't send their luxurious private planes to pick up free-agent recruits? No problem. Two very powerful businessmen named Tim Duncan and Grant Hill board commercial flights and learn all the seats in their first-class cabins have been purchased for them so they can have plenty of privacy.

Upon landing in Orlando, Hill and Duncan can see, through the tinted windows of their white stretch limousine, what sports have become.

The limo takes them to the Grand Floridian Spa & Resort, where they stay, courtesy of the Magic, in 1,792 square-feet hotel suites that feature breathtaking patio views of the nightly fireworks over Disney's Cinderella castle and cost, even in "value season," $1,465 per night, not counting the 11 percent sales tax.

When hungry, Hill and Duncan dine on lobster near the grand piano in the VIP room of the Coral Reef Restaurant and watch scuba divers feed the dolphins, manatees, sharks, sea turtles, sting rays and assorted exotic fish in the 5.7 million gallons of seawater that surround them. This acquarium experience is meant to simulate dining in the middle of the sea (except that, in the sea, the scuba drivers probably wouldn't be wearing Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck costumes).

Hill gets a craving to ride roller coasters? An entire theme-park section is closed off so he can have the area to himself. Duncan loves big toys, too, which is why he leaves a lavish barbecue at the $7.5 million home of Orlando's team president so he can ride a Jetski in the lake out back.

The exclusive neighborhood in which Hill and Duncan check out real estate _ named Isleworth, short for Isle Of Worth, and designed as Arnold Palmer's dream community _ features a magnificent country club and golf course. One of its members, fresh off the practice range, stops by the barbecue to help woo Hill and Duncan to Orlando.

His name is Tiger Woods.

There are certain inherent privileges to living in this posh a world, so it didn't surprise Magic executives at all when, even though he was standing before an elaborate buffet, Duncan instead asked for a Wendy's hamburger. See, the Magic had wined and dined Shaquille O'Neal once upon a time and tolerated it when, at an elegant dinner with team executives, O'Neal and his brother started throwing the food at each other. So, a Magic official was promptly dispatched to get Duncan his hamburger, even if all he wanted to do was maybe throw it.

Hill and Duncan, conglomerates, are powerful enough to tip the NBA's balance of power if they decide to team their talents, so the Orlando organization asked them, in Disney-ese, to simply "Imagine ..." They did this by emblazoning the phrase "Imagine ..." across T-shirts and banners that featured Hill and Duncan reaching for the same basketball _ in Magic uniforms, of course. And it had to be overwhelming to the two players, walking into a facility where every employee was wearing these T-shirts, a Disney world created just for them.

This entire recruiting visit felt like cartoon fiction, and you'll excuse Hill and Duncan if they were hypnotized as the talk whirled back and forth from basketball to roller coasters, from work to play, from them visiting the Magic Kingdom to becoming the Magic's kingdom. The worlds of sports and business and entertainment have blurred together so seamlessly that Hill and Duncan, discussing a potential mega-merger, not unlike Time Inc. and America Online, could have asked themselves the very same question regardless of whether they were standing under those patio fireworks or under that basketball rim:

Are we in fantasy land?

Will Hill and Duncan leave Detroit and San Antonio in that white stretch limo's rear-view mirror? Hill has already announced he will. The Pistons could have checked Hill's Web site (granthill.com) to find out his views on teen pregnancy or see him quote Johann Wolfgan Von Goethe or check out his latest compilation video, but what they couldn't learn about him over the last few months was whether he would accept their $80 million.

He finally told them this week that he wouldn't. He did this by phone. So the Grant Hill Era is officially over in Detroit. Not once in six years with him did the Pistons advance beyond the first round of the playoffs.

Team him with Duncan, though, and you make any team in the league an instant championship contender. Duncan, very private, seems undecided. He hasn't uttered a word publicly about his status in a week. His Web site (slamduncan.com) isn't helpful (it's being renovated). And the Spurs are putting up one heck of a fight to keep him.

They flew in teammate and friend David Robinson from his Hawaiian vacation to meet with Duncan, though the Magic countered that by sending Duncan's friends Monty Williams and Johnny Davis to do nothing more than accompany him to Orlando, as if Duncan was a 7-foot 6-year-old who had never flown before. San Antonio taxpayers have essentially countered the fireworks and roller coasters by, ho hum, building Duncan an arena. The Spurs, upon request, will also supply Duncan with Wendy's hamburgers.

"Duncan is the great unknown," Orlando senior vice president Pat Williams says. "We're logjammed league-wide until he makes a decision. What we're doing here in Orlando is the ultimate high-wire act, maybe in sports history. There's no precedent for it. Right now we are sitting here with just three players under contract and the draft rights to Mike Miller. That's it. If this works, it's a magnificent story. If it doesn't, hey, we tried. No risk, no glory."

While the Magic was wooing Hill and Duncan, Chicago's frumpy GM Jerry Krause, who covets both, was harrumphing about what he viewed as Orlando's excessive recruiting efforts. The NBA tried to stifle the excess _ limiting organizations to gifts of less than $500 and not allowing the players to travel with entourages in tow _ but Krause condescendingly complained that, "The quality of people we're going to talk to are very bright and don't have to have a dog-and-pony show put on for them. We're an organization of substance, not flash."

But while the Magic were making preparations to get Tiger Woods to meet Hill and Duncan, Krause and his organization of substance, not flash, was insulting prospective high school draft pick Darius Miles by asking him how many dollars he would have if he had four dollars and Krause gave him five more. Instead of a dog or a pony, what Miles got was a jackass.

The Bulls have apparently wizened up some since then, having seen the appeal Orlando's style had on Hill, so when 21-year-old free agent Tracy McGrady got off an airplane in Chicago on Friday, he was met by the bobbing Chicago mascot and screaming fans carrying banners and begging him to become a Bull. McGrady, though, wants to end up with Hill and Duncan in Orlando, too, calling Orlando "home" and presently taking night classes at nearby Rollins College.

The Bulls and Magic have similar salary-cap space, and Lakers coach Phil Jackson said last season that the Bulls would have an advantage in luring free-agent recruits over the Magic because Chicago was far more cultured than Orlando, which he dubbed "a plastic town."

Counters Williams, the team's senior vice president: "I understand that if you took away our Waffle Houses we wouldn't have any culture. But I've never before heard that the vibrancy of museums was a lure for NBA free agents. Look, Florida is meant to be fun. We're about lakes, bass fishing, sunshine, Mickey Mouse, Shamu and fun. We just wanted these guys to have fun. And you could tell they were impacted."

The Magic _ owned by Rich DeVos, the grandfatherly man who started Amway out of his garage with $500 and turned it into a $6 billion business _ did show a moment of restraint, though. After Hill and Duncan had done everything from tour the ostentatious team plane to see Magic jerseys with their names and numbers hanging in the Orlando locker room, Magic officials learned that Duncan wasn't much in the mood to be surrounded by a bunch of Disney characters.

So the employees steaming in those Mickey, Goofy and Donald costumes were promptly sent away.

And the officials of the Magic kingdom continued uninterrupted in wishing upon a star.


http://slumz.boxden.com/f16/orlando-magic-look-impress-grant-hill-tim-duncan-old-1178628/


Orlando came awfully close to getting Duncan, Hill, and McGrady that summer. While they didn't get all 3, they still did pretty damn good with McGrady and Hill.

Now just imagine what Walsh, Gabriel (who was a part of that 2000 Orlando recruiting crew), and the rest of the Knicks crew are planning come July 1st. This is where you get creative and do everything possible to lure stars to NY with the idea of starting a dynasty. Gabriel and crew did an excellent job of using Orlando's advantages to appeal to the superstars in 2000 and you have to believe that Walsh and Gabriel are planning the same thing for this summer. New York has a lot of appeal and the possibilities are endless.

And guess what, Duncan and Hill both told their respective teams they planned on staying. Well, Duncan verbally committed to Orlando after his visit and Hill called Dumars later that week to tell him his decision to go to the Magic. That's why folks, we don't know what is going to happen until July rolls around and these free agents get the ultimate recruiting trip.

This is why we sacrificed 2 seasons, traded protected picks, and Jordan Hill..... to have a shot at a dream summer.

How did that workout for Orlando? They had to gut the team one of the guys got injured and they were terrible for 7 years. Paying two guys the max in FA is crazy.


Orlando ended up with 2 superstars. One of them got injured and was never the same but is that seriously their fault?

Let me ask you something BRIGGS, if the Knicks get Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh in the off-season, would you be happy? My bet is that you would be. But then if a year later, Wade gets hurt and is never the same, would that be Donnie's fault?

There are certain things that are out of your control. If you bring in two superstars within a 3 year period, you certainly did your job.

"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
TMS
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4/11/2010  7:55 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/11/2010  7:56 PM
s3231 wrote:I've said all along that if we get any of these superstars, we're going to have to give up players and that we won't just outright sign them, so not sure if/why your post was directed at me?

The point is, if these superstars decide they want to go to a certain place, they will go there even if it means signing outright. Of course, the most desirable outcome for most parties is a sign and trade. That will obviously be explored first but it doesn't mean the stars will let the teams they are joining gut themselves. Guys like Wilson Chandler, Toney Douglas, and Bill Walker are all expendable if it means bringing in LeBron and/or Bosh.

Ben Wallace ended up being a stud for the Pistons but both him and Atkins did not have significant value as trade assets when that Hill deal went through. Keep in mind, Hill told Dumars he was going to Orlando before any sign and trade was brought up. Dumars isn't an idiot and realized he better get something for Grant before he let him go. Fortunately for him, one of those pieces ended up being a core player on a championship team for him. Likewise, Orlando was receptive to sign and trades to free up some room to possibly add Duncan to Hill and T-Mac, which they came pretty damn close to achieving.

The moves Orlando made from that off-season feel eerily similar to this free agency coming up. Duncan and Hill both had same representation and now we have just learned that Bosh, Wade, and LeBron are all under the same agency. You have to believe that one of the pitches that Donnie and Gabriel are working on is to bring all 3 of those stars in and throw the idea out there that they could create a dynasty in NY. As we have already seen, the Knicks will do anything possible to bring in superstars even if it means trading Gallo to shed Curry's contract and possibly bring in a 3rd star.

The point of this thread is simple. These superstars can tell us their intentions for next season right now or they can even do it the week before July 1st but we all should know from the above story that they can just as easily change their mind come July 1st. The temptation will certainly be there and if a guy like Tim Duncan (who had already won a title at that point) can come awfully close to jumping ship, you have to believe someone like LeBron, who loves the attention, can certainly be tempted to join another franchise. Will he do that? I'm not saying I know or that I think I know what LeBron will do but I don't think it's much of a stretch to say that there will be temptation. I think a lot of you guys forget how good Grant Hill was in the 90s. The guy was a superstar and he loved being in Detroit, living next to his mentor Joe Dumars. Yet, after telling Joe he was going to return to Detroit, it only took one trip to Orlando to change his mind.

That's why anyone that says that LeBron is staying or going most likely doesn't know crap at this point.

nah, i wasn't directing my comments at anyone in particular, just making a general statement... i think it's a stretch to believe we're going to land superstars w/o having to give something up... it's only really happened once before when Shaq went to LA... maybe Lebron follows in his footsteps, who knows, but i do know that Shaq was going to a team that was already pretty stacked with talent, a team that had already won 53 games the year prior & had made it to the playoffs... what do we have to offer a prospective bigname FA to play with? Gallo is a great young talent but will he be enough? is Wilson Chandler really as big of an asset to those outside of the Knicks' fanbase or are we overvalueing his potential drawing power? i think both those kids are nice young players but when you look at how sorry our team has looked the past few years it's hard to imagine why a bigname guy would want to come here to play unless we already have a star player in place.

i think the best shot at getting that player would have been through the draft... Gallo might become that star player but as yet he is not... which causes me to believe we're going to have to find a way to swing some kind of trade this summer using the cap space & put together a team that might appeal to a potential FA... i have questions as to whether Lebron would just decide to leave everything behind in CLE to come here with a bare bones roster in place & no high draft picks to improve with for the next 2 years & in the process leave the extra year of max salary on the table

also have to consider that if we do somehow manage to work out a sign & trade deal using whatever assets we have to land that star to build around, who will be left over? Toney Douglas & Bill Walker? if we had been able to hold onto those future picks & made good use of our #8 pick last summer, maybe it puts us in a much better position to get that done... guess all that's left to do now is to hope like hell that the drawing power of playing in NY is as big as some people seem to think it is.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Cosmic
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4/12/2010  7:59 AM
knicks1248 wrote:

I believe the NBA has it's influence on certain deals (kwame for Gasol) Then it's the big super star AGENTS that Broker some of the most lopsided deals we could imagine.

I firmly believe that the Mcgrady deal was a product of this same process. It's amazing that NY has gone this long with out a franchise Player and i believe STERN wants to change that, epsecially coming from ( like the mob would say ) your biggest earner..IF LBJ or WADE come to NY it won't just be for a championship BY far...

It does. I mean, it's their "product" and they do shape it. Watching the NBA today I feel like that kid again watching early 80s WWF. You knew it was fixed, didn't have proof, but knew it was, and still watched.

Same deal here.

It would be of interest for the Knicks to be good again. The market, the money, the sheer number of fans. How could they not make the Knicks good again?

http://popcornmachine.net/ A must-use tool for NBA stat junkies!
Cosmic
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4/12/2010  8:00 AM
TMS wrote:
Nalod wrote:After Lebron there is a formula of success that is not obvious but it requires a series of small moves that add up.

Mr Snickerdoodle could be a good fit for this team, and others that have been mentioned as smaller pieces.

How about we recieve draft picks along with expirings to rebuild that way if we can't get Lebron? It is like a do over in a sense but at least we had our shot, took it and then in a way rewound.

But me, you get some hard core pipe hitting motherphuchers and take Lebron to the top of the Empire state building but dangle his ass by the ankles until he signs. .

don't forget the pair of pliars & the blowtorch.

He isn't worth the trouble.

He's about as sharp and committed as McGrady.

He's a douchebag. If he's our douchebag next year? Great. But he's still a douchebag.

http://popcornmachine.net/ A must-use tool for NBA stat junkies!
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