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Cap space is a good thing... depending on the players you get
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TMS
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4/8/2010  8:55 AM
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/2010/04/08/2010-04-08_bird_says_walsh_ready_for_a_freeagent_splash.html

Larry Bird says Donnie Walsh has everything in place for New York Knicks to land LeBron James

BY Mitch Lawrence
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

Thursday, April 8th 2010, 4:00 AM

INDIANAPOLIS - Larry Bird has no idea where LeBron James, Dwyane Wade or any other marquee free agent will be playing next year, but the NBA icon thinks that his former Pacers boss, Donnie Walsh, has given the Knicks a chance to attract someone special in July.

"He has set himself up to have a great summer," Bird told the Daily News Wednesday, before his Pacers hosted the Knicks at Conseco Fieldhouse. "He's created a great opportunity to get some great players. Now, he might not get them all this year. But he's set that franchise up to get them, and you know that's a team that will spend the money."

As Knicks president, Walsh has carved out enough cap space over the last two seasons via trades to accommodate two marquee talents. His plan has not come pain-free, with the Knicks losing in Indiana last night, 113-105, for their 50th loss of the season and fourth 50-loss season in the last five years.

But Bird, who coached for Walsh and then succeeded him as the Pacers' top basketball executive when Walsh went to New York, thinks that Walsh has gone about rebuilding the right way.

"Next year, Donnie will have even more money because he'll be free of other contracts," he said, referring to Eddy Curry's $11.4 million coming off the books in July of 2011. "So over a period of time, he will have a lot of opportunities to attract players. And they're one team that will spend $90 million on salaries."

Bird can't go nearly that high as he continues to rebuild a team that still is recovering from some of Walsh's mistakes. The Pacers are guaranteed their fewest wins in a non-lockout season since 1989, despite having a payroll of $67 million. Their two highest-paid players, Troy Murphy and Mike Dunleavy Jr., who were acquired by Walsh in 2007, have yet to produce a .500 season, much less get the Pacers in the playoffs.

While NBA owners want to reduce salaries in the next collective bargaining agreement, commissioner David Stern has said that he is looking to increase revenue-sharing among the 30 teams to give small-market teams a better chance competing for talent against major market teams such as the Knicks and Lakers.

even tho Troy Murphy & Mike Dunleavy were acquired via trades, DW needs to be very particular about the players he acquires this summer... if he uses up the cap on 2nd & 3rd tier players that won't elevate the team's play, it could potentially set the franchise back a number of years... you have to hope he's learned from his past mistakes in Indiana.

my worry is that for example, if he goes & signs David Lee & Joe Johnson this summer to play with Wilson & Gallo, is the resultant team going to be that much better than what the Pacers have had to play with in recent years? (Murphy, Granger, Dunleavy, Tinsley, Daniels, Foster, Ford, etc.)... obviously this is just a hypothetical worst case scenario, but for the Knicks to drastically improve & make some noise in the playoffs, DW needs to make sure to put together the right mix of talent & hopefully at least 1 of them is a guy we can build this team around.

that's not to say i don't think David Lee or Joe Johnson can't ever be part of a winning formula, but IMO it's going to take much, much more than just those 2 guys & Gallo, Wilson, etc. to get us to where we're looking to get to.

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Cosmic
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4/8/2010  9:14 AM
Everything is a crap shoot in this league. There is no perfect formula.

I will say regardless of what happens this summer that past team we had absolutely had to be torn down. There was no adding to that mess to make it better. There just wasn't.

As to cap space I still think some forget it's not all about signing a FA. Yes, it's nice to be able to do so, but you can just as easily absorb a player under contract that is on the outs from another team.

It won't be tough to build a new team. The question is only really who is willing to come and how good are they across the board.

Is it Bron and Bosh?
Is it Boozer and Johnson?
Is it Baron and Brand?

No, I'm not making pleas here, just stating examples as to what can happen.

For the first time in a long time we have something that is very important in this league: FLEXIBILITY.


You combine this new found flexibility with the *FINALLY!!!* torn down roster that had spent 8 years failing to be patched?

And I'm on board with the plan.

Now let's just see where it goes and not wig out if guys like Bron and Bosh re-sign at home. They may be top prizes but they aren't the only players in the NBA.

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Marv
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4/8/2010  9:25 AM
Cosmic wrote:Everything is a crap shoot in this league.

that's another name for the SSOL offense.
TMS
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4/8/2010  9:48 AM
Cosmic wrote:Everything is a crap shoot in this league. There is no perfect formula.

I will say regardless of what happens this summer that past team we had absolutely had to be torn down. There was no adding to that mess to make it better. There just wasn't.

As to cap space I still think some forget it's not all about signing a FA. Yes, it's nice to be able to do so, but you can just as easily absorb a player under contract that is on the outs from another team.

yes, i realize there's no perfect formula, but don't hold your breathe for any significant moves to be made via trade unless it involves a sign & trade of D Lee... i doubt we get much value out of Eddy Curry's expiring contract, at least not until the trade deadline next year.

Is it Bron and Bosh?
Is it Boozer and Johnson?
Is it Baron and Brand?

there's really only 1 acceptable formula out of the 3 you just cited in my eyes, which is the entire point of this thread to begin with... depending on the players we get, the cap space can be a good thing or it could come back & bite us in the ass if we use it up on the wrong players... there's any number of hypotheticals we can run through here but you get the point... DW needs to make sure he doesn't go out & lock up another Troy Murphy-Mike Dunleavy type tandem at big dollars & bank on that to take his team to the next level because it's not a good formula for success.

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Allanfan20
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4/8/2010  9:59 AM
Sign Lee to a contract starting at 9 or 10, get Camby at 5 for 2 or 3 years, see if you can nab someone like Livingston for cheap, call it a day. That's if LeBron or Wade aren't available of course.
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nixluva
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4/8/2010  10:45 AM
TMS what about a team like New Orleans that will be at 73 mil next year! We could help them tremendously by taking guys off their hands. It could be that DW isn't even serious about Lebron but instead looking at CP3. He could already have talked to NO to test their interest in such a deal. Don't underestimate how much a team like that would desire to decrease their cap and not have to pay all that luxury tax. They'd owe much more than the 73 mil adding in the Luxury tax. You think DW wouldn't take Peja for a year and maybe Posey or West in order to get CP3?
GodSaveTheKnicks
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4/8/2010  11:00 AM
nixluva wrote:TMS what about a team like New Orleans that will be at 73 mil next year! We could help them tremendously by taking guys off their hands. It could be that DW isn't even serious about Lebron but instead looking at CP3. He could already have talked to NO to test their interest in such a deal. Don't underestimate how much a team like that would desire to decrease their cap and not have to pay all that luxury tax. They'd owe much more than the 73 mil adding in the Luxury tax. You think DW wouldn't take Peja for a year and maybe Posey or West in order to get CP3?

There was a great post on one of the Knicks blogs featured on this page about how a LOT of the teams in position to get Wall already have PGs that will not take backup roles..perhaps FA isn't the only way...

Let's try to elevate the level of discourse in this byeetch. Please
TMS
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4/8/2010  11:14 AM
CP3? for what? Wilson Chandler? for D Lee and Gallo maybe if we also take back Peja. that's probably the only scenario i can imagine, but personally i don't think MDA will trade Gallo anytime soon.
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iSergio
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4/8/2010  11:31 AM
Mike D'Antoni is an idiot if he wouldn't trade Danilo Gallinari for Chris Paul.
nixluva
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4/8/2010  11:40 AM
TMS wrote:CP3? for what? Wilson Chandler? for D Lee and Gallo maybe if we also take back Peja. that's probably the only scenario i can imagine, but personally i don't think MDA will trade Gallo anytime soon.

Dude for NO it's not so much about who they take back but how much salary they send away! It's about the 19 or 20 mil over the cap they'll be and all that luxury tax, plus not having anyway to improve their team. We could help them get under the cap. Saving a team over 20 mil is not a small thing. I forget what the luxury tax penalty is but right now they're at least 19 mil over and once you add in the tax penalty that is a huge burden. I'm positive they would at least listen to a deal that would save them over 20 mil next season plus millions more in salary over the next few years of contract they'd be sending away.

EnySpree
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4/8/2010  11:48 AM
How they gonna throw Donnie under the bus about that dunlevy/Murphy trade? It was made due to the that incident at the palace in Detroit. Murphy and dunlevy have been hurt...rest of the team sucked too. And what has bird been doing this whole time? Sticking his thumbs in his ass? Bird is in charge and has been for some years now. Smh
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bitty41
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4/8/2010  11:56 AM
Everything is a crap shoot in this league. There is no perfect formula.

Is it really a cap shoot? There is three primary ways of creating a successful franchise: solid draft picks, smart trades, and flexibility. Donnie has thus far been a mixed bag on draft picks, his trades have mostly sucked, and our flexibility is good as so far to sign players outright but we still lack the assets for S/T which is how many free-agents in this league are moved.

TMS
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4/8/2010  12:08 PM
nixluva wrote:
TMS wrote:CP3? for what? Wilson Chandler? for D Lee and Gallo maybe if we also take back Peja. that's probably the only scenario i can imagine, but personally i don't think MDA will trade Gallo anytime soon.

Dude for NO it's not so much about who they take back but how much salary they send away! It's about the 19 or 20 mil over the cap they'll be and all that luxury tax, plus not having anyway to improve their team. We could help them get under the cap. Saving a team over 20 mil is not a small thing. I forget what the luxury tax penalty is but right now they're at least 19 mil over and once you add in the tax penalty that is a huge burden. I'm positive they would at least listen to a deal that would save them over 20 mil next season plus millions more in salary over the next few years of contract they'd be sending away.

they would consider an offer of wilson chandler about as long as it would take them to hang up the phone, right after the laughter subsided. Wilson is a nice player but come on... simma down nah

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bitty41
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4/8/2010  12:10 PM
Why is everyone hellbent on getting CP3? He is constantly hurt and has had only one really good playoff run now Deron Williams I could understand but CP3 is injury-prone like crazy.
nixluva
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4/8/2010  12:17 PM
bitty41 wrote:
Everything is a crap shoot in this league. There is no perfect formula.

Is it really a cap shoot? There is three primary ways of creating a successful franchise: solid draft picks, smart trades, and flexibility. Donnie has thus far been a mixed bag on draft picks, his trades have mostly sucked, and our flexibility is good as so far to sign players outright but we still lack the assets for S/T which is how many free-agents in this league are moved.

IMO Donnie drafted well. No scrubs! In terms of S/T our biggest asset is being able to take back more salary than we give. Not every team is looking for picks. As I just pointed out New Orleans is way over the cap and I'm sure they'd like to be in our shoes. If they send us CP3 and Peja that's about 29 mil and we send them TD n Chan. They clear not only luxury tax but future cap space for a run at 2011 FA Class. Not that this would be the deal but it's just a possible scenario.

Maybe DW does a SnT of Lee n Chan for resigned Bosh.

TMS
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4/8/2010  12:21 PM
EnySpree wrote:How they gonna throw Donnie under the bus about that dunlevy/Murphy trade? It was made due to the that incident at the palace in Detroit. Murphy and dunlevy have been hurt...rest of the team sucked too. And what has bird been doing this whole time? Sticking his thumbs in his ass? Bird is in charge and has been for some years now. Smh

ur right they made the trade to change the image of the team, but Murph and Dunleavy have not been hurt the entire time. both saw a good amount of games together after the trade and they had Granger and a solid core of talent including Foster & Daniels.

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Cosmic
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4/8/2010  4:56 PM
To be honest with you all I have no idea what we will do this summer and have no realistic expectations.

I do know we stopped doing business the Layden and Isiah way.

I do know we therefore decided to tear down the team and start over.

And I know we are now at this point of a nearly clean slate (about as clean as possible).

We all know who the coveted free agents are. We all know the possibilities they could come here or go elsewhere or just stay where they are.

Not really worth it to me to hash things out beyond that point (who to sign, for how much, etc).

I'm just sitting back and waiting to see what we do before I get any real opinion on the future.

Can't comment on what has not happened. Can only comment on how we got here and I approve of Walsh's plan up until today.

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TMS
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4/8/2010  6:26 PM
when Isiah took over for Layden he chose to clean house of Layden's acquisitions and brought in his own guys. GMs tend to do this when they take over a new regime. the difference is Isiah took on salary and Walsh has cleared salary. Lee and Wilson are the last leftovers from the Isiah regime. what he does this summer will determine his legacy but as of now he hasn't gotten any better results than Isiah was able to get. he needs to be smart about how he utilizes the cap this summer. if we don't make the playoffs for a 3rd consecutive year under Walsh then i don't see how anyone can consider him an upgrade. as much as i hate the mess Isiah left behind, he did at least get us into the post season, no matter how embarassing a series it was.
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nixluva
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4/8/2010  6:52 PM
TMS wrote:when Isiah took over for Layden he chose to clean house of Layden's acquisitions and brought in his own guys. GMs tend to do this when they take over a new regime. the difference is Isiah took on salary and Walsh has cleared salary. Lee and Wilson are the last leftovers from the Isiah regime. what he does this summer will determine his legacy but as of now he hasn't gotten any better results than Isiah was able to get. he needs to be smart about how he utilizes the cap this summer. if we don't make the playoffs for a 3rd consecutive year under Walsh then i don't see how anyone can consider him an upgrade. as much as i hate the mess Isiah left behind, he did at least get us into the post season, no matter how embarassing a series it was.

Zeke was really TRYING to win, whereas winning was always secondary to DW's plan to clear cap space. No deals that could really have made the team better were made. Most of the deals were for the absolute bare minimum to fill a spot with a guy that was on a 1 yr deal or would take a short term contract. Most of the time those guys aren't very good. There was a small chance the team could've done better, but everything had to go right for that to happen and it didn't.

I think there's absolutely no chance we don't make enough improvement in the team to get to the playoffs. I don't think the roster would be that hard to improve enough in order to get into the playoffs. However that's not really what i'm looking for. I want to see a team that can get to the point of being a real threat in the playoffs. Maybe not make the finals in yr one, but at least give you the feeling that in 2-3 years they could play in the finals. I don't see DW building a 7 or 8 seed.

TMS
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4/8/2010  7:00 PM
I'm with u i dont want to starphuch in a desperate attempt to sneak in as a bottom seed, but after 3 years i do want to see results. playoffs would be a bare minimum but like u i want us to put together a roster that we can build upon to get to the next level.
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Cap space is a good thing... depending on the players you get

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